Angel: After The Fall - Issue 17

[Hallow Thorn]

Nice review Pat... did anyone even die in this issue?

" wherein we learn who lived, who died, and who will be forever changed from the experience"

[patxshand]

...

[Emmie]

*shakes head*

Pat, you ready for this again?

...huh?

[Hallow Thorn]

What? now what did I do... ?

...

" wherein we learn who lived, who died, and who will be forever changed from the experience"

just wanted to see who they might have been talking about.

[patxshand]

Whahooza?

[Emmie]

Flippitywha?

[patxshand]

Schwas?

[AndrewCrossett]

My favorite things about this issue:

1. The suggestion that Fred's spirit might be out there somewhere, after all.

2. Illyria's overall awesomeness, and her determination to fight for the people and things Fred cared for.

3. Angel and Spike real friends at last, for the first time since they've both been capable of genuine friendship. And Betta George hanging out in the backseat with wiseass comments.

[Wyndam]

I am channeling my inner-super-fast-Clark-Kent-keyboard-typing-skills in order to write this, as I have three (THREE!) exams to study for, but I wanted to go ahead and get my thoughts on here.

I promise this won't be as long as what I typed for issue 16, as that was my swan song of sorts for this series, but I am sure there will be plenty of gushing in this post as well.

I'm going to start by saying that issues #15-17 are easily my favorite of the series. Not only did we get one of the best climaxes ever in #15/16, but the best ending for this series that we could have ever asked for in #17. I didn't think I was going to be surprised by this issue, as I had a general idea of what to expect, but boy was I ever surprised by a lot that took place. Angel and Nina's scene was probably the biggest surprise. Considering that Nina is far from a favorite character in the Buffyverse, and the fact that Brian didn't get to do as much with her in After the Fall as he wanted to, this scene was layered with all sorts of emotion from Nina. On the surface, the scene was really just establishing that Angel and Nina were trying to figure out what was happening with W&H, and to show us a few things that happened over the last month since L.A. was returned to normal (hilarious scene at the records office, and Groo + 2 Cordy's, hahahaha).

But what I really loved about this scene was how we kind of finally get a clear picture about what really makes Nina tick. In Season 5, I was critical about how it was clear that Nina cared more about Angel than he ever did for her, and that even continues here, but I love what Brian did. He showed us that is all Nina really needs. She wants to be there to support Angel, even if he won't ever be able to show her many feelings in return. She's okay with that, and I guess now I am too. That scene worked on sooooo many levels, and really made Nina's lack of clear purpose in After the Fall worth it, in the end.

Next surprise, was of course my favorite part of the issue (along with the Angel/Lorne/Gunn scene, and the final page), the library dedication to Fred and Wesley, and then an entire page devoted to them. That absolutely floored me, and was one of the most heartbreaking parts of the entire series. While I am extremely sad that Wesley will probably never be seen in canon again, barring flashbacks of some kind, I really enjoyed this final tribute to him and Fred. Yes, the tears were flowing here. I of course had a small issue with Wesley's name being spelled wrong on the building (Wyndam-PRYCE), but that has almost become an unspoken running gag from the show, so I am not too bent out of shape over it.

Angel and Spike's scene was another huge payoff. They have finally reached a point of mutual respect and friendship that is just wonderful. Their silent thanks to each other, relayed to us by Betta George in his usual hilarious fashion (he had some awesome dialogue in this, and that golf bag filled with weapons for Spike? PRICELESS), was really great. I also wasn't expecting the Shanshu to come up, but I like what was done here. Angel telling Spike that "no will see you coming" was also great, and I bet that will help kick start some awesome development for Spike in his upcoming series.

The scene outside the hospital was another highlight. Illyria protecting Gunn, the chat with the Lords, Spike saying he isn't ready to deal with Illyria yet, all gold. I am really looking forward to how Spike and Illyria will be interacting in the future. So much potential there.

Another favorite scene, as I already mentioned, was the hospotal scene with Gunn and Lorne. Lorne is such a fantastic character, and the fact that he was there with Gunn and didn't even have to speak with Angel spoke volumes. The smirk when he picks up Angel's card was great. He knows right away that Gunn will be in good hands when he wakes up. Angel learned with Wesley that abandoning your friends when you make a mistake only leads to more misery and pain, and Gunn is going to have his friends by his side when he wakes up. This scene reminded me a lot of the early Angel years when Angel was helping Faith. He has the experience, commitment and knowledge to put people he cares about on a redemptive path, and Gunn will benefit greatly from his help. Gwen should look into this as well.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. After the Fall is my favorite comic book series, and I have read quite a few over the last few years after Season 8 started my new obsession with this medium. Angel, my favorite show, ended almost 5 years ago and After the Fall has delivered something I never thought I'd see, a wonderful continuation of Angel's story. Not only was this one of the best stories to come out of the Buffyverse, but it complemented the series in more ways than I will ever be able to describe. For the series, I'll start with perfect, as that is exactly what it was.

