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Post by hitnrun017 on Jul 22, 2008 17:30:38 GMT -5
Is death the only thing that can make us feel? Could be true for some people, but not for me. There are SO many moments on Joss' shows that make me cry like a little girl that doesn't involve death. I mean, I cried when characters died the FIRST time I saw it, but the only death that STILL makes me cry is Joyce, and sometimes Fred and Wesley. But most of the deaths don't have an emotional impact on my anymore, meanwhile, I STILL cry when Buffy cries in The Prom, or when Oz leaves Willow in Wild at Heart. |
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deathisyourgift
Ensouled Vampire
to read makes our speaking English good!
Timothy Dalton should win an Oscar and beat Sean Connery over the head with it!!-Andrew[Mo0:37]
Posts: 1,166
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Post by deathisyourgift on Jul 23, 2008 14:01:02 GMT -5
One of my favorite relationship resolutions of the Buffyverse is Buffy and Riley's, because Riley realized that Buffy didn't love him, made his decision, and left. Then after Buffy had a good talkin' to by Xander, she realized she was being a complete dolt in letting him go, and ran after him only to arrive just miliseconds too late to catch him. Death, schmeath. THAT relationship was drama. High five to that, brandonr. I love/hate how Joss dealt with Riley's leaving. Love in the way that it totally was a wake-up call to Buffy in all her 'mightier-than-thou' attitudes and her self-centered personality (which definitely comes with being the sole protector of humanity, but really Buffy, self involved much?). Hate because I really loved this relationship. The first time I watched it evolve, I hated Riley, he wasn't as exciting as the Angel relationship, and then when Spuffy happened, that was all OMG IS SHE REALLY THAT DIRTY!?! As I watched the dvd's, I grew to really enjoy the slight normality of the Buffy Riley dynamic. He was the best thing she'd ever get, and she still pushed him away. I hate that he left, but I love the story, if that makes any sense. PS-the discussion going on in this thread is awesome; I look forward to reading more replies, fyi  |
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Post by cosmosmallbottom on Jul 23, 2008 19:32:58 GMT -5
mmmm good topic!
There is a macho saying I know "its only brave if your scared" I think when joss puts death or loss in his plots he is really trying to say something about love and the nature of Bravery. There has to be real danger to the characters or you wouldnt see the characters as brave.
When a character is killed most of the time they are doing something brave but the motivation for the bravery is the love that character has for another person or a idea. There are no Characters in Joss's shows that are just written as "squarejawed hero type, no weaknesses, save kitten from tree" they are all well rounded with weaknesses and no particular desire to put themselves in dangerous situations. When they do brave things its motivated by the desire to save others especially the people they love thats what makes them Brave.
I think Self Sacrifice motivated by love is Joss's real favourite topic When a character willingly sacrifices themselves for love ie buffy for Dawn on Glorys tower or Irish Connor in Angel. It is a illustration of the power of love and one of the reasons i love his work.
The two big Deaths in Buffy were Joyce and Tara again the deaths were used as a indicator for the power of love. Willow loved Tara so much that the pain she felt was so bad that she would want to destoy the planet, but what saved her? the love she and Zander shared. Joyce dieing ( the best written Tv death ever) was necessary for the Grief to drive Buffy to a darker place.
The death is not the point its what motivated the death thats whats powerfull.
There are alot of Sci-fi / Fantasy shows that are more Melo-drama than Drama ie; charmed Smallville. Thats why we are all still on these forums talking about a show that finished years ago it was human, it was real and it was genuenlly powerfull.
Its Joss's world we just watch it!
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Post by Angelsgirl on Jul 25, 2008 9:55:55 GMT -5
There is only one thing in this world that is inevitable and that is death. Everyone on the planet can relate to it, which is why I think its a way of keeping people together in a strange sort of way. It is harder to try to relate to different relationship issues if you haven't experienced it yourself, whereas we all know about death. its just one of those unfortunate facts of life.
You could also look at it from a Tarot point of view (btw annoyed that they cancelled the cards!), death doesn't mean the end but the birth of something new. Tara dying gave birth to Dark Willow, Fred dying gave birth to Illyria etc. etc.
The one death that still p's me off is Fred's. I sooo wanted her and Wesley to be happy, they deserved it but at the same time it gave Amy Acker the chance to play a bad a**, which was good for her career and probably one of the reasons she got her part on Alias.
I was upset that Cordy died but it wasn't as bad cos her and Angel hadn't actually gotten together. Thankfully we did get to see them together in Waiting in the Wings, You're Welcome and of course Angel's dream in Soulless.
As for the Kennedy/Willow relationship, I would be more than happy for them to kill Kennedy off. I don't like her and I especially don't like how she's been drawn in Season 8. They've made her out to be sexy or something with all that swishy hair etc. I will be really upset if Joss uses the death of Kennedy to bring back Dark Willow, I mean 1) been there, done that and 2) its Kennedy!!! she doesn't care about kennedy half as much as she cared about Tara!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 25, 2008 10:27:13 GMT -5
I will be really upset if Joss uses the death of Kennedy to bring back Dark Willow, I mean 1) been there, done that and 2) its Kennedy!!! she doesn't care about kennedy half as much as she cared about Tara! A part of me wants to yell; "Hello, we don't know what they feel for each other, it was 18months between season 7 and 8" and the other part is reminding me that Willow is probably cheating, again.... And yes, I know, wrong thread... |
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Post by Angelsgirl on Jul 25, 2008 10:37:27 GMT -5
Ok, I want to respond to that but I'm not going to cos its totally off topic!
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XanderHarris
Potential Slayer
I've been unreasonable, because I've lost all reason.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 125
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Post by XanderHarris on Jul 30, 2008 1:53:57 GMT -5
You are kinda right. I can't think of any couple in the Slayerverse that lasted for longer than 1-2 years. Well, but it would become kinda boring If e.g. Willow and Oz would've stayed together till now.
Plus, it is a good way to keep the cast fluid.
And I am confiding in Joss to make the Wes/Fred-Love come out right. There is no other way for him to obtain my approval but by giving them their redemption - be it in life or death.
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ded1
Rogue Demon Hunter
The Zombie Lord
BRAINS!!![Mo0:8]
Posts: 468
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Post by ded1 on Jul 30, 2008 18:59:17 GMT -5
You are kinda right. I can't think of any couple in the Slayerverse that lasted for longer than 1-2 years. Well, but it would become kinda boring If e.g. Willow and Oz would've stayed together till now. Plus, it is a good way to keep the cast fluid Actually,Xander and Anya lasted 4 years(3 If you don't include S7,because they aren't technically together)Their first date was the prom in season 3. |
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XanderHarris
Potential Slayer
I've been unreasonable, because I've lost all reason.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 125
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Post by XanderHarris on Jul 31, 2008 6:56:43 GMT -5
You are kinda right. I can't think of any couple in the Slayerverse that lasted for longer than 1-2 years. Well, but it would become kinda boring If e.g. Willow and Oz would've stayed together till now. Plus, it is a good way to keep the cast fluid Actually,Xander and Anya lasted 4 years(3 If you don't include S7,because they aren't technically together)Their first date was the prom in season 3. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot. But even with them - tragic ending. |
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