Riley and Spike - Don't want to play.

[rebeccaplant]

I just realized that both say something really similar to Buffy.

-

Riley, from "Who Are You":

FAITH/BUFFY: (in a huff) Well, if you don't wanna play--

RILEY: Right. I don't wanna play.

-

And Spike, from "Once More, With Feeling":

SPIKE: “But I don't wanna play 'Cause being with you touches me. More than I can say ...”

-

Of course, both are alluding to how neither wants just part of Buffy, or in other words, just for sex – they both want all of her, as in her heart. I just thought that was an interesting connection between the two guys. If you think of them as both wanting Buffy's emotional commitment as well as physical, an interesting parallel can be drawn between the two. Both "had" her but neither (while in a relationship with her) really felt she was "all there." Riley was upset when she didn't think to tell him about Joyce's illness, and Spike was hurt she wouldn't acknowledge their relationship to her friends.

Just a thought.

Thoughts? Anyone else notice this? Or do I just think wayyyyy to much into things?

[gumgnome]

Interesting parallel in lines and feelings!

There's another between the two, which I believe ptnewell picked up a while ago:

In 'As You Were', Riley ends his conforting speech:
Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down ... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman.

Then Spike in 'Touched' ends his comforting speech with:
I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You are a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.

Again, further parallels can be made in their feelings: they are both seeing Buffy when she's at rock-bottom and getting her back up on her feet.

[Skytteflickan88]

Definitly. They're both wanting more from Buffy.

And I think they both had a equal shot with her, to be in a loving relationship with her, but they blew it.

Riley got impatient, when I think a little time would have made Buffy able to fall in love with him. I might be wrong, and he right, but leaving like he did was stupid.

Same with Spike. Okay, it's not his fault that when Buffy had started to trust him and even said "I love you"(which I recently found out she actually meant at the time, according to Joss) he was burned up and Sunnydale went byebye.

But if he had actually dared to believe she meant it, and left W&H, and gone to see Buffy, maybe they'd dated and something would have happened.

A intersting difference to notice is this; Spike stayed, clinged like a leech, while Riley left. Is this because Riley thought he could get something more out of life than Buffy and Sunnydale(which he he did, a wife and a job) while Buffy was Spike's best chance of happiness in his cold dead unlife, or did Spike love Buffy more?

[henzINNIT]

I don't think it means that Spike loved Buffy more. Riley felt like he gave up everything to be with Buffy, and she eventually chose not to save their relationship (obviously we know she was just late, but he doesn't). Spike had absolutely nothing else in his life, lol, so I think thats more to the point.
The soul is important as well. Spike spent only 1 season in the same position as Riley really. He was mostly a devoted demon stalker before season 7. Interestingly, with a soul, Spike did in fact chose to leave Buffy (or stay away anyway).

[Greer]

I think that Spike really didn't have much else to do, unfortunately(although I'm Spuffy, 100%). I would like to think that Spike loved her more, but it more obsessive for at least 2 seasons(5,6), since he was sans a soul. I know that Riley did love her, but he also had a lot of other opportunities in front of him, which Spike did not. He was fully aware and able to comprehend that Buffy never loved him in the way that she loved Angel. Was Spike able to realize this, without a soul? I don't really think so.

[rebeccaplant]

Jun 27, 2009 4:43:12 GMT -5 gumgnome said:

Interesting parallel in lines and feelings!

There's another between the two, which I believe ptnewell picked up a while ago:

In 'As You Were', Riley ends his conforting speech:
Wheel never stops turning, Buffy. You're up, you're down ... it doesn't change what you are. And you are a hell of a woman.

Then Spike in 'Touched' ends his comforting speech with:
I've seen the best and the worst of you and I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You are a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy.

Again, further parallels can be made in their feelings: they are both seeing Buffy when she's at rock-bottom and getting her back up on her feet.

I never noticed that! Great find. Reinforces my claim that the two have a lot in common.

[Emmie]

Here's some very interesting meta analysis by Elisi of Buffy and Riley vs. Buffy and Spike. Click to read

[rebeccaplant]

Jun 27, 2009 5:42:25 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

A interesting difference to notice is this; Spike stayed, clinged like a leech, while Riley left. Is this because Riley thought he could get something more out of life than Buffy and Sunnydale (which he he did, a wife and a job) while Buffy was Spike's best chance of happiness in his cold dead un-life, or did Spike love Buffy more?

I believe Riley leaving was a decision made impulsively and desperately. After Forrest told him that he was better than being "The Slayers boyfriend" I think he started feeling insecure about his place in Sunnydale. The last straw was Buffy not bothering to tell him about her mother's illness. I think he truly wanted to make it work with Buffy, but he knew deep down she didn't love him. Yet, I do believe Riley loved her very much. He showed it everyday. Before he started allowing the vampires to suck on his blood, he was a great, caring boyfriend to her. He just, in the big picture, is the kind of guy who can't deal with being with a girl who is a.) stronger than him and b.) not "fully" emotionally there. And when Riley was given the opportunity to leave and get a job, he took it, thinking he knew it wouldn't work out with Buffy anyway, and he didn't want to be in a situation where he was stuck in Sunnydale with no purpose. Also, let's not forget that the Initiative, the military work, was a part of who Riley was just as much as being the Slayer is a part of Buffy. Didn't he say something to he effect that it was all he ever knew, or something? He truly cared about his "mission" and without that, he wasn't sure who he was. Unlike Buffy, who already had a mission and an identity she had created for herself, Riley had his created for him - with his military work. The TA thing was just a cover, I think. When all that was taken away from him - or if you prefer to think of it as him giving it up for Buffy - he had no idea what to do. In other words, Riley was at a different place then Buffy was, possibly not as comfortable with himself as she was with herself, they just were not compatible.

Do I think he loved her more than Spike did? Who knows. I don't like ultimate questions like that. They both loved (love?) her very much. Riley, like Spike, was willing to give up everything for the chance to be with her, as long as she returned the emotional favor. Spike was willing to give up what made him a vampire, he was willing to castrate himself and get a soul to be the man she deserved. I don't think Spike stayed fighting for her because he thought she was his only chance at happiness. I don't think he consciously thought that. Spike is the kind of guy that, when he puts his mind to something, he follows through. He fought for her, stood by her side, allowed her to abuse him, use him - because he honestly thought he could win her over with his devotion. And he did. Sort of. Who knows what would have happened if he hadn't died in Chosen.

[menomegirl]

Jun 27, 2009 14:42:32 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Here's some very interesting meta analysis by Elisi of Buffy and Riley vs. Buffy and Spike. Click to read

I remember that meta/essay. It was one of the few B/R essays I've seen that I found to be fair to the relationship. I didn't agree with everything Elisi wrote (I wished that she hadn't compared B/R with B/S) but it was still quite impressive.