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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 13, 2009 20:51:43 GMT -5
You would think that with vampire spokesmodel Harmony sitting there on a major international TV show and saying things like "We're driven to kill," somewhere out in the audience police officers and government officials and relatives of vampire victims would be saying to themselves, "Hey... isn't there something wrong here?"
I can only buy this state of affairs if the human race is under some kind of blanket spell that's distorting their thinking. That's certainly possible... even a nobody like Jonathan Levinson was able to get a spell cast that altered the perception of everyone in the world with regard to him. This would have to be a more powerful spell than that, because it causes people to act directly against their own interests and safety.
The spell doesn't seem to affect Slayers or their immediate associates, but maybe it's too subtle to actually replace people's direct knowledge... maybe it only influences people who had little or no direct knowledge of vampires or Slayers, and can't make people believe things they already knew to be false.
I'm not really sure why the "popular vampires" storyline was necessary to create an "unpopular Slayers" storyline. It seems like an unnecessary and illogical complication. The fact that Slayers are mysterious, shadowy people with strange powers who live among us and aren't answerable to the law or the government, would have been enough to fuel paranoia. And all you have to do is look at the news lately to see how easy it is for paranoia to turn into hysteria.
The fact that some Slayers, like Simone, are behaving like real terrorists would just underline the situation.
Which is easier to buy:
"Slayers are hated because they're alien, mysterious, dangerous and uncontrollable."
or
"Slayers are hated because they fight against the self-admittedly evil creatures who live among us and kill us for food."
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on Aug 13, 2009 21:46:23 GMT -5
I'm not really sure why the "popular vampires" storyline was necessary to create an "unpopular Slayers" storyline. My best guess is that they wanted to highlight how differently things have changed, "the thing about changing the world, once you do it the world's all different." I agree that you could just as easily create a storyline where the slayers are feared without the vampire storyline (and they did up until Harmonic Divergence) but I think it was done to try and signify how the slayers are the public enemy now. It's basically saying "hey remember when it used to be as simple as sticking wood into the bad guys?" Now the slayers can't be slayers and what better way to show that then having their arch nemesis’s become publicly loved and accepted? I'd actually 100% support a spell as well and didn't Allie hint at that in a Q/A? I could swear he said something like "there may be some magic involved." Maybe I've just gone loopy!
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 13, 2009 23:17:55 GMT -5
I'd actually 100% support a spell as well and didn't Allie hint at that in a Q/A? I could swear he said something like "there may be some magic involved." Maybe I've just gone loopy! Yeah, that was in response to a question I asked about it. I wasn't sure whether he meant it seriously or if he was just being sarcastic about someone asking if there was magic involved in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer story. I'd honestly made my peace with the Popular Vamps storyline... Buffyverse civilians are notoriously slow on the uptake, after all. But here we have Harmony sitting there, happily admitting that vampires are evil and driven to kill people, and turn people they really like into soulless killers like themselves... It seemed to me, though, that Colbert's "WTF Alarm" was, if not beeping, at least vibrating. I wonder if that's a sign that the more perceptive and well-informed people in the world are beginning to shake their heads and say "Hey.... wait a minute..." Maybe when the time comes for Buffy to make her Desperate Last Stand this season, she'll have more friends in the world than she expected to have.
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Aug 14, 2009 0:17:27 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe magic is not necessary at all... we seem all to be forgetting that slayers by definition all are supernaturally strong and they go out in daylight and generally speaking can be anybody around you - your neighbors' younger daughter, etc. People tend to be generally cautious even of people who are proficient in martial arts ( and I mean seriously proficient ). For example I know that my son's karate trainer is the nicest sweetest guy ever - and good with kids etc. I also know he can kill me with one kick or hand swipe, and don't blink an eye. Generally I don't allow myself to think much about it , but if there was paranoia campaign going on tv say about rogue martial art shadowy organization I can imagine many would be affected. It is in human nature to be affected by mass madness. Vampires on other hand seem like something almost unreal, not here , dwellers of the night, inhabitants of he shadowy alley where middle class folks don't venture. Sorta like gangs. PLus Harmony gives all that a romantic spin - again sort of like gangster movies and such. Vampires is something that 'does not happen to me' every day. Slayers do. Well, in any case that was my attempt at analysis.
