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Post by hitnrun017 on May 5, 2009 14:10:55 GMT -5
Great post! I completely agree with everything you said about Ballard. In some ways I find him more creepy than the people who work at the Dollhouse.
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Skeptic
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:24]
Posts: 344
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Post by Skeptic on May 6, 2009 8:33:56 GMT -5
One thing I know for sure now, Miracle Laurie is one of the best parts of this show. Whenever she's on, I'm rapt with attention.
That's not to say the other characters get ignored. I love watching them and seeing how they react and the little clues they drop when they say things. Sort of like the "whiskey" line. I don't think that was a throwback to Indiana Jones, y'know?
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Post by Rebecca on May 6, 2009 8:55:45 GMT -5
The whiskey line stuck out to me on first view, but I didn't make the connection until I started reading forums. I love watching Victor, Sierra, and November. For that matter Adelle as well. And Topher. Their mannerisms are always spot on. Alpha so far has been a treat, but one episode is difficult to tell  |
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Post by MrKittyFantastico on May 6, 2009 14:30:39 GMT -5
Briar Rose really was beyond fantastic - Alan Tudyk really stole the show. It was amazing how he switched so effortlessly from comedy to scary. Obviously, a lot of that is owed to Jane Espenson's fantastic writing, but they both really made this episode. Can't wait to see what happens!
I suspected that he'd end up being Alpha, though, after he put on that other Doll's shirt and we saw how incredibly ripped he was. It just sort of clicked.
I must say, though, whilst I did pick up on the "Whisky" name drop, I didn't assume it was Dr Saunders. I figured Mr Dominic/Victor was just talking about another Doll somewhere else. It wasn't until I came into this topic and saw the extra reference through Alpha's dialogue with her about always wanting to be a doctor that it occured to me. Now it really seems to make sense.
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on May 7, 2009 5:09:27 GMT -5
If Saunders really is an “ex doll” which is looking more and more likely, it adds whole new layers to her POV in ‘Needs.’ Remember when her and Boyd come into conflict about her test and how she believes the Dolls couldn’t handle the outside world? What if she’s speaking from experience? I’d find that really fascinating.
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Post by Rebecca on May 7, 2009 10:15:19 GMT -5
Totally! She probably has it in her protocol to take care of all the dolls needs, so that may have instigated her idea in "Needs", and quite possibly, the others knowing she's a doll could have padded the merit behind her idea and prompting them to act on it although it was quite risky.
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●B E N
Rogue Demon Hunter
♥ Goodness Gracious ♥
Crazy Echo[Mo0:4]
Posts: 454
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Post by ●B E N on May 7, 2009 10:31:02 GMT -5
Oh wow. That would be amazing if Amy turned out to be a doll. I never even thought of that... The whiskey line i thought was so weird... but after reading what you guys posted.. im sold on the idea.  |
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sarahi
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 101
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Post by sarahi on May 8, 2009 8:40:41 GMT -5
I agree with vampmogs about Paul. At first I was just a little creeped out by his fixation on Caroline, but now his character is increasingly irritating. Echo still can't speak for herself despite her memory flashes, but Boyd's intentions during that fight weren't as unsettling as Paul's. It would be funny if it turned out that Caroline wasn't real, that she was just part of Rossum's research or something.
It's becoming more apparent, to me anyway, that there's something to the Whiskey theory. One thing I noticed about that scene was Adelle's reaction after hearing that Dominick wanted Whiskey. If Whiskey was indeed an Active, there could be a story there.
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 8, 2009 10:46:29 GMT -5
On the topic of Paul being creepy.
I don't if this has been said yet because I havn't read over all the posts but what is up with hime dreaming of wanting to have sex with her thats major creepy.
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rmw
Potential Slayer
I touch the fire and it freezes me[Mo0:25]
Posts: 102
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Post by rmw on May 8, 2009 18:38:22 GMT -5
It aggravated me so much when Paul Ballard just totally ignored November in her pod and went straight for Caroline. He has some messed up love for her. It's not right.
Loved Alan Tudyk in this episode. The whole thing surprised me, but in a good way. Can't wait for tonight's episode.
I wonder what's going to happen to Victor? I was so upset that he got cut up like that. Also, I wonder which doll will be permanently deactivated? I read somewhere that was supposed to happen tonight.
Any word on a season 2?
