Giles Killing Ben

[ladyparasyte]

Ya know, I got to thinking about the whole Willow getting a hard time killing people and Anya killing people but it seems like no one ever gave Giles any crap for killing Ben. A human. A human that Buffy deliberately let live. Willow kills Warren and he takes her away to England to teach her how to control herself. Again...a lot of hypocrisy in this group.
Wow, I'm such a negative nellie lately.

[matthewblake]

mikey said:

Giles couldn't trust that he'd keep Glory under control, of course. He had to be taken out. Because of his past, he had the balls to do it. It was heroic and in my opinion one of Giles' best moments.

I completely agree. He did what he had to.

[Lukee]

I think its totally different to Willow killing and i think Anya's killing is totally different to any of them.

Giles killed him because he was part Glory, she could come back at any time and kill them he had to do it for the world if not Buffy.

[ladyparasyte]

It's like Willow chose to kill Warren who chose to murder his ex,intended to kill Buffy, accidentally killing Tara. Honestly, Willow did the world a service by killing Warren. Now, I don't agree with her attack on Andrew and Jonathon for the record.
It's like....Warren deserved to die, and I guess in my eyes...Ben did not.
I understand the greater good theory was Giles reasoning. That does make sense.
I have mixed feelings.

[matthewblake]

ladyparasyte said:

It's like Willow chose to kill Warren who chose to murder his ex,intended to kill Buffy, accidentally killing Tara. Honestly, Willow did the world a service by killing Warren. Now, I don't agree with her attack on Andrew and Jonathon for the record.
It's like....Warren deserved to die, and I guess in my eyes...Ben did not.
I understand the greater good theory was Giles reasoning. That does make sense.
I have mixed feelings.

Warren was human, so he should have been put in jail.
Giles killed Ben to prevent Glory's return.
There's a big difference between each death.

[Lukee]

matthewblake said:

ladyparasyte said:

It's like Willow chose to kill Warren who chose to murder his ex,intended to kill Buffy, accidentally killing Tara. Honestly, Willow did the world a service by killing Warren. Now, I don't agree with her attack on Andrew and Jonathon for the record.
It's like....Warren deserved to die, and I guess in my eyes...Ben did not.
I understand the greater good theory was Giles reasoning. That does make sense.
I have mixed feelings.

Warren was human, so he should have been put in jail.
Giles killed Ben to prevent Glory's return.
There's a big difference between each death.

I agree.
The Trio could have been locked up for what they did, Warren would have got life. But Willow chose to kill him.
What Giles did was for the greater good. Ben wasn't really pure human he had a god packed inside him a strong one that could best Buffy at times.
If Giles had let him life Glory could have come back seek revenge on Buffy and Dawn etc or maybe even bring about the end of the world again. Giles did the right thing.
Like he asked Buffy in S7 if she had to let (or kill ?) Dawn or some one die for the greater good would she and she said yes because it would be for the greater good.
Giles did the right thing.

[ladyparasyte]

I'm not saying there isn't a difference. I just remember Giles giving Willow this big speech about actions and consequences.
Honestly, if someone killed your most dear loved one and you went out to give them a taste of their own medicine. I wouldn't look down upon you for it. Not saying it is right or wrong.
I am not condoning murder either.
Just saying...from Willow's perspective, Warren was evil and he probably would have done damage to others if he had not died. He used magic alot as well.
Giles had his reasons to. I'm not saying he was right or wrong.
Just kind of saying it's interesting how the gang's view of what's okay and what's not,who should be reprimanded and who shouldn't is kind of imbalanced.
Morality seems to kind of be all over the places with the Scoobies.

[buffysmglover]

matthewblake said:

mikey said:

Giles couldn't trust that he'd keep Glory under control, of course. He had to be taken out. Because of his past, he had the balls to do it. It was heroic and in my opinion one of Giles' best moments.

I completely agree. He did what he had to.

COMPLETELY

[henzINNIT]

I love Giles, and this moments is one of those huge reasons why.

[Giant Michael]

Between this and the 'Death to Gigli!' thread, you're all so... blood thirsty!

I think the same thing applies here; I don't think Giles killing Ben is a heroic act, more an example of Giles doing what he has to do in order to win the day; or, as is more often the case, what he thinks he has to do to win the day. It calls back the argument they have at the beginning of the episode where Giles tells Buffy that she'll have to kill Dawn. I think there are a lot of interesting issues here that I'm hoping will be dealt with in the comics; not necessarily Giles killing Ben, but the idea that one person should be given control - moral control - over who is good and evil; who lives and who dies.

