Buffy, Cordelia, Angel

[Hallow Thorn]

So I can.

[The Night Lord]

Heck, I will say it: Angel loved Cordelia as much as he loved Buffy. Also, I'm gonna cross the line and add: And possibly more

[shenea717]

IMO Angel loved Cordy more. I mean of course Buffy was his first love and everything but I think he held on to that because she was new. He had never had anything like that before. But he could never be himself with her. It was always so melodramatic for absolutly no reason at all. And there was never any reason at all for him to love her. It was forced. They were never soul mates, or destined to be. They wanted each other because they knew deep down the other was unattainable, and you always want what you can't have. But when it came to Cordy she became the most important person in his life. He always chose her, he always put her first. She was much more than a crush to him, she was his true love. Buffy may have taught him how to love, but Cordelia taught him how to live.

[TheDancingSlayer]

Being a Bangel shipper; If I even thought about attempting to write some reasonable paragraph on who Angel loved most it is gonna be incredibly biased! (wow, hows that for a sentence?? )

And my point is,

..I had a point, but it has disappeared somewhere in that ridiculous lack-of-comas sentence up there- you see my point.. :s

Someone shoot me.

[N.D.U.O]

Angel's smile at the end of Disharmony... when has Buffy ever made Angel smile like that?

And the way Angel freaks out whenever Cordy is away from him (except for that crazy Darla time): To Shanshu in LA, Belonging, That Vision Thing, Birthday, Deep Down and Ground State. In all those episodes Angel has shown an uncharacteristic, determined, slightly-insane need to reach Cordy and get her back.

"Don't you come at me through Cordelia again, you play that card a second time - and I'll kill you"
"She's probably just hiding."
"I'll get you back - I need you back."
"I need Cordy. Now"

She's his rock, he doesn't know how to live without her. So she couldn't have just reaped the rewards of Buffy - or he wouldn't be so afraid when she's not there.

In Disharmony none of the crew really liked him or wanted to talk to him for fun, friendly, jovial, friend-ness, but Angel's biggest concern was that Cordy didn't want to talk to him. That's because Cordy talking to him is something he could always rely on. In the past any time Cordy wasn't talking to him is because someone has stopped her. Then it's easy for Angel. Find that person, kill that person. That's why Angel's so fiercely determined becasue all he's thinking is: Find who's stopping Cordy from speaking to me. Kill that person. It's kind of scary. And if Wesley or Lorne get in his way because of... I don't know... logic. He snaps at them or ignores them altogether.

Where was I... oh yeah... but when Cordy herself doesn't want to speak to him, he's baffled. He can't kill Cordy. He starts asking Wesley to help him out, he's all over the place, trying and failing, but yet with the same determination. Even if Cangel isn't for you - you have to admit that Cordy had a MASSIVE influence on Angel. Bigger than Buffy. Because IMO if Buffy wasn't the slayer at the time Whistler showed her to Angel - the results would have been the same. Who would have had the same effect as Cordy. Even back in Sunnydale in the episode, Halloween, Cordy still manges to make him laugh and smile easily. Something Buffy has to try at it. (which is what i think is what really makes Buffy jealous).

I may come back later to impart more Cangel wisdom.

[schwinnhappy]

First off, the first post in this thread gives no substantial evidence to the claim that Angel loves Buffy more than he loved Cordelia.

Joss is a confusing little git, and a lot of the writing, especially during the last season of Buffy and the last two seasons of Angel was ridiculous. Well, not really for Buffy, but the last bit where Angel showed up right before the Hellmouth closed seemed like blatant pandering towards Buffy/Angel shippers.

I've always seen it this way:

Angel will always love Buffy. That is the long and short of it. Before meeting Buffy, Angel had spent the better part of a century skulking around in the shadows, hating himself. Buffy reignited his belief in humanity - his desire to be righteous and strong-willed. But their love was juvenile. I actually used to hate Angel when I first saw him on Buffy because their romance seemed to have little rhyme or reason to it. They were too self-consumed and angst-ridden. Though Buffy started Angel on the path of growing, she also stunted him because she could never fully accept him. That's why their relationship could never fully work - she could never accept his demon side, and he became even more self-loathing.

After watching Angel though, it's remarkable just how much Cordelia really stepped in and changed him. Someone mentioned that Cordelia just got to enjoy the Angel that Buffy helped to create. No, not at all. Angel was still very unsure of himself after creating Angel Investigations. He didn't know what direction to go in. Doyle helped him first, and then Cordelia took over. She taught him how to laugh and how to find humour in the darkest of situations. She was his rock. Whenever something happened to her, Angel was a mess without Cordelia. Slowly, Angel began to realize just how special she had become. He really did love her, regardless of what anyone says. Just because it isn't this irrational crazy love, doesn't mean it isn't love. That doesn't mean that he didn't love Buffy, but he just matured and found his that his hope lived in someone else - Cordelia. It was a mature love - they saw the true champion in one another.

This is how I sum it up:

The first time Angel lost his soul, he lost it to Buffy. Angel really loved Buffy and all it took for Angel to reach "perfect happiness" was to sleep with her.

In season four of Angel, he has an ultimate fantasy - the most ideal way he could lose his soul. In his dream, it not only takes sleeping with his new love, Cordelia, but his family has to be safe and happy and his son has to love him, for Angel to lose his soul. His idea of "perfect happiness" has changed into something entirely different from when he was with Buffy. He had matured so much, just as Cordelia has. Also, when he's having sex with Cordelia, a lot of people say he calls out Buffy's name because he'd rather be with her. No, he doesn't call out Buffy's name in pleasure. He calls out Buffy's name in pain because he automatically associates the pain of losing his soul with her. He chose to have sex with Cordelia in his ultimate fantasy.

Cordelia's character was murdered because Joss wasn't happy with the actress who played her. They got in some petty squabble and he decided to ruin the entire character by turning her evil and then making the rest of the cast act as if she was never present in the series. After Cordy died, she was barely even mentioned, let alone honored. It's kind of obvious that all of that was done on purpose - the writers of Buffy and Angel are smart enough not to be so careless. It was obviously intentional. Plus, Joss said he always was most fond of the idea of Buffy/Angel being together. Maybe he was being kind of self-serving by killing her off?

[N.D.U.O]

First, I TOTALLY agree with you in every way...

Secondly, Welcome to SlayAlive!