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on May 8, 2009 18:47:16 GMT -5
It aggravated me so much when Paul Ballard just totally ignored November in her pod and went straight for Caroline. He has some messed up love for her. It's not right. Loved Alan Tudyk in this episode. The whole thing surprised me, but in a good way. Can't wait for tonight's episode. I wonder what's going to happen to Victor? I was so upset that he got cut up like that. Also, I wonder which doll will be permanently deactivated? I read somewhere that was supposed to happen tonight. Any word on a season 2? I hated how he did that also. And the way he treated her at the start of the episode. Still no news on season two but its looking better than every now, so fingers crossed ;D |
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Post by Emmie on May 8, 2009 19:16:34 GMT -5
Thankfully, I'm not alone here with the slight head scratchy convenience of the Paul finding Alpha as Keppler thing. So I'm rewatching Briar Rose in anticipation of the finale tonight and thought about this. The only reason Paul knows to follow Mellie back to the Dollhouse is because someone messed with her imprint and revealed to him that Mellie was a doll. Now we know that Alpha has been sending messages to the Dollhouse and it's assumed that that disc was for Dominic and from the NSA. But we know that it's actually from Alpha. That Alpha has been in communication with someone in the Dollhouse - I'm speculating here that it's Dr. Saunders who Alpha has his claws into somehow and that it relates to her being Whiskey. But looking back, I don't think it's surprising that Paul found Keppler at that point in time because here's how I think it went down: 1) Alpha has Mellie reveal to Paul that she's a doll. 2) Alpha murders Keppler and takes his place, then doctors up information about Keppler to have his own picture on it into the FBI database. 3) Paul follows Mellie to the Dollhouse. Researches the building and discovers Keppler had done some work on it. 4) Paul finds Keppler!Alpha. So whoever is messing with Echo and November's imprints is doing so at Alpha's behest. |
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Post by Rebecca on May 13, 2009 12:59:39 GMT -5
That's definitely a merited theory, Emmie. However, I just don't view it that way. I am 90% convinced that the person responsible for imprinting messages to Ballard has no idea about Alpha. Or at least, didn't when the messages were sent.
The suspicious murkiness of the whole circumstance where Ballard conveniently knocks on Keppler's door the day after he uploaded, killed, and dumped Keppler is not lost on me. I also see how easy it would be to write Alpha imprinting a mole and manufacturing a background (which he did in Target) to send those messages (I'm thinking of Ivy specifically here). Though without a specific connection between Ballard's research into Keppler and Alpha or Alpha and the message implanter, it'll be difficult for me to believe that theory.
Don't get me wrong: it is completely possible. I just view the message-sender as someone with a conscience within the dollhouse. It would completely blow my mind if the only person I could view with enough moral conscience to work against the dollhouse from the inside was planted by a psychopath. On the other hand, it would completely fit with the way in which Joss is choosing to write this series.
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xanderholic
Common Vampire
is surpised at how much you can miss alcohol![Mo0:0]
Posts: 51
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Post by xanderholic on Jun 1, 2009 13:06:32 GMT -5
As Alpha: His scene with Claire was very good. Alan really worked the serial killer mojo. He's Echo's Prince? Like I said, I really didn't see that coming. I'm left not really knowing how to feel about Alpha or Echo. I got the impression that they weren't referring to Alpha as Echo's prince but as Crystal's (the Whiskey 1.1 imprint). Crystal was trapped inside a wedge just like Briar Rose was trapped inside her own immobile body. |
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Post by Rebecca on Jun 6, 2009 19:06:44 GMT -5
As Alpha: His scene with Claire was very good. Alan really worked the serial killer mojo. He's Echo's Prince? Like I said, I really didn't see that coming. I'm left not really knowing how to feel about Alpha or Echo. I got the impression that they weren't referring to Alpha as Echo's prince but as Crystal's (the Whiskey 1.1 imprint). Crystal was trapped inside a wedge just like Briar Rose was trapped inside her own immobile body. I'm not sure if you've had the opportunity to watch Omega yet, but I got the impression that Alpha was not attempting to free Crystal, but rather used the Crystal imprint on Echo in order to free her from the Dollhouse. He used Crystal as his *kiss* to wake Echo from her slumber. |
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xanderholic
Common Vampire
is surpised at how much you can miss alcohol![Mo0:0]
Posts: 51
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Post by xanderholic on Jun 7, 2009 1:28:24 GMT -5
I got the impression that they weren't referring to Alpha as Echo's prince but as Crystal's (the Whiskey 1.1 imprint). Crystal was trapped inside a wedge just like Briar Rose was trapped inside her own immobile body. I'm not sure if you've had the opportunity to watch Omega yet, but I got the impression that Alpha was not attempting to free Crystal, but rather used the Crystal imprint on Echo in order to free her from the Dollhouse. He used Crystal as his *kiss* to wake Echo from her slumber. Oh yes, I have definitely seen it (repeatedly, in fact, lol) but why couldn't it be both? Alpha "freeing" Echo / Bobby "freeing" Crystal. Remember the scene in the car? Crystal reminicing to Alpha/Bobby how he "saved" her from/took her out of that first place when she was 13. Seems to me, no matter which way you slice it, both interpretations pretty much boil down to the same thing. |
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Post by Rebecca on Jun 7, 2009 19:11:12 GMT -5
I see what you're saying now, definitely. The BobbyCrystal/AlphaEcho thing was a neat parallel, but for me at least, that line of thinking isn't really congruent with the information we get from watching Alpha in Omega: that personalities are tools the composites use to conduct their way through life. I didn't see Bobby doing anything, he wasn't driving that train. The focus was always Echo, not Crystal. I think in Omega, Alpha digressed into the Bobby persona to communicate with Crystal, but in the end, Bobby was a means to an end, as was Crystal.
