Origin of The Slayer

[Nicholas]

I would like to discuss with everyone exactly everything there is to know about the Slayer itself and where it comes from.

I obviously know all about the Shadow Men but it was also implied that when The First Slayer was imbued with the heart, soul, and power of the demon, she lost her humanity. Wouldnt this make her evil?



And I realize that the Guardians forged the Scythe, but how exactly does it have a mystical link to the Slayer line?

[Skytteflickan88]

Not all demons are evil as we've seen, so it's fair to assume that she wouldn't have been evil. But who knows, maybe she killed demons for fun, not because of what's right. That would make her evil. But then again, a lot of humans are evil. Look at Lindsey. Sure he likes kids, but he's more evil than several demosn we've seen on the show. Most of them had to kill humans to feed, not to get to get a raise.

And about the guardians and the schyte, I'm guessing that the scythe might be imbued with the same kind of demon the slayers are. That's why Faith and Buffy felt like it belonged to them.

[Saturn 5]

The Shadowmen 'knocked up' the first Slayer with the demon essence they drew from the ground and it's passed down from Slayer to Slayer over the generations. Ironically the Slayer, the symbol of feminist power seems to be derived from a form of rape. The Shadowmen chose a girl to recieve the power because they figure she'd be easier to control, which I guess she was until modern women Buffy and Faith come along
As for the Scythe it seems to have been made by either the Shadowmen and/or the white-haired female Guardians as a failsafe for the time when she'd need it, much like the box provided to Robin Wood's mum

[wenxina]

The Scythe was made by the Guardians, an order of women. The Shadowmen had no clue about its creation, hence no mention of it ever by the Watchers. Not even an urban legend about it. How it's connected to the Slayer hasn't been conclusively stated, but Skytte's suggestion that it's possible imbued with the essence of the same kind of demon seems plausible. Probably one of those "tempered in the blood of a demon" sorta deals.

I will point out that it's a stretch to say that the first Slayer lost her humanity. Each Slayer is the same, in the sense that the essence is passed on to the next. If Buffy wasn't quite human, Spike should have been able to hurt her without any problems at all from the chip. However, it's not until Buffy returns from the dead in S6 that Spike's able to hurt her. Meaning that Slayers are in fact human, but with a demon essence stuck in for good measure. Nevermind that Buffy has never acted inhuman in any way whatsoever.

I find the "humans=good, demons=bad" dichotomy extremely simplistic, and not representative of the show at all. I'll just jump to the most obvious example: S6. It's humans that are the villains in this season, not because of what they are, but what they do. The Trio are human, and yet, they do horrible things to people. Dark Willow is human, and she flayed a person, not to mention hurt her friends and tried to end the world. On the other hand... we have Clem. Sure the man eats kittens, but in perspective, that makes him less than evil. How about Anya? In the climax of the season, after Willow succumbs to the Big Bad of the season (i.e. real-life), Anya still helps the Scoobies. Yes, she tried to get the rest to wish horrible things onto Xander, but when it came down to the big issues, she played her part as best she could, even allowing for empathy (a very positive human trait).
And let's not forget Doyle and Cordy (half-demon), and Whistler (can't remember what he was exactly).

[siredbyspike]

I don't think that being imbued with demon strength made the first slayer lose her humanity, it just made her more of a "beast", or demon physically in order to fight them. I think that if anything, it kind of makes the slayers more human to be linked to mankind and having to protect them and fight for them. In that way it gives them more compassion and empathy for suffering than your average person, and more love for the few people they get to get close to (like watchers).
I also agree with Xi about how Buffy isn't about demons=bad humans=good, Lorne is a perfect example of that. And as for the Scythe i also agree with Xi and Sky that it was probably tempered in the blood of demons or something like that, and is a part of the esscence of their power. Most likely it would be a blood link as they can sense it and that explains how they activated the potentials through it. Also karma for you for making this thread, cause i am very interested in hearing what everyone thinks of this subject too!

[Angelsgirl]

Maybe i'm looking at this wrong but didn't the First Slayer try to kill all the Scoobies in their dreams!?!?! Not very friendly really! lol So maybe its not totally unplausible to say that she did lose her humanity....but on the other hand, humans way back then didn't really have a great concept of right or wrong, good or bad etc etc. I agree that its not all black and white, humans good, demons bad; but in the case of the First Slayer, having been "injected" with such a huge dose of demon essence might have made her more demon than human. Over the years the "amount of essence" could have balanced out, like evolution, to create the perfect balance of human and demon.