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Marcos
Novice Witch
Define "human".[Mo0:30]
Posts: 210
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Post by Marcos on Aug 14, 2009 1:34:23 GMT -5
You would think that with vampire spokesmodel Harmony sitting there on a major international TV show and saying things like "We're driven to kill," somewhere out in the audience police officers and government officials and relatives of vampire victims would be saying to themselves, "Hey... isn't there something wrong here?" I can only buy this state of affairs if the human race is under some kind of blanket spell that's distorting their thinking. That's certainly possible... even a nobody like Jonathan Levinson was able to get a spell cast that altered the perception of everyone in the world with regard to him. This would have to be a more powerful spell than that, because it causes people to act directly against their own interests and safety. The spell doesn't seem to affect Slayers or their immediate associates, but maybe it's too subtle to actually replace people's direct knowledge... maybe it only influences people who had little or no direct knowledge of vampires or Slayers, and can't make people believe things they already knew to be false. I'm not really sure why the "popular vampires" storyline was necessary to create an "unpopular Slayers" storyline. It seems like an unnecessary and illogical complication. The fact that Slayers are mysterious, shadowy people with strange powers who live among us and aren't answerable to the law or the government, would have been enough to fuel paranoia. And all you have to do is look at the news lately to see how easy it is for paranoia to turn into hysteria. The fact that some Slayers, like Simone, are behaving like real terrorists would just underline the situation. Which is easier to buy: "Slayers are hated because they're alien, mysterious, dangerous and uncontrollable." or "Slayers are hated because they fight against the self-admittedly evil creatures who live among us and kill us for food." God, Andrew, you just said everything that's buggin' me since Predators and Prey! I love you man I couldn't have said it any better. Well, you already said everything, but I'd just like to add that I'm truly, positively hoping that there is a blanket spell. The whole arc is a big metaphor about how much power the media and entertainment industry have upon people's concepts and points of view, and I'm sure that giving it a magical origin doesn't make it any less metaphorical. It wouldn't be necessary if it was the media making people buy something like "Saddam will destroy democracy". This stuff happens all the time. But in this case, the world population is suddenly ok with souless bloodsuckers living among them! It's like saying "hey pal, I'm a blood-thirsty serial killer. I'm your new neighbor" "Oh, you are? Nice to meet you. Would you stay for dinner?". It's just ludicrous not to have something magical behind the media influence. The thing about vampires going public in True Blood works really well without any magical origin BUT, in TB, they are only accepted (by the law and by a really minor part of the population) because most of them agreed not to drink from humans anymore. Harmony clearly says that they do kill humans, but that's ok 'cause they can't really control it. Society kills animals that could harm people, and they arrest people who could harm people. But living-dead creatures who murder people are treated as "trendy"? C'mon... Tales of the Vampires was a really good story and it really made sense, but not every person in the world is an apathetic and amoral teenager who likes the danger and emotion of the vampirism. I trust Joss. I hope it'll make sense in the end.
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Post by CowboyGuy on Aug 14, 2009 4:46:45 GMT -5
Could it be that Willow, months before the start of Season 8 (in her away time with Vasuki) did something that caused this mess? Maybe this is some sort of consequence to something Willow received, etc. That would explain a betrayal even if Willow isn't fully aware, and it would also explain her line in Anywhere But Here of "I won't betray you...anymore than I already have". I'm seeing that people in other countries cannot access this, so here: COPYRIGHT DARK HORSE/MYSPACE!
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Iceeh★
Bad Ass Wicca
Also, Angels.
Somewhere, along in the bitterness.[Mo0:7]
Posts: 2,298
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Post by Iceeh★ on Aug 14, 2009 5:32:43 GMT -5
Harmony and Stephen Colbert. My life is complete.
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nickb123
Innocent Bystander
Take your time.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 41
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Post by nickb123 on Aug 14, 2009 6:47:48 GMT -5
"Slayers are hated because they're alien, mysterious, dangerous and uncontrollable." Definitely that one. I don't know if the public love vamps, but we fear what we don't understand, and with understanding comes tolerance. The vamps revealing themselves may not be well-received by everyone, but they're no long scary. Slayers on the other hand are keeping themselves on the down-low, making them a much bigger target. I don't think Soledad helped trying to kill off the vamp poster girl. About a spell, it's possible - I mean maybe the Slay crew are immune because they've been exposed to magic... by having the briefest of understanding allows your awareness to protect you from magical suggestion/persuasion. It's probably Amy running the show if this is the case. I don't get though why Buffy doesn't make an appearance on TV... I know there are rules, but the rules have clearly changed now that people know about vampires and magic. It would make them a target, but let's face it they're already targets.
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Aug 14, 2009 10:25:31 GMT -5
The more I see of Harmony in season 8; the more I don't like it. Her whole storyline is hugely unrealistic. Even though Buffy's world is a fantasy world, they've always had a certain level of realism in it. Harmony used to be the funny vampire blond that would make us laugh and go away. Now she's famous? I'm not buying it. I know this is mainly me arguing against the vampires-are-out idea but Harmony's one of the central figures in it. And here, I thought I would never have too much Harm.
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on Aug 14, 2009 12:05:45 GMT -5
i'm quite mad about the vampire-are-out ideia... but i've always trusted joss... so... i'm buying it... and i liked this mini story... it was good to see more of this part of the story... cause as someone already stated the predator and prey left a little blur... i hope everything cleared up by the end of the season... i liked harmony. i like the way she do things for her only... its good for her, she's doing it. about the spell... i'm not quite sure if theres a spell on people... lets hope everything work it out
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Post by Rebecca on Aug 14, 2009 12:21:51 GMT -5
I think the point is, it's magic. Also people are more willing to believe the lie than the truth.