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Post by joxerlives on Apr 15, 2010 5:16:14 GMT -5
BRIAR ROSE The good; Totally had me fooled with Alpha (partly because his agorophobic uber-geek and Ballard makes such a great team). Stunning performance on both counts. You really feel for Mellie when Ballard dumps her. Great performance from the actress who plays the little girl too. Dominic asking for 'Whiskey' is a masterful bit of foreshadowing and Ballard is one smart cookie with his plan (but not as much as you-know-who). The bad; Alpha's plan seems unecessarily complicated? Ballard says he doesn't have a badge any more but then he shows one to 'Kepler' (did he swipe Loomis'?) Best line; Adele; "There's indignation enough for everyone to have seconds" reprogrammed Echo upon seeing Alpha "My prince" Packing heat; Both Boyd and Ballard with their pistols again. Ballard also uses a stungun on Topher. Echo;6 Boyd; 7 Dominic; 7 Sierra; 3 Victor; 2 Ballard; 8 Echo kissage;2 She plants a big old smackaroo on Alpha, so much so it cuts her lip Kinky dinky; Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost; Echo; 3 definite, 1 possible November; 1 Ballard; 1 Victor; 1 Adele; 1 Sierra 1 possible Topher; 1 possible How'd they get away with that? Watching Alpha slicing up Victor is HORRIBLE! The little girl's plight is also horrific but at least she has a chance to recover. Also hard to watch Ballard cruelly dumping Mellie and her near suicide. Plus Alpha's recycled urine. This weeks fantasy; Topher has made Echo into a grown up, healthy version of the damaged little girl in order to counsel her, Alpha turns her into a white trash princess. Sierra is a CSI girl (her technobabble may be a subtle joke on them). Victor is Dominic Total number personalitites; Echo; 19 Sierra; 9 Victor; 6 November; 2 Total dolls; add Alpha so 7 Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango, Alpha Addy is a bit British; Topher is a bit geeky; He actually uses the phrase 'All frakked up'. Subverting the Hollywood cliche; Amanda lets Echo sit near her, not because she trusts her but because she has flicknife concealed on her. Bondage; Boyd puts Ballard in handcuffs (presumably his own?) Sierra tied up; 1 Ballard; 1 Knocked out; Toper get's tasered into unconsciousness by Ballard Echo; 2 November; 1 Sierra; 1 Victor; 1 Topher; 1 Kills; Sierra; 2 kills Echo; 1 November;1 Dolls injured;. Poor Victor, traumatised by Ballard and Boyd crashing down on top of him and then cut to ribbons by Alpha. Capt subtext; Check out the very caring, maternal way Dr Saunders helps Victor who really comes across as a frightened child. The Briar Rose story has a feminist slant on it similar to Buffy, Amanda and Echo prefer the ending where the Briar Rose saves herself. Echo says that Amanda is "Close to moving forwards but it'll hurt" just as she is. Interestingly when Ballard asks Alpha is he Kepler he replies "Well there are a lot of aspects to that question" . He also refers to the Dollhouse as 'The New Eden' which it just might be. He asks Dr Saunders if she always wanted to be a Dr and when she says yes tells her that's a lie. Happy hookers The little girl seems to have been exploited as a child prostitute by her mother's boyfriend. All the Dolls in the Dollhouse are above the age of consent but only those we've seen (and only in LA). Know the face? Alan Tudyk was Wash on Firefly/Serenity 7 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock, Gregg Henry, Alan Tudyk Guantanamo; Drugging and torturing Dominic who's on a day trip out of the attic, very hard to watch (great performance from Enver, really nails Reed Diamond in his mannerisms). Sending Echo to help the little girl is everybodys way of living with themselves. Fanfic; The adventures of doomed lovers Echo and Alpha disturbingly popular. The little girl's story reminded me of a Buffy fanfic where we learn why Faith is as screwed up as she is and Buffy, Joyce and Dawn help her get over it and adopt her as a new Summers girl www.fanfiction.net/s/3089247/1/Thanks_for_taking_care_of_my_body_FaithMissing scenes;. Reminds me off; Breaking the programming; Questions and observations; So, the headquarters for the whole Dollhouse project is in Tuscon? Can anyone tell me exactly WHY Alpha is hiding naked in a dumpster when he kills the homeless man? Or am I trying to find logic in the actions of a madman? Note when Ballard finally gets into the Dollhouse he says 'It really exists', he'd obviously begun to doubt his own sanity. 'We call that editing' may be a subtle joke on the crew. Alpha thinks the Dollhouse is a good place but with bad people. I hate stairs without risers too, always fear I'm going to fall through them. Note Boyd gives Ballard a way out, he's not going to turn him in if he can help it. Surely consensual slavery is a contradiction in terms, if it's consensual it's not slavery? The Dollhouse we see was only built ten years ago despite the rumours dating from the 80s. Marks out of 10; 9/10 really good |
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