Did that make sense? I totally just typed exactly what I thought, as I thought it! lol

[wenxina]

It was residual mojo from the melding spell. The Scoobies tapped into dark primordial magic (probably actually messed around with the demon essence bit too by merging with Buffy). It wasn't necessarily the first Slayer, as in the girl, but the demon in her that was hunting down the Scoobs in their dreams. At other times, the spirit of the Slayer has proved to be useful, as in S5 with the whole "death is your gift" deal, and in S7 (offscreen) where presumably, the Potentials were getting in touch with their untapped potential (when Giles took the girls off on a field trip, and the Scoobs mistakenly thought he was the First).

[Nicholas]

Sineya (first Slayer) was shown to be shunned by the people of her tribe because they feared her strength more than they feared the actual demons and vampires which were attacking them. So my theory is that because of the fact that she obviously grew up in the desert, lacked proper speech, slept on a bag of bones, etc etc she was clearly a Neanderthal. She lacked the values of right or wrong but because of the fact that she was the Slayer, she knew that meant killing the demons. I dont really view her as a bad guy, but much more animalistic than the others down the line. She had no Watcher to guide her, just the Shadow Men who made her a Slayer and released her upon the world.

As for the Scythe, its a really confusing subject which is why I wanted to discuss it with all of you. We know that the Scythe was hidden from everyone, although I am not too sure why, and it was used to kill the last pure demon on this earth, which meant either the First Slayer or whomever came after her, had it. It was lost, stuck in the stone, and didnt show up again till the First began searching for it. the Guardian said it would be used for the Final Battle which we were supposed to believe was the Hellmouth Battle of Sunnydale. What it's true purpose is after that, is unknown. Is it just a Slayer weapon from now on or will it have some deeper meaning and purpose?

I dont exactly get why the Guardians hid it and hid themselves from The Watchers.

[wenxina]

Feb 18, 2009 14:04:33 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

Sineya (first Slayer) was shown to be shunned by the people of her tribe because they feared her strength more than they feared the actual demons and vampires which were attacking them. So my theory is that because of the fact that she obviously grew up in the desert, lacked proper speech, slept on a bag of bones, etc etc she was clearly a Neanderthal. She lacked the values of right or wrong but because of the fact that she was the Slayer, she knew that meant killing the demons. I dont really view her as a bad guy, but much more animalistic than the others down the line. She had no Watcher to guide her, just the Shadow Men who made her a Slayer and released her upon the world.

She was feared because she was stronger. She was feared for being able to do things that no one else could. Even today, we have issues with people who are better than us, not in the sense of pro athletes being able to do remarkable things with their bodies, but rather, we fear the ubermensch, the master race. That is something that's come back to bite the Slayers... they are essentially (in the eyes of their detractors anyway) a master race.

Modern man has been around for many thousands of years, even overlapping with Neantherthals for a good chunk of time. The only way to actually get closer to the answer would be to know when the demons were banished from this dimension. And Neatherthals are a LOT more sophisticated than previously thought, btw.

Feb 18, 2009 14:04:33 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

As for the Scythe, its a really confusing subject which is why I wanted to discuss it with all of you. We know that the Scythe was hidden from everyone, although I am not too sure why, and it was used to kill the last pure demon on this earth, which meant either the First Slayer or whomever came after her, had it. It was lost, stuck in the stone, and didnt show up again till the First began searching for it. the Guardian said it would be used for the Final Battle which we were supposed to believe was the Hellmouth Battle of Sunnydale. What it's true purpose is after that, is unknown. Is it just a Slayer weapon from now on or will it have some deeper meaning and purpose?

I dont exactly get why the Guardians hid it and hid themselves from The Watchers.

The first bit is subject to speculation for now. There is virtually no info available about the Scythe, beyond several cryptic remarks here and there. As for why the Guardians hid the Scythe and themselves from the Shadowmen, well it's a lot easier to watch someone whilst hidden. But I suspect their true intentions may come to light, if we ever learn about the full origin of the Scythe.

[Nicholas]

Well I guess that's a question we can ask the next time a Buffy issue comes out.

[Emmie]

Feb 18, 2009 16:52:42 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

Well I guess that's a question we can ask the next time a Buffy issue comes out.