I don't know where Kelley Armstrong will lead us next with Aftermath, but Brian has laid some incredible groundwork, and I can't wait to see what she does with the series. Just two weeks away too!

[Hallow Thorn]

I just bought this today... I only read a bit and I loved it...

"But then. Warm breeze. each and every time. she hates when i'm pressimistic."

so that was Fred and Wes, Brian Lynch, yes or no?...

[patxshand]

Well, it says "she." I'm thinking it's probably Cordy letting Angel know that Fred and Wes are okay, as a callback to her warm breeze/nice leaves from #9.

[BenTaylor3907]

I'm at school right now so I can't really type my whole review for this issue, which by the way was amazing. I'm finding myself feeling very sympathetic toward Gunn's character all of a sudden. Its nice to see Angel acting... rational when a friend "betrays" him like that. The bit with Angel choking Wes was a bit too harsh. Wesley thought he was doing the right thing. But whatever, that was way back in the past. It was nice to see Jeremy proposing to his fiance. Spider! I thought we were going to see her in this issue, do to her being on the cover. But I guess we'll see a lot of her in the Spike series. I just don't know how everyone is all calm and whatnot. They seem to be taking it very well for finding out that demons exist and live all around you. You know? CordyDragon's departure was a nice touch. It was obvious that he couldn't stay. Although I expected it to be more emotional. And Nina, I'm starting to like her. I guess the Hell A Nina was a little bitchy. Brian and Franco outdid themselves once again. Kudos. I'll be back to finish my review.

[iloveromy]

This may be the best comic issue I have ever read. What a beautifully written reflection. Pitch perfect. Thank you Mr. Lynch. Thank you.

Also the lack of violence was also welcomed. Very nice.

[Nicholas]

I really loved this issue. I believe it was a great closer to After The Fall and I am very excited to see where the rest of Season 6 goes. This issue touched on a lot of different topics that people have been wondering about such as Angels new found publicity. He doesnt like it and it seems that it only makes things more difficult and uncomfortable for him, but I also love how he is finally getting the respect that he deserves for all that he has done...him and his teammates. I also liked on how in Season 5 of Angel, Nina was uncomfortabke with thw Wolf and having to deal with it, but after being stuck a half wolf for months, she actually misses it because it made her slightly more important than just your average human.

One of my favorite scenes in 17 was when Angel gives the dragon to Groo. They really nailed down the character of Groo and it looked just like the actor. A great likeness. Its good that Angel realised that flying around on a dragon wouldnt exactly keep a low profile.

I also thought that it was very important to get the point across that no matter how horrible life was for the residents of L.A., no matter how much they choose to go on, their eyes have been opened and they will never forget what they have seen. this should prove very interesting to see what the townfolk do now. I thought that the part with the Lords hanging and murdering that Shark Lord was very powerful and shocking. Graphic worked well there. Its interesting to see how Gwen has been changed by what she did and no longer can forget about her bad deeds and move on. This one will haunt her.

I'm not really sure exactly how people are saying that the idea was given from this issue that Fred's spirit is still out there somewhere. I felt it was very powerful to see Fred actually showing remorse for all the killing she has done and is flooded with feelings from Fred.

The section with Fred and Wesley was very sad and moving, a great look back to the old days. Things are really going to be different now for Angel and his new team. And I''m not too sure if anyone else has noticed but Wesleys last name was also spelled Price in ATF #1. Its beautiful to know that Cordelia is watching over Angel. It was extremely powerful to see that.

Kr'ph...he is slowly becoming one of my favorite villains, not because he is so devious and naughty but because of the way he talks. Its hysterical and proof that the writers really know what they are doing. I love how he manages to go from humor to being serious in two seconds flat with a smooth transition.

The new respect that Angel and Spike is long awaited and inevitable. I think that its great that they finally reached this point in their relationship and it should prove beneficial for the future ahead. They have both been through similar experiences and both want to do the same thing, which is why it was also amazing to have Spike bring it up in the car. Maybe everything that they have seen has been altered somewhat and W&H may have actually been taken down a peg or two. I really believe that the Shanshu is possible for Spike as well and it makes me think that maybe if Spike gets the Shanshu, maybe Angel's vision wont come true.

The sign to Silverlake was hysterical. Enough said.

I was waiting to see Burge return for revenge for what Angel did to him and his son. I have a feeling he is going to play a larger role in the future, well maybe not larger, but I do forsee him returning again for Angel.

