Angel: After the Fall - Issue 13

[vbg]

Oct 22, 2008 19:53:18 GMT -5 bullseye said:

In angel #13 when spike is fighting those 3 slayers, he gets dusted.
So how is he alive and apparantly friends with the slayers in a few pages???

Can you say Twilight! It the only thing that make sense.

[Malsad]

what
is Spike dead?
again ?

[bullseye]

how did gunn make it so noone can die in his hotel?

[trunkstheslayer]

My only real questions for the issue both pertain to the "Dragon-splash-page".
1-Is that Groo in the background with his winged horse?
and
2-.....how the hell did Dragons breed with fighter jets? Seriously, HUH?!

[wenxina]

Oct 23, 2008 11:00:58 GMT -5 trunkstheslayer said:

My only real questions for the issue both pertain to the "Dragon-splash-page".
1-Is that Groo in the background with his winged horse?
and
2-.....how the hell did Dragons breed with fighter jets? Seriously, HUH?!

The same way sewers and buildings suddenly sprouted tentacles.
I thought it was kinda cool... the whole perversion of just about anything that could be twisted. A little campy, I must say, but still kinda awesome.

[Wyndam]

I absolutely loved this issue. Issues #12 and #13 are easily my two favorites of the series (so far). The story and plot development in each one has been stellar. Even when Spike was staked and I knew that he couldn't possibly be dead, that didn't stop me from doing a double take and wondering if it had actually happened for a second. That mixed with Angel's monologue during those panels was perfect.

I must say I am pretty sad about Cordragon's death, but he certainly went out with a bang (as did Gwen, if she is dead). The Angel and Cordy scene continued to bleed quality, and I was sad to see Cordy go, but equally glad that Angel has decided to stay and finish the fight.

The last few pages were very tense, and I can't wait to see what happens with Frillyria, because based on the Issue #14 cover, Illyria will be emerging into her true form. How that fits into Gunn's plan is unclear, but it should certainly be interesting.

Both covers were amazing for this issue! I had a really hard time deciding which one to get in the shop, but ended up with Garner's cover as I got a Runge cover for Issue #12.

Now the waiting game for Issue #14 begins...

[Whedon Fan]

I thought it was a bit cheesy the hell all over LA like that but it is a Sci Fi comic book and it did kind of happen on "the gift" for Buffy season 5 so I just imagined it like that and everythng was pretty good. Pretty good issue but how is Angel just all better now after Gunn reversed all the spell that have healed him in hell or have I missed something.

I loved Connor kicking Gunn's ass, brilliant and a long time coming!

[trunkstheslayer]

Oct 23, 2008 15:10:02 GMT -5 Whedon Fan said:

I thought it was a bit cheesy the hell all over LA like that but it is a Sci Fi comic book and it did kind of happen on "the gift" for Buffy season 5 so I just imagined it like that and everythng was pretty good. Pretty good issue but how is Angel just all better now after Gunn reversed all the spell that have healed him in hell or have I missed something.

I loved Connor kicking Gunn's ass, brilliant and a long time coming!

Um...I dunno what issue you're reading but Angel isn't all better in mine. Maybe you're seeing the 'ghost' Angel?

[Whedon Fan]

Yeah sorry it was hte ghost Angel I re-read it and turn out I must have missed a panel. I was reading it on the bus the first time. So apparently there is somethind mystically about the hotle based on what Spike said and that he isn't dust

Oh and I forgot about the ending............BAD GUNN!

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

Does anyone think Fred is officially dead?

[Emmie]

Cordragon's death was incredibly sad to me, especially the panel of her lying on the LA streets broken. Speaking of dragons, anyone notice how the HellA dragons were half-Fighter Jets?

Loved the Connor development and his "Screw that" line. It was perfect for Connor and it reminded me of that moment nearly every Buffyverse character experiences when they choose to defy destiny. The essence of heroism - fighting back against seemingly impossible odds, knowing victory is not assured but continuing the fight. Strong is fighting.

Loved the parallels of Gunn saying, "So. Come to this." after being tossed out of the building, both action and dialogue perfectly mirroring Spike in the first panel of the issue. Which leads to the ANGEL motif of vampires being tossed out of buildings - Angel and Spike have done it several times now, Gunn just the once. Both Gunn and Spike are tossed off the tower only to re-emerge with renewed purpose that leads to groundbreaking discoveries. Spike discovers the mystical resurrection capabilities of "Hotel de Chuck". Gunn rediscovers his "mission" when he encounters Fryllria on the street. I like to believe the story structure suggests they needed to hit 'rock bottom' before receiving this elevating knowledge.

How wonderingly twisted and tragic that Gunn finally accomplishes what he had agonized over from AtS season 5 - killing Fred. Gunn keeps sacrificing Fred in order to serve his own purposes - maintaining his intellectual superiority in season 5 and maintaining his moral/messiah superiority in After the Fall.

The death toll in this issue is staggering (whether the death stuck or not) - Angel (dying), Spike, Cordragon, Gwen, the Fred part of Fryllria, Cordy (fading away felt like a kind of death), Wesley (epitomizing death in his ghost-like state). The only main character vibrating with life is Connor and it's fitting that he's the one to rally the troops, to keep Angel from fading away. Angel's hope.

Great issue, but with so much death nailing home the fact that Angel and his friends are in hell, it makes me wonder how the story will survive tragedy after tragedy. Who will still be left standing for Angel:Aftermath? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel and will there be anyone left to walk into it?

