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Post by buffystar on Apr 21, 2009 17:57:37 GMT -5
I have a question from the episode "Conversations With Dead People". We know that The First Evil manifested to Dawn as Joyce. It was originally planned to haunt Anya with her old friend, Halfrek, and haunt Xander with his old buddy Jesse from high school. It also appeard to Willow. It was originally suppose to appear as Tara, but Amber Benson denied. So Tara was replace with Cassie. But why? Everyone else was haunted by someone they were close to. Why wasn't Willow? Maybe someone like Veruca, Harmony, maybe even Warren (again, since he visited Andrew), or Percy (maybe have The First mention he died since "Doomed") Having Cassie fill in the spot of Tara felt very...random.
Since we're on the topic of The First. How is it The First can sit or lay (As Buffy in "Touched", Cassie in "CWDP", and Eve in "Showtime") if it can't touch anything?
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Just Willow
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Post by Just Willow on Apr 21, 2009 19:11:13 GMT -5
yeah, i gotta agree with Raz.
Willow would never be convinced to kill herself by Veruca or Harmony or Warren. Percy would have been cool, but maybe they couldn't get the actor, or never thought of it. I think Cassie worked well. Tara would have been the best, but since Amber couldn't or wouldn't (do we have confirmation on that? whatever, she'll tell us in my QandA with her) i think Cassie was a good choice.
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Just Willow
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Post by Just Willow on Apr 21, 2009 23:14:59 GMT -5
Parker? like, 'stinky-parker-man' Parker?
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by jellymoff on Apr 21, 2009 23:30:49 GMT -5
I don't think Cassie was a real logical choice; I'm guessing that's who they could get. So many other characters would have made sense: Jenny Calendar, Jessie; someone she actually met. Willow never even met Cassie; she was suspect from the beginning.
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Mathieu
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Mathieu on Apr 21, 2009 23:37:32 GMT -5
It's just a shame they couldn't bring Tara back for this episode. It would have taken it to a whole different level.
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gumgnome
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Post by gumgnome on Apr 22, 2009 5:09:12 GMT -5
I guess the only problem i have with Cassie is that it forces the scene where Willow stares intently at her picture in Help so that she'll recognise her in CwDP. But Parker? She hated Parker! Percy also dismisses her pretty absolutely in Doomed making him a poor candidate, plus it would be pretty lame if he turns up and they just quickly write in that he died in a freak yachting accident a few years ago. Jesse would be a better choice, but i'll bet he looks pretty different to The Harvest, which would suggest a weird ageing effect after death...
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Mothling
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Post by Mothling on Apr 22, 2009 11:31:01 GMT -5
Oz? It would've been really shocking, not only to find out that Oz is suddenly The First, but then also Willows realization that The First can only take the form of dead people, and so Oz must therefore be...
Even Joyce visiting Willow would've been interesting. Or Angel? The First could even have taken the form of Buffy herself. There is a whole world of things they could've done.
Personally I'm surprised that they never had The First appear as Buffy to the Scoobies or Potentials at some point and start causing havoc within the ranks.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Apr 22, 2009 13:11:26 GMT -5
In case someone Willow had known in life appeared, Willow might have sense that this wasn't the person it pretended to be.
Cassie was someone the First didn't have to fear that Willow would "recognize", but Willow could still fall for the "I'm here to help you"-line since Cassie had known Buffy, thus making Willow ready to trust her.
And I guess the First is like any other ghost apperance and can control it's shape. It's lived forever and knows how.
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antoniofjm
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Post by antoniofjm on May 3, 2009 3:43:52 GMT -5
I agree with evilwillowrocker but they could of used Jenny I think.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on May 3, 2009 3:50:03 GMT -5
I would have loved Jenny but I read that the Robia LaMorte didn't like playing The First the first time so I don't thik she would have done it again... but they still could have asked her.
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Post by Greer on May 3, 2009 7:04:32 GMT -5
I think that Jenny would've been a good choice...but maybe Robia LaMorte didn't want to be stuck in that flowery outfit again, like she was when she visited Angel  I think it's really interesting that they never tried to put Buffy as one of these appearances. They all would've trusted her (Dawn and Willow,plus Spike a lot already with the Buffy appearances). I think that Joyce would've been an interesting touch, as would Angel. I do think that Willow would've trusted Jenny and listened to her. To add, why wouldn't Giles have seen Jenny? We've obviously been told by now that Giles is still so attached to Jenny and her memory, in the comics and in the script for Touched, so I think that this would be a very logical choice. There are so many choices that they could've used for the First, but at least they got it super right with Joyce and then later in the season with the Mayor visiting Faith. |
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Post by dragonweaver on May 3, 2009 8:16:15 GMT -5
I think given the circumstances, without being able to use Tara, Cassie was the best choice. Here's why:
- Jenny had been dead for quite awhile at this point in the show and the last time anyone saw 'her', she turned out to be the First. I'm sure Buffy would have told the scoobies about the First using Jenny to get to Angel and therefore the moment Willow would see her old teacher she'd probably be suspicous.
