Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Feb 11, 2009 10:49:41 GMT -5
Up to the point where he makes that choice, Ben was a good guy who tried denying Glory her victory. He just succumbed to the inevitability of fighting a hellgod (yet again, human) at the end. Hmm, not sure I'd go so far as to call him a "good guy". He was always kinda grey, morally. I mean, he summoned the Queller demon which killed a bunch of innocent people, nearly Joyce as well. People who would have been returned to normal upon Glory's defeat. Ben should've killed himself. He knew the threat Glory posed to the universe, and should've sacrificed himself for the greater good. Look at Dawn, she was a terrified fourteen-year-old, but at the end of the day, she was going to jump off that tower without a second thought if it meant saving the world (a fact she does not get enough credit for!). Not saying Ben's a bad character, he's actually pretty interesting. But "good guy"? Barely. |
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 11, 2009 13:11:50 GMT -5
Up to the point where he makes that choice, Ben was a good guy who tried denying Glory her victory. He just succumbed to the inevitability of fighting a hellgod (yet again, human) at the end. Hmm, not sure I'd go so far as to call him a "good guy". He was always kinda grey, morally. I mean, he summoned the Queller demon which killed a bunch of innocent people, nearly Joyce as well. People who would have been returned to normal upon Glory's defeat. Ben should've killed himself. He knew the threat Glory posed to the universe, and should've sacrificed himself for the greater good. Look at Dawn, she was a terrified fourteen-year-old, but at the end of the day, she was going to jump off that tower without a second thought if it meant saving the world (a fact she does not get enough credit for!). Not saying Ben's a bad character, he's actually pretty interesting. But "good guy"? Barely. Im not going to say that Ben falls in the catergory of Good Guy as to how we define a good guy in the Buffyverse, but he's more good than evil. He summoned the Queller demon, unknowing of the humans return to normal once Glory was defeated, to take away any attention to what Glory was doing so he could attempt to have a normal life. Saying that he didnt care about people is techincally wrong because he clearly describes why he enjoys being a doctor, to help people and to be there in their ups and downs. In the end, I think the only reason he really succombed to Glorys bidding was because the magical tie that held them together was fading and soon, Ben would be lost. Had this not happened, im sure he wouldnt have tried to kill Dawn. |
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Post by wenxina on Feb 11, 2009 13:46:22 GMT -5
Up to the point where he makes that choice, Ben was a good guy who tried denying Glory her victory. He just succumbed to the inevitability of fighting a hellgod (yet again, human) at the end. Hmm, not sure I'd go so far as to call him a "good guy". He was always kinda grey, morally. I mean, he summoned the Queller demon which killed a bunch of innocent people, nearly Joyce as well. People who would have been returned to normal upon Glory's defeat. Ben should've killed himself. He knew the threat Glory posed to the universe, and should've sacrificed himself for the greater good. Look at Dawn, she was a terrified fourteen-year-old, but at the end of the day, she was going to jump off that tower without a second thought if it meant saving the world (a fact she does not get enough credit for!). Not saying Ben's a bad character, he's actually pretty interesting. But "good guy"? Barely. Maybe I should have been more specific. Ben was as much a "good guy" as the Scoobies were, given their own grayness at the point. Giles had talked about killing Dawn for the greater good, Buffy had killed people in self-defense, etc. Ben didn't sacrifice himself (i.e. kill himself) for the greater good, but he was trying to make amends by becoming a doctor (in of itself, a noble profession) to help others. And hey, Dawn's sister is the Slayer... girl knows a thing or two about self-sacrifice. And btw, do we know for a fact that the people Glory mind-sucked actually returned to normal after Glory went poof? Tara was lucky that Willow restored her sanity before Glory died, but I've yet to see conclusive proof that the other victims fared as well. |
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 11, 2009 13:50:13 GMT -5
And btw, do we know for a fact that the people Glory mind-sucked actually returned to normal after Glory went poof? Tara was lucky that Willow restored her sanity before Glory died, but I've yet to see conclusive proof that the other victims fared as well. Thats a very intresting observation and one that I dont think has been discussed. |
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Feb 11, 2009 15:47:29 GMT -5
I believe that it was definitly the right thing for Giles to do (killing Ben).
It could have been 1 year, 2, 3 or more but eventually Glory would have been back (if not for the key then just to reek havock).
Dont get me wrong, I really like Ben (and think he is really cute lol) but he had to be killed and I think Giles is the only one that would do it.
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Post by wenxina on Feb 11, 2009 18:12:34 GMT -5
The problem with Olaf's hammer... it's not Mjolnir. Now that hammer is supposed to be able to kill gods... For the idealistic Slayer, easier to kill a god than a human being.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Feb 12, 2009 1:05:40 GMT -5
Ben should've killed himself. He knew the threat Glory posed to the universe, and should've sacrificed himself for the greater good. Look at Dawn, she was a terrified fourteen-year-old, but at the end of the day, she was going to jump off that tower without a second thought if it meant saving the world (a fact she does not get enough credit for!). Very very much my thoughts exactly. Both on Ben as well as Dawn. She really showed a "Buffyesque" quality in how she was about to jump into the portal without a second thought. Poor Dawnie. |
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Feb 12, 2009 8:31:05 GMT -5
Ben should've killed himself. He knew the threat Glory posed to the universe, and should've sacrificed himself for the greater good. Look at Dawn, she was a terrified fourteen-year-old, but at the end of the day, she was going to jump off that tower without a second thought if it meant saving the world (a fact she does not get enough credit for!). Very very much my thoughts exactly. Both on Ben as well as Dawn. She really showed a "Buffyesque" quality in how she was about to jump into the portal without a second thought. Poor Dawnie. It bugs me how that moment is so overlooked. Buffy has to physically stop her from jumping, IIRC. Dawn really showed her true colors there. Btw, cool avatar! |
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 12, 2009 13:11:56 GMT -5
Yes, Dawn showed her true colors but I think that with all she had gone through in the past months plus with the fact that she isnt techinically real and everything she knows is a lie, I think that played into it as well.
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