When She Was Bad: Discussion

[CowboyGuy]

"Into every generation there is a chosen one, she alone will stand against the vampires, the demons and the forces of darkness...she is the slayer."

Previously on Buffy the Vampire Slayer: As the Spring Fling dance approached, Giles discovered an ancient book which foretold the Slayer's death at the hands of The Master.

It's Buffy Day, and today's episode is the Season Two premiere...

"When She Was Bad"

:CLICK HERE TO STREAM EPISODE:

**Using Hulu is great, as it allows you to make the video a pop-up...so you can still view the forum if you want to while watching!**

Next episode will take place on Tuesday, April 28th, 2009!

Buffy Tuesdays are back on SlayAlive! Enjoy Buffy in all her Season One era glory. Watch. Discuss, here.

[buffyverseforever]

I really need to catch up-sorry,it's been a nightmarish couple of months....


Best wishes,

Scott

[Saturn 5]

When she was bad;

The Good;
Buffy's 'Miss me' to the camera (which I inexcusably missed first time around). Xander and Willow's almost kiss (awwwwww! even the most foremost Tara/Willow or Willow/Oz fan must feel their heart breaking). Snyder and Giles' brilliant talk and walk and the first hints of Giles'/Jenny's attraction. Buffy's great training session with Giles, the incredibly creepy dream sequence where the Master-as-Giles tries to kill Buffy whilst Willow and Xander watch on unconcerned (she should have known it was a dream when Xander swapped his chocolate for an apple). The whole scene smacks of Freudian rape overtones, Buffy's father figure forcing himself upon her and penetrating her body with his fangs. Willow not being able to say the word B-I-T-C-H and Xander not being able to spell it (LOVE Giles' expression in this scene). The great Hank/Joyce scene (I figure this is the summer by the beach Dawn later refers to in Blood Ties), Cordy's sympathy with Buffy and characteristic bluntness about the truth about Sunnydale. The Buffy/Angel bedroom scene and the smoking-hot Buffy dancing with Xander at the Bronze. The trap and rescue of the Scoobies, Buffy's cathartic smashing the Master's bones, especially Buffy killing 2 vamps at once. All told, fan-bloody-tastic and a whole new start for Buffy.

The Bad;
The only thing I can find wrong with it is when the Scoobies figure out that Jenny is the vamps next target and rather than try to warn her just assume for no possible reason that they've already got her. Lazy writing! Also Willow wears her HORRIBLE yellow tights again

Best line;
Snyder; there are some things I can just smell, like a sixth sense
Giles; actually that would be one of the five

Questions and observations;
So, you CAN bring a vampire back from the dead as we'll see later with Darla in Angel. One wonders why they don't try it more often but then with a few notable exceptions they don't really seem to care about one another so much. Joyce and Hank seem to have a pretty civilised divorce.
The whole look and feel of this ep is different, as though the first season was just a trial run and now it's time for the real thing to begin. Firstly, we have all the Scooby's except Buff and Angel knocked out and all but Buffy, Angel and Xander tied up. Secondly rewatching this ep you're very much struck by the sight of Buffy torturing the vamp for information to save her friends, ramming a silver cross down it's throat, the vampire equivalent of a red-hot poker. HMMMMMM?
Kinda puts 'waterboarding' and Abu Grahib in persepctive, huh? Psychologists (and yes, that's the degree I'm doing in case you're wondering) have occaisionally commentated on the way people object to torture in real life but are ok with it in fiction (Dirty Harry springs to mind). What they suggest is that we find it easier to accept when we can put a human face to those who are going to be saved, in TV and movies the correlation between the info gained and benefits are always very direct and evident

5/5, now we're talking

[Just Willow]

i do love this episode. even though i'm a hardcore Twillow shipper, the almost Xillow moment just makes my heart smile, it's so cute. Also, Buffy's breakdown at the end is tearjerking. I can never watch her smash the Master to pieces without crying along with her.

One of the best moments, though, is Cordy's confrontation with Buffy outside the Bronze. it's the first sign that yeah, Cordelia does care about people, and is worried that the three best buds might fall apart.

PLus, you know, the world famous 'Bitca?' quote is in this ep, so what's not to love?

All in all, i'm gonna say 4.5/5, the half point taken off for sheer irritation at Buffy's bitca-ness.

[gumgnome]

I love Giles at the end comforting Buffy: "Buffy, you acted wrongly, I admit that. But believe me, that was hardly the, the worst mistake you'll ever make. Uh, that wasn't quite as comforting as it was meant to be."

[Paul]

This is one of my least favourite episodes, actually. The plot is slow, the characterization is dull (Buffy's lame attempts at being a bitch) and Absalom has to be one of the most annoying villains in the whole series (he just runs around screaming... take a chill pill FFS). It's not a bad episode, I just find it kind of boring...

That said, I do love this bewildered line from Giles:

"Trout? Trout! Yes, trout... is a fish."

[CowboyGuy]

Yeah it is kinda boring...

And I always thought Buffy acting like a bitca was lame. But the Cordy advice scene is one of my favorites from this episode.

Hey, I'm just glad we're on Season 2! Hopefully this will get more to join in our discussions!

[Paul]

Apr 24, 2009 14:04:28 GMT -5 CowboyGuy said:

Yeah it is kinda boring...

And I always thought Buffy acting like a bitca was lame. But the Cordy advice scene is one of my favorites from this episode.

Hey, I'm just glad we're on Season 2! Hopefully this will get more to join in our discussions!