Fundamentally, though, it's an example of Giles' devotion to Buffy; he kills Ben to protect Buffy, so that she doesn't have the blood on her hands.

MB x

[Jinxieman]

We also have to remember that Willow didn't go to England with Giles because she killed Warren, it was because of the Dark magic that she used at the end of season 6. She didn't just use dark magic she absorbed it into herself, there is no way to get it out as we see through flashes throughout season 7. She needed to learn how to live with this darkness in her so that it didn't consume her and make her completely evil. She was like an addict and she had to learn how be in her new state so that she didn't destroy the world...that is a little different than anyone else on the show who killed someone else, accidental or on purpose.

Besides, we don't even know if anyone else knew that Giles killed Ben. He did it quietly while everyone else was fighting elsewhere. They could have all thought Ben died as a result of what Buffy did to Glory.

[dangerousbydesign]

I agree, Giles got balls lol

[Gothik]

I tend to side with Willow on the whole killing Warren thing. The guy was a sick, twisted freak and a danger to anyone that got in his way. He deserved to die. Yeah, he could have been locked up but I'm an eye for an eye kinda guy. If someone killed the girl I loved I'd be out for that kind of justice too.

Giles did what he had to do to keep the whole world safe. Glory could very easily have come back and she would stop at nothing to find another way back to her home, maybe next time without anyone around to stop her. Ben's life was an acceptable loss.

Anya's killings were not about true justice or about acceptable loss. Her actions led to the deaths of people that, whilst maybe not the nicest people in the world, didn't deserve to die. The only saving grace she had was that she came to understand that what she was doing was wrong and her humanity managed to fight passed the demon side of her personality, which says a lot. Even so, I couldn't defend Anya in the same way that I would defend Willow and Giles.

[nikkifae]

jinxieman said:

Besides, we don't even know if anyone else knew that Giles killed Ben. He did it quietly while everyone else was fighting elsewhere. They could have all thought Ben died as a result of what Buffy did to Glory.

Exactly... we as an audience know what happened.. but (and I maybe hazy here) they dont really talk about what happened to Ben after it all went down, everyone was pretty focused on buffy being dead. Do the rest of the scoobies even know hes dead?

We all might understand and even agree with willows feelings towards Warren. Doesnt mean she has the right to decided who dies. Dont get me wrong was so happy when she 'killed' Warren but think she should have found justice another way.

[Gothik]

nikkifae said:

We all might understand and even agree with willows feelings towards Warren. Doesnt mean she has the right to decided who dies. Dont get me wrong was so happy when she 'killed' Warren but think she should have found justice another way.

For me, she absolutely had the right to decide. Warren's death was the only true justice. Was it lawful? Who cares? It was right.

Now, had she killed Andrew or Jonathon, that would be wrong. They were annoying (to the point where they almost deserved death ) but they had nothing to do with killing Tara. Warren, though, got what he deserved.

[Giant Michael]

gothik said:

For me, she absolutely had the right to decide. Warren's death was the only true justice. Was it lawful? Who cares? It was right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're all very bloodthirsty! Almost to the point where I get worried, in fact.

I think the whole point of who Willow was at the end of season six - and what we saw of her redemption in season seven - proves that killing Warren was the exact opposite of the right thing to do.

MB x

[Gothik]

michaelbush said:

gothik said:

For me, she absolutely had the right to decide. Warren's death was the only true justice. Was it lawful? Who cares? It was right.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you're all very bloodthirsty! Almost to the point where I get worried, in fact.

I think the whole point of who Willow was at the end of season six - and what we saw of her redemption in season seven - proves that killing Warren was the exact opposite of the right thing to do.

MB x

Or maybe the attempting to kill Andrew and Jonathon and then going to try and destroy the entire world was what Giles and the others considered wrong.

I seriously doubt that anyone would have patted Willow on the back and said well done after what she did to Warren but I tend to think that if things had ended there and Willow had kept the magick under control then the gang would have basically understood. They would have been shocked and more than a little worried, given the events of the previous year where Willow had already shown herself to be out of control, but not one of them would have lost any sleep over Warren being dead. The problem came from what she did next.

[henzINNIT]

I can't remember a source (though I think it may have been the DVD commentary), but I recall hearing that Giles was once going to reveal to Buffy that he killed Ben, in thier cemetary conversation in the episode "Lies My Parent's Told Me". As this never came to pass, it's fair to assume he never told her.

[commandercool]

I'm almost positive it was the commentary. Those are so much nerdy fun.

[alycat7]

i doubt that giles even told anyone that he killed Ben. the gang did have other things to worry about at the time (buffy's death) so they probably didn't notice that ben was dead.