Illyria...what can we really say about her. I do not see her story being over, and I dont mean a couple issues talking about how she feels what Fred felt, but I do see something big happening to her in the future as well. Its nice to see that in some odd sort of way, she really has become a valuable member of the teen. Although, I am still not clear on why Spike doesnt want to talk to her and they have all these "emotions that neither one are comfortabke with". Explainy?

Im trying to wrap my head around the scene where Angel visits Gunn at the hospital. I think that it was huge for Angel to actually realising that Gunn didnt actually make the decisions that he did while in Hell because like Angel/Angelus, it wasnt him. And after killing Connor, Angel has a huge heart and still wants to make his friendship with Gunn work. What is everyones thoughts on the lack of talking between Lorne and Angel. My POV is that Lorne was proud of what Angel was there to do and it was a simple as that. Very moving.

The last shot of Angel really says something. It does. Basically that although Angel knows that tough times lie ahead and he doesnt know where he will stand at the very end, he will do as much for the world as he can until then. A great end for this arc. Truly. I am stoked to see what Aftermath has in store for us. So far, Angel Season 6 has been brilliant.

[iloveromy]

After a second reading while I wasn't really excited about them returning to the night of the alley, jumping ahead one month in issue 17 took away the disappointment. While I was sad to see time going back to the end of season 5, I think it's interesting that thematically I would say we are back to the beginning of season 2. Angel still has a destiny. He doesnt know how it's going to play out. He's going back to helping people seemingly on a case by case bases. I'm not afraid of hitting old territory but I hope from here on it goes in an exciting direction.

Here is my note to all involved with Angel from here on out:

If this is the medium we have Angel from now on, I say go balls out and take ownership of it. Don't be afraid to create ripples in the universe. Don't be afraid to seriously develop characters, give them life-altering problems, and dare I say permanently kill some of them off. I don't want to read a series if I know that this is just an artist take on what they think would make a good story without creating any real consequences.

PLEASE GIVE ME THE JUICE!

[hitnrun017]

Very good issue. Loved the fact that it was mostly dialogue with little to no action and focused much more on how the characters are dealing.

I was also very surprised by the part with Nina. It was cool that she was in After the Fall, but nothing happened with her. The only part that sticks out was the quick scene in issue 10 on the rooftop, and this is honestly the first time I could hear her voice in my head. It's great that she is still there helping Angel, made me really appreciate what little character she is and hopefully she shows up a couple times in Aftermath.

Very heartbroken Cordy the Dragon wont be staying around, but he got a nice farewell. Jeremy proposed, good for him, even though I don't get it cause I never finished Spike: AtF. The tiny part with Gwen was one of my favorite moments, very full circle: First Night, all she wanted to do was touch, and now... not so much. Looking forward to this being explored more in Aftermath. And poor Loan Shark. The little part with the dedication to Fred and Wesley was fantastic. Made me smile that there is a glimmer of hope they are together and happy, but I like not knowing for sure.

Big YAY for more Kr'ph, but I'm upset we didn't get a Kazlow cameo.

Ah, Spike. I know I'm probably the only one, and while the part in the car was great, I couldn't help but him a little... annoying. Illyria was shocking, kinda sad her involvement in the issue was so little, but what ever happens next with her should be brilliant. I guess Angel's grown past trying to suffocate friends in the hospital when something happens to Connor, which is great, because that was an amazing scene. The 'Angel Investigations' card made me smile with Lorne, back to the basics.

This was a great series, thanks Brian! Thank god for Aftermath because I'd be extremely upset right now.

[Brian Lynch]

Kazlow is definitely going to come back, someday, somehow.

[patxshand]

Kozlow was definitely great. Any of those demons in the "I am the new lord of Westwood" scene would be great to bring back.

[hitnrun017]

Feb 12, 2009 21:39:02 GMT -5 Brian Lynch said:

Kazlow is definitely going to come back, someday, somehow.

Sweet! Best news ever! That little demon pulls at my heartstrings.

[Neil]

I don´t think that I can add anything, that hasn´t been said. But for a guy who was never that much into comics and just giving it a try because of Buffy and Angel being Buffy and Angel ;-), I can say that I really, really liked it. Seventeen wonderful issues that played completely right. If you read all of them one after another it creates a wonderful picture and that is what matters.

And I think that Brian did a wonderful job. I read some posts where they didn´t put him on the same level as Whedon and Greenwalt. I don´t think so. Someone who is taking so much care of the characters and fans deserves to be on the same level. Thank you, Brian Lynch, for writing that piece of Art so perfectly. Can´t wait what is coming up in the Spike Series, although I´m not a huge Spike fan ;-)

To: iloveromy: Well said, nothing to ad.