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Post by Wyndam on Dec 17, 2008 16:42:14 GMT -5
This issue was quite possibly the best Buffyverse comic I've ever read, and easily the best issue we've had so far in Angel: After the Fall.
I'll start with the art: Franco is back and with a vengeance! The art in this issue was amazing, and Fabio's colors were really well done as well. Urru really raised the bar with his art in Spike: After the Fall, and he really delivered the goods in the issue. Those last 4-5 pages in particular are just stunning. From Illyria getting bombarded with Wesley and Spike's memories of Fred, to Angel holding his son, just impressive stuff all the way through.
Now for the issue: Another emotional roller coaster. It was unclear what happened to Groo when I was reading the preview, but I think it is safe to say that he is dead (unless the panel of Illyria chomping down on Cordelia (the flying steed), with blood spraying in every direction as the flaming sword drops to the ground is lying...).
A very quick death for Groo, and while sad, was hardly the emotional pull of this issue. Illyria out and ready to end existence was a really interesting turn for the character, and I really enjoyed the dialogue between Angel and Wes, and later Spike about how to stop it. They realize that Fred is not in there, but they also consider Illyria a friend and I am sure the thought of trying to kill her was difficult to stomach. It was necessary though.
Despite Illyria showing Angel his future, he still continues with his plan, which just continues to prove what a great character Angel is. No matter how dire a situation gets, no matter how many people are getting killed around him, he will never give up, no matter what the future holds for him.
This also relates to the next sequence, where Gunn strikes down Connor. This was easily the most surprising moment of the series for me, and one that I just cannot stop thinking about. Gunn mortally wounds Connor. It was so heartbreaking to watch Angel beat Gunn down and then decide not to kill him. Angel has an epiphany of sorts and realizes that if he kills Gunn and Illyria, without trying to make things right first, that he would become exactly what Wolfram and Hart wanted him to be. A soulless demon that ushers in the Apocalypse.
By not killing Gunn, Angel is able to develop a plan that doesn't involve killing Illyria either, and that worked for me. Season 3, 4 or 5 Angel would have just killed Gunn and gone after Illyria next, but I think at this point, Angel is tired and sick of all of his friends dying around him. Coming up with a unique way to subdue Illyria was a great development for Angel's character, and another reason why I love this series so much.
So, Connor was stabbed by Gunn. Stabbed with the flaming sword, no less. After Illyria goes down, the final panels of Angel and Connor were so emotional. I teared up during the Illyria/Wes panels in #9, and I teared up here as well. I can't even imagine how Angel is going to be able to go on without Connor. I just can't. Angel has fought for so long to make things right with Connor, and now his son has been taken away.
Connor died a hero though, but this was still a devastatingly emotional end for him. Poor, poor Angel. He has lost nearly everyone he has cared for at this point (Doyle, Cordelia, Fred, Wesley, Gunn, and now Connor).
Only two issues left, I can't wait to see what happens next.
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jellymoff
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Post by jellymoff on Dec 17, 2008 18:41:30 GMT -5
Um wow. This issue was fantastic. Leave it to Lynch to turn us (people who didn't love Connor) into them (people who do love Connor) and then take him away from us. So Whedony! I just started to really like the guy and now he's gone. This is probably the most shocking and tragic moment of ATF so far, in my opinion.
I'm still not sold on Angel not killing Gunn. Sure maybe it would have turned him into what they wanted him to be and all that but DUDE, he killed your son. A son that he should have never had in the first place.
I don't really know what else can happen that will blow my mind at this point, at least in terms of death. I mean, who else can they kill off besides Spike and Angel, which I don't think they will do.
Anyway, great issue, left me a but sad and angry though...