The worst bit is when Buffy makes that tame-ass comment to Cordelia and all the character stand around looking totally stunned. It wasn't that bad, Willow has said way bitchier things about Cordelia and Anya and nobody says squat about that.

I do like the Cordelia scene now that you mention it. An early example of Cordy being much more intelligent and insightful than she makes out.

[Marcos]

I LOOOVE this episode. It's not fast and furious, it's pure character development, and I think it is perfect that way. It shows us that Buffy Summers is not a character like others. She can be much messier and do more stupid things than what you would expect from a hero. In season 1, sure she made mistakes, but nothing that would make us dislike her a little. The layers of her struggle to deal with the Slayer's heavier burden (her own mortality, which she never faced before) is amazingly well developed. She adopts a posture of "I don't care, I'll just live life and kick ass" which includes, of course, sexuality. She treats Angel like a monster and, basically, becomes a little bit Faith. All of that proves to be self-destructive. The scene where she breaks the bones and finally understands she has no choice than to deal with her own mortality, to me, is really powerful.

What makes this ep even more special, IMO, is the fact that it's a HUGE foreshadow to season 6. When faced with the Slayer's heavier burden, Buffy always push people away, looks for sexuality (body pleasure rather than spiritual), and basically tries to destroy herself rather than dealing with pain.

Also, a lot of great scenes. Cordelia's advice, Xander's bitca, Giles' "one of the five senses", and the initial scene was SO cute. ^^ It's really hard to look at this Willow and see her as the kick-ass almighty lesbian wicca she is now. LOL Xtreme character evolution! Awesomeness!

IMO, anyways

[Rebecca]

I definitely echo marcos.

The theme of connection (or rather lack thereof) in the burden of heroism is something Buffy is dealing with today. Marcos' connection with Buffy pushing people away and compensating with sexuality (as opposed to sexuality) made me think of the contrast between S5 and S6. S5 Buffy really embraced the spirituality of being a slayer, but in S6, her faith was broken. I'd like to see her get back to her S5 mental health without the epic death scene.

But she was rather bitchy Even I have my days lol

[buffyfan21]

WSWB is actually one of my fave season openers and one of my fave eps. While I am a little put off by Buffy's attitude this ep, I can certainly understand it. And mostly I just feel bad for her. Buffy's dream at the beginning of this ep is an interesting one. Could it be that Buffy sees Giles as The Master in disguise because Giles is her watcher, thus she blames him for her death at the hands of The Master, and for all her duties and responsibilities as a slayer? Prior to moving to Sunnydale, Buffy had decided to retire her slayer duties and move on with her life, only taking them up again after she she meets Giles. So, it does make sense that she would blame him for everything in a way. Also interesting that (in the dream) Willow and Xander are sitting, nonchalantly eating snacks, while Buffy is being choked by Giles/The Master. Does Buffy feel as though her friends don't really care or understand all that she has sacrificed? Does she resent them for constantly having to keep them safe, never getting to have a "normal" life of her own? The part where Willow almost slips up and talks about a dream she had about Xander is funny. It is a mislead b/c at first you think the scene is actually happening, and then when Giles comes along, you realize the whole thing has been a dream.

Love the sexy dance between Buffy and Xander. I still can't hear that song without thinking of this scene. Hate to see the look of hurt on both Willow and Angel's faces though. I can Understand Buffy wanting to hurt Angel to an extent, but for Buffy to deliberately hurt willow that way, knowing how she feels about Xander, now that i just don't get. And to use Xander that way, knowing his feeling for her, was also wrong. Yep, definitely cruel and unusual punishment from the Buffster all around, this ep. I will say she is lucky that her friends forgave her by the end of the episode. Cordy "queen bitch" trying to give Buffy friendship advice was also priceless. Though, I think in her way she was actually trying to be nice.

Love the whole bitca scene. Xander calling Giles G-Man. The bet Will and Xand had going about how long before Giles would need to "consult his books." Snyder, unaware that he is, in fact, talking to himself. Giles turning into a "jibbering fool" at first sight of Ms. Calendar.

Love Xander growing a back bone and saying, "if they hurt Willow I'll kill you." This shows that as much as he is infatuated with Buffy, he will not stand for anyone hurting his Willow, even if that person happens to be Buffy herself. Xander's words, while seemingly harsh, are understandable. And his actions show, that while he may not be flirting with Willow now that Buffy has returned, he does love her very much and the two have been friends for a long time. He will stop at nothing to protect and keep her safe, even if that means threatening the object of his affection. Interesting to note that this will not be the first, or the last time the scoobies have their issues. The best of friends will argue from time to time. But thankfully the gang always manage to put the pieces back together in the end.

Love the ending with Buffy crushing The Master's bones with a sledge hammer (definitely the therapy she needed) and crying in Angel's arms. Love Giles' advice that this is hardly the worst mistake Buffy will make (possible foreshadowing to future events?). Sadly, Buffy has no idea just how true this will turn out to be.

[gumgnome]

Cool analysis of the episode buffyfan21! I particularly like your theory that Buffy sees Giles as The Master because she feels that he is responsible for her Slayer duties and, hence, her death.

I also love the sexy dance scene (SMG can sexy dance on screen all she wants as far as I'm concerned . I think the look on Xander's face as she walks away says it all really.

You've reminded me of the many plus sides to this episode - it's risen to refreshed heights. I guess in the end, apart from "Welcome to the Hellmouth" I've always thought of the season openers poorly. I think that this is really just because I always had the longest time to wait before seeing these for the first time that I would have such uber-high expectations about how good they were gonna be that they disappointed first-time round.