[hitnrun017]

Noooooo! I hope Gwen's not dead, but if she is, I think it was a good death, very selfless. I did have to stop reading it for a couple minutes though. I was VERY upset by Dragon Cordy's death though, I felt sick. It's just a dragon, right? Wrong. I'm pretty sure every reader fell in love with him/her and I thought s/he deserved better. Cordelia's conclusion was great, loved her last line. Connor was the star of this issue though, his fight with Gunn was so cool, who also shined this issue. Mooney's art continued to impress.

There were only two downfalls to this issue. Spike! I don't know what it was, but I wanted to jump inside the comic and rip his goddamn head off. I hated everything that came out of his mouth. This was an epic issue and I felt that his smartass remarks didn't fit well. The second problem I had was the ending, it was obviously suppose to be shocking, but it wasn't because of everything else that had happened.

But overall it was a fantastic issue, one of my favorites! I can't wait to find out what happens to Angel.

[Brian Lynch]

See I told you guys that Connor is gonna be the breakout star of the book! He's such fun to write.

Sorry you didn't dig Spike. He's got some good stuff coming up. And the ending wasn't supposed to be shocking, per se, just the next thing that happens. I think there are about five or six things that were just as shocking in this issue. Hopefully it doesn't seem like shocking for the sake of shocking, we're going somewhere lovely with all of this. Well, evil but lovely. And shocking. Can I say shocking more in this post?

Brian "Shocking" Lynch

[Tyler Austin "tiewashere"]

Oct 23, 2008 21:23:44 GMT -5 Brian Lynch said:

See I told you guys that Connor is gonna be the breakout star of the book! He's such fun to write.

Which is so surprising because he is my least favorite character in the entire Buffyverse. I'm surprised I like him.

[vbg]

Oct 22, 2008 15:05:39 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

*sob*

Still waiting for issue 12 from time & space toys.

Better off just buy issue #12 at a comic shop. Time & Space don't have a cover for issue #13. Hit two birds with one stone and pick up both issues.

[Enisy]

Oct 23, 2008 21:23:44 GMT -5 Brian Lynch said:

Sorry you didn't dig Spike. He's got some good stuff coming up.

hitnrun doesn't dig Spike in general, if memory serves, so I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the writing.

And the ending wasn't supposed to be shocking, per se, just the next thing that happens. I think there are about five or six things that were just as shocking in this issue. Hopefully it doesn't seem like shocking for the sake of shocking, we're going somewhere lovely with all of this.

That's what I love about the Jossverse (and about Angel: After the Fall more than Buffy: Season 8 right now). You guys don't do gratuitous plot twists; they almost always mean something for the characters, take them somewhere they haven't been before.

Jane Espenson: I think I just like Joss's style. He tells stories with great heart and imagination. He never is swayed by the coolness factor of some plot move -- "It's just moves," he'll scoff. He is totally directed by the emotional heart of the story.

Applies for Brian's writing 100%, too.

Personally, I'm most interested to see where this takes Gunn and Illyria right now. That was a huge moment.

[hitnrun017]

Oct 24, 2008 10:48:05 GMT -5 Enisy said:

Oct 23, 2008 21:23:44 GMT -5 Brian Lynch said:

Sorry you didn't dig Spike. He's got some good stuff coming up.

hitnrun doesn't dig Spike in general, if memory serves, so I wouldn't necessarily blame it on the writing.

Yeah, it wasn't the writing, it was perfect Spike dialogue, and I have been liking Spike in S:AtF and A:AtF, I was just so shocked and sad at everything that was happening in the issue that I couldn't find the humor in it, but I'm sure a lot of people did.

[Brian Lynch]

It's interesting you should say that, because lately I've taken a lot of jokes and asides out because of the gravity of the situation. Oh yes, things get more and more dismal for our heroes, and it definitely took away from it to have a character make a joke.

Not to say there isn't any levity, but man, YOU try making a joke when...

...well, you'll see.

[fire2flame]

Anyone notice the Pegasus flying amidst the hellstorm? It made me smile thinking that the Groosalugg (AKA Groo-dawg) was kicking some royal ass on his winged horse. You know, talking shit in Pylea fashion while beheading dragons with a bloody axe... ::Sigh:: ...Is there a spin-off coming? Say yes, Brian! Say yes!

Thought the issue was great! I'm hoping that Spike ATF will help explain some things. Like, has he died before in Hell-A? Is getting staked just another day for him? And how in the hell does he keep on 'woo-ing' these Amazons? He's charming, I'll give him that, but I kind of want an explanation on this. Most of the time I give writers some slack on things like this, (because the more mystery to a story the better) but with deaths and spontaneous regenerations, killer slayers turned faithful, dreamy servants, I'm scratching my head and wondering if Spike is the second coming.

So that this post goes full circle: Do you guys think that the orb-thingy (Sorry I'm at school at the moment and can't go run and look up what it's called) that Gunn stole from the skeleton dude is the thing that's causing everyone to come back to life in "Hotel De Chuck"? Makes sense, in a way, because apart from everything else that's been happening in L.A. lately, walking skeletons does almost cross the line- "almost" being the key word here, as I'm just throwing it out there for my fellow ATF readers.

[trunkstheslayer]

Can't be. We see the reviving happening in Spike:ATF which is before Angel:ATF starts. Gunn gets that orb in the first Angel issue.