- Jesse was only seen in the pilot and was pretty much never mentioned again. Plus the actor looks way different now than he did when he first appeared. Lets just say I doubt the audience would have recognized the character.
- Oz might of been awesome, if only cause Seth Green is amazing. However, despite his awesomeness, he is also a very busy actor and probably wouldn't have had time. Also bringing him in would a) shock Willow and put her on guard quickly and b) would also mean Oz died offscreen which means they'd have to explain what happened to him and they'd never be able use Oz in future stories.
- Buffy is also a bad choice. First off SMG was already working on other scenes, so I can see why TPB decided not to over work their star actress while giving us Buffy overload (Buffy is with the vampire, now cut to Buffy with Willow). Outside of that I would say Willow probably wouldn't have opened up to Buffy. There weren't really buddy-buddy anymore and I'd imagine Willow would be hesitant to believe any of her friends, even Buffy, would advocate her committing suicide.
So point is, Cassie was a nice kid, she had been seen recently on the show and we knew how she died. Plus I think Willow opened up so much because she believed she was getting a message on-high and that there is life after death. It made sense to me.
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Post by henzINNIT on May 3, 2009 8:40:57 GMT -5
Cassie works better for me than any of the other suggestions. Oz would have been creepy as hell though.
I think the intention of season 7 was to have quite a few returning actors, but I'm guessing schedules and budget probably haulted that. I recall Jesse or Snyder visiting Xander was considered. I can only wonder who else may have popped up.
It would have been great to see things getting horrific and confusing late in the season with ghosts bullying the heroes. That even would have made things like the mutiny in Empty Places resonate far better too, as everyone would be so much more drained and depressed. I chose to think there were a lot more hauntings off screen.
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Post by VampSlayer on May 3, 2009 14:07:06 GMT -5
I think Jessie should have been chosen, if not Tara. It just makes more sense. Weren't they good friends? Not that I have a problem with Cassie doing it; Cassie just looked so sweet, and had a smile to her that could make you trust her.
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Post by CowboyGuy on May 3, 2009 14:10:42 GMT -5
Season 7 could have been so much better. I will never understand why characters like Jenny, Joyce, Kendra, Angel, Drusilla, etc weren't used more/at all. Especially Kendra! In a season about slayer power, and lineage you would think that Kendra would have been used to taunt Buffy and remind the Scoobies that they let her die. Imagine both Angel, Dru and Kendra standing next to each other taunting Buffy and Kendra playing the "why'd you let them kill me?" type of thing.
I assume that Robia LaMorte didn't want to be in the show again, as she was displeased that she played The First previously. Would have been great to see her taunt Giles and or Willow.
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 3, 2009 14:21:10 GMT -5
Season 7 could have been so much better. I will never understand why characters like Jenny, Joyce, Kendra, Angel, Drusilla, etc weren't used more/at all. Especially Kendra! In a season about slayer power, and lineage you would think that Kendra would have been used to taunt Buffy and remind the Scoobies that they let her die. Imagine both Angel, Dru and Kendra standing next to each other taunting Buffy and Kendra playing the "why'd you let them kill me?" type of thing. This is my problem with The First in Season 7 too. The writers could have done so much with it. They did an amazing job setting it up with Lessons and Conversations with Dead People, but after that it just... stopped. Bringing Drusilla and The Mayor back was cool, and I understand that it must have been hard to get a lot of the actors and pay them all, but because of that The First bacame the lamest and least terrifying Big Bad on the show. |
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redhead
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Post by redhead on May 4, 2009 5:14:13 GMT -5
Kendra would have been interesting as the First. Expecially as season 7 was all about going back to the beginning.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 4, 2009 13:31:07 GMT -5
I suppose the reason they used Cassie was because they had planned to use Tara. They probably assumed Amber Benson would say yes but when they asked her I believe she said no because she wanted to be known as the nice Tara and not evil. Therefore Cassie was in season seven earlier on so they could have grabbed the actress at last minute and used her.
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Post by iamthewalrus on May 4, 2009 13:49:45 GMT -5
i've been rewatching season 7 recently and was wondering why The First can sit on things, and walk around aswell
maybe it floats
like, theres the thinest slice of air around it so it just looks like its sitting and walking around
sounds a little silly
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 4, 2009 14:00:20 GMT -5
i've been rewatching season 7 recently and was wondering why The First can sit on things, and walk around aswell maybe it floats like, theres the thinest slice of air around it so it just looks like its sitting and walking around sounds a little silly I noticed that also. If you watch the episode with the first in season two you will also see the first touching anything it wants lol |
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