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Post by VampSlayer on Dec 17, 2008 18:50:12 GMT -5
Have only read Wyndam's post, and I got teary eyes, I dont want to know what Ill be like when I read this issue.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Dec 17, 2008 21:23:58 GMT -5
Dam...I read Wyndam's post...I hate that they died... I really hope we see Connor again alive ... Joss Whedon is starting to make me really dislike Angel: After the Fall... so what's next? more comics about Spike? no thank-you But can Illyria still rewind time? I would really like her to rewind just before Connor is about to die and she stops Gunn and kills him...
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Post by VampSlayer on Dec 17, 2008 22:23:20 GMT -5
Dam...I read Wyndam's post...I hate that they died... I really hope we see Connor again alive ... Joss Whedon is starting to make me really dislike Angel: After the Fall... so what's next? more comics about Spike? no thank-you But can Illyria still rewind time? I would really like her to rewind just before Connor is about to die and she stops Gunn and kills him... I kinda want Connor to stay dead. Things are getting interesting. Angel is pretty much all alone. Cant wait for Aftermath.
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cheryl
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Post by cheryl on Dec 17, 2008 22:32:57 GMT -5
I'm not really loving it that Connor died either and I know what you mean about just starting to like him and then he's taken away.
Don't worry TOG, Spike is probably next since I really like him again too. I have grown really fond of Spike since he developed feelings for Fred/Illyria. He is the old school Spike again, concerning love.
Honestly, I just don't understand why they think they have to kill off everyone. It gets exhausting for us fans. Some of us.
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fear
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Post by fear on Dec 17, 2008 22:36:51 GMT -5
NO! not Connor, I have always like him!
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Dec 17, 2008 22:42:34 GMT -5
Darla and Angel's son and the only child ever born to two Vampires and they just kill him off... BOOOO.... I have always like him (- the trying to kill Cordy thing ) I am really upset that they are killing everybody off...why? Wow the comics/ show is so deep and Dark, lets kill everyone... try killing off some people in 'Buffy' and leave 'Angel'!!! .... *Bitch, over* cheryl don't get my hopes up lol... well they can make him evil again... He was always cool when he was bad...
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rogue11
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Post by rogue11 on Dec 17, 2008 22:56:46 GMT -5
Oh wow its true everybody in team Angel is dead or like the living dead... Wow thats pretty wierd. Its nice to see Urru back, i actually thinks he can draw things in the most creative ways. It was like seeing a more newer look of Illyria, i mean they haven't showed it with its mouth oppened before. But yeah this series is getiing darker and darker, how about some hope in the series?
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Dec 17, 2008 23:06:16 GMT -5
But yeah this series is getiing darker and darker, how about some hope in the series? Yes, I would love to see Connor, Cordelia, Doyle, Fred, Gunn and Wesley as 'Ascended Higher powers' all working for the PTB and they should then make a Mini Series of that and have it based around 10-20 years after Fray...
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Malsad
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Post by Malsad on Dec 17, 2008 23:20:43 GMT -5
come on who else is actuly left from team angel? i want a list!!!
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Post by Wyndam on Dec 17, 2008 23:26:50 GMT -5
come on who else is actuly left from team angel? i want a list!!! Current Team Angel (after issue #15): - Angel - Spike - Wesley - Lorne (although it looks like he is staying in Silverlake) - Nina (Not with the team currently) - Buffy's Slayers (also just there to fight really) Not clear yet on how many of the Spikettes are still alive, and Illyria isn't exactly playing nice anymore.
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Post by Emmie on Dec 17, 2008 23:31:27 GMT -5
This issue was really fantastic! One of my favorites of the series.
I've gotta say the colorist for this issue really impressed me. He made the art leap of the page for me - so much depth, texture and detail. Wow. Fabio Mantovani - welcome!
It's not really just about the actual colors for me here (though the colors themselves are great) but the style the artist uses and the textures he creates. Like towards the end when Illyria is being bombarded by Wes and Spike's memories of Fred - the background of the sky and the stars is really beautiful and gives this awesome glimmer effect. It helps to make the moment more haunting. The detailed and realistic coloring and texture of Groo's sword was also very impressive.