Considering how in-depth this topic goes into the history of the Buffyverse, I think it'd be better suited and more accurate to try posing it to Whedon. But yeah, I know how hard it is to actually get a question to the big guy. It's just that Allie is more involved with Season 8 which doesn't necessarily go into the in-depth history of the slayers.

Basically, it's the sort of question I'm not sure would get you the answer you seek. Like asking David Boreanaz about Spike's character progression and acting style for BtVS seasons 4 through 7 when he wasn't around and had no input.

[wenxina]

I agree with Emmie that it's a question better suited for asking Joss himself. However, you could restructure your question a little and ask if we'll learn anything more about the Scythe's history. That's more of a technical question. However... it's wholly possible that Allie will just say "No spoilers".

[tms]

Feb 18, 2009 14:04:33 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

I dont exactly get why the Guardians hid it and hid themselves from The Watchers.

Well, wasn't it used to help vanquish the pure demons a long time ago? Up until the events that happened in Season 7, what use would such a weapon have been?

[Spiked]

Feb 18, 2009 11:50:41 GMT -5 Angelsgirl said:

Maybe i'm looking at this wrong but didn't the First Slayer try to kill all the Scoobies in their dreams!?!?! Not very friendly really! lol So maybe its not totally unplausible to say that she did lose her humanity....but on the other hand, humans way back then didn't really have a great concept of right or wrong, good or bad etc etc. I agree that its not all black and white, humans good, demons bad; but in the case of the First Slayer, having been "injected" with such a huge dose of demon essence might have made her more demon than human. Over the years the "amount of essence" could have balanced out, like evolution, to create the perfect balance of human and demon.

Did that make sense? I totally just typed exactly what I thought, as I thought it! lol

Well, I always got the feeling that her villainous appearance was a result of Buffy's fears of what the Slayer could become. Remember, the Slayer that they saw in their dreams was just that...a dream. It could have been a physical manifestation of what Buffy feared being a Slayer entailed, and, paired with the First Slayer's inability to communicate properly, she looked like she was a baddie.

Now, you could argue that the Slayer that the Scoobies saw in Restless was just like the real deal, but that wouldn't explain why when Buffy went on her spirit walk in Intervention, the spirit of the First Slayer that appeared in the fire was a good guy.

[wenxina]

Feb 18, 2009 20:14:57 GMT -5 @tms said:

Feb 18, 2009 14:04:33 GMT -5 Nicholas said:

I dont exactly get why the Guardians hid it and hid themselves from The Watchers.

Well, wasn't it used to help vanquish the pure demons a long time ago? Up until the events that happened in Season 7, what use would such a weapon have been?

Considering how useful it is for dusting common vampires, I'd say that it would've been plenty useful. As Buffy said, "Kills strong bodies in three ways"... though I've never figured out what the third way was. The stake end is obvious, as is the blade. But what's the third method?

[tms]

Feb 18, 2009 20:55:41 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Feb 18, 2009 20:14:57 GMT -5 @tms said:

Well, wasn't it used to help vanquish the pure demons a long time ago? Up until the events that happened in Season 7, what use would such a weapon have been?

Considering how useful it is for dusting common vampires, I'd say that it would've been plenty useful. As Buffy said, "Kills strong bodies in three ways"... though I've never figured out what the third way was. The stake end is obvious, as is the blade. But what's the third method?

True. Considering what happened in Wolves at the Gate, it's most likely possible that it was hidden to avoid the bad guys getting their hands on the weapon.

Btw, way #3 could be a spear.

[wenxina]

Yeah... but spearing something is essentially the same as staking something... it's still a stab wound.

[tms]

Feb 18, 2009 22:06:38 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Yeah... but spearing something is essentially the same as staking something... it's still a stab wound.

Hmm...as a form of defense?

[siredbyspike]

I've never figured out the third way either, unless it is used to beat someone like a club with the little spikes that stick out just above the stake- but that wouldn't work very well. Unless you count the quote "it slices, it dices, it juliennes preacher"...lol, No seriously, what is the third way? Maybe magic?

[Angelsgirl]

I've always wondered what the third way was too....its really bugged me for years! Everytime I watch Buffy fighting with it I try to figure it out but I haven't as yet. I have come to the conclusion that it must have something to do with the sticky outty bits above the stake but thats about it!