Of course, Urru brought some really amazing panels to life.
One of the part's I found most fascinating was Wesley referring to Illyria as "it" and no longer a "she". He was so dispassionate in his discussion of how to take "it" down.
I'm not sure how I feel about Connor's death. On the one hand, I understand how it works in having to pay for the consequences of Angel's decision. But on the other hand, Connor was the one bright shining message of the entire series. Even when he was trying to kill Angel in the past, his life was still sacred. Connor was Angel's hope. To lose Connor, Fred, (human)Gunn *and* Cordelia in one year's span of time? Dear god. Perhaps we shouldn't let Angel fight with any overly sharp objects at the moment? I'm a bit worried he might slit his wrists.
I've been a bit worried by the extremely darker trend of After the Fall. The most notable difference for me between it and the show is the absence of hope from these actions. Connor just was the final nail in that coffin. A part of me is still hopeful that some narrative curve ball is waiting for us up ahead.
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Post by Wyndam on Dec 17, 2008 23:40:55 GMT -5
It's not really just about the actual colors for me here (though the colors themselves are great) but the style the artist uses and the textures he creates. Like towards the end when Illyria is being bombarded by Wes and Spike's memories of Fred - the background of the sky and the stars is really beautiful and gives this awesome glimmer effect. It helps to make the moment more haunting. The detailed and realistic coloring and texture of Groo's sword was also very impressive. This was probably my favorite part of the issue. The art was just beautiful on this page. I love how Illyria was just standing there, and the blue-ish looking landscape just looked wonderful.
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alycat7
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Post by alycat7 on Dec 18, 2008 1:31:57 GMT -5
I just started reading ATF and it is much better than buffy season 8 in my eyes.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Dec 18, 2008 2:26:16 GMT -5
I just started reading ATF and it is much better than buffy season 8 in my eyes. LOL 'Angel' (1-4) has always been better than 'Buffy'(4-6) in my eyes hahah...
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Dec 18, 2008 6:43:23 GMT -5
I LOVED THIS ISSUE. It got me hooked again after an okay issue 14. I was completely ok with Connor's and Groo's deaths. But I got a question. Is Illyria dead? Did Wolfram & Hart succeed in taking her down? I hope not
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Post by michellebuffyfest on Dec 18, 2008 9:58:08 GMT -5
I read the issue last night and I wanted to put my two cents into the discussion:
- I can't believe they killed Conner. I was just saying last week to Tee and Bitsy that I was afraid this would happen, but I really didn't believe it. I'm not sure how Angel will survive this. This does push my "Angel is Twilight" theory along.
- As others have said, I'm not sure why Spike's memories were given to Illyria and not Angel. Yes, Spike and Fred got along, but Angel and Fred have a stronger bond in my opinion. I did like the panel with the memories, though, especially the one were Spike and Fred are laughing.
- I was affected by Groo's death more than I thought I'd be. I think it was his last words that did me in.
- The dialogue between Wes and Angel was perfect. Lynch has really captured the character's voices. When they banter about how to take down Illyria, I couldn't help but hear the actor's voices.
- The Angel timeslip was creepy with the "making me euphoric" line. I have no idea how this is going to play out and I love it!
- I really liked the shout out to Buffy, subtle but good.
- Love, love the "Cue the music" line.
Questions:
- Why is their a blank panel on the 2nd page? Mistake, maybe?
- Is the "It all ends with a girl" line a shout out to the first episode of the Angel TV series?
- Is Illyria dead?
- Is anyone going to survive hell? Angel has lost everyone, except Spike and Lorne (Wes is a ghost, so he doesn't count).
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Post by monkeypie on Dec 18, 2008 10:37:38 GMT -5
im fairly sure the blank panel was deliberate
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Malsad
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Post by Malsad on Dec 18, 2008 10:45:37 GMT -5
i hope Lorn lives
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