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Reluctant Hero
Potential Slayer
To read makes our speaking English good. [Mo0:15]
Posts: 104
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Post by Reluctant Hero on Aug 14, 2009 15:10:50 GMT -5
I love the fact that Harmony is a public vampire and is making an appearance on the Colbert Report. The idea of Harmony being the spokes person for anything is really funny.
Oh and the "feeding to live" thing is crap in my opinion. Sure you have to feed but you don't have to kill. Being a vampire isn't a moral a get out of jail free pass. But they are demons so it's to be expected.
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Post by VampSlayer on Aug 14, 2009 15:19:13 GMT -5
I take it Twilight's got to Harmony too then? If she wants to end magic...
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Aug 14, 2009 15:58:30 GMT -5
Strange. Funny, but strange. I somewhat bought the public buying into vampires until this. They know vampires are evil. They know vampires are killers. And yet... there is no opposition? Social commentary aside, had this been the real world, 90% of the public would be against vampires. True Blood shows a realistic situation, where some accept vampires and some don't. They show why some do and why some don't. If we're to believe that EVERYONE is supporting vampires, give us a reason why... I mean, are we supposed to buy that every single person that isn't a slayer is a blithering idiot? You would have to be one to buy what Harmony is saying here.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 14, 2009 16:10:16 GMT -5
I take it Twilight's got to Harmony too then? If she wants to end magic... I've always assumed Twilight was behind Harmony's show, but you're right... this is the most explicit confirmation so far of that connection. It's the first we've been told that Harmony wants to end magic, not just Slayers.
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Post by faithswatcher on Aug 14, 2009 18:32:42 GMT -5
Am i the only one who likes Joss's take on vampires are 'good' and 'cool'. I know its not exactly real life, but with Buffy/Twilight film/True blood and other 'cool' images of vampires, with a little persuasion i could see all the fan girls/boys loving real life vampires if they were found out to be real. I dont think the story was handled as well as it could have been, but yes i love the idea, its very mirror image of the world we live in with vampires being the 'in' thing at the minute. And with a blonde dipsy (loveable?) young woman to lead the crusade of "love us! you know not all of us kill, i used to drink pigs blood as to not kill humans". I think its believable anyway, anyone else with me?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 14, 2009 19:00:37 GMT -5
The concept is fine; the execution is poor. (Or at least it seems to be at this point.)
It's fine to put a twist like this in the story, but it has to be supported a bit better than by just saying "everyone believes this because people are stupid and gullible."
In 2009, we can't even get people to universally believe that the earth is round; yet everyone believes vampires are a good thing because a ditzy blonde goes on television and looks cute, despite openly saying "we're evil and we're constantly killing you and feeding on you."
I have to observe that, even if there is magic involved, Twilight is making a big mistake by hooking so much of his Evil Master Plan on a goofball like Harmony. She's his Achilles Heel... all she has to do is offer an olive branch to the Slayers in public, and things start to come crashing down.
As for how Harmony could be convinced to change her tune on the Slayers... I can envision a future issue in which we see Harmony in a secret late-night tryst with someone, and then, revealed on the final page... is Spike.
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Post by Wyndam on Aug 14, 2009 19:32:42 GMT -5
The concept is fine; the execution is poor. (Or at least it seems to be at this point. I completely agree. The "Vamps Are In" storyline just does not work for me, at all. I am fine with this type of storyline happening, but why the horrible behind the scenes execution? Vampires becoming known to the public could have been (and should have been) one of the biggest events the Buffyverse has seen. Yet, in Season 8, it's a poor afterthought. Mehzers.
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Secret Scoobie
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Puts words in word places
Shiny![Mo0:32]
Posts: 2,702
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Post by Secret Scoobie on Aug 15, 2009 6:16:25 GMT -5
Sorry to be the dumb one in this thread but can someone explain the references to me? I don't get most of it! Is it cos I'm no American? hehe.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Aug 15, 2009 8:12:48 GMT -5
Sorry to be the dumb one in this thread but can someone explain the references to me? I don't get most of it! Is it cos I'm no American? hehe. Well, let's see... Stephen Colbert is a comedian and interviewer who has a show called The Colbert Report (pronounced: Cole-Bare Re-Pore) on the Comedy Central channel. He's very popular and is known for interviewing major political figures. His popularity makes it almost mandatory for them to appear on his show, but he is feared by them for his ability to manipulate them into making fools of themselves and exposing their own hypocrisy or ignorance. All without ever breaking character or speaking a serious or confrontational word. The "banking industry" reference of course refers to the recent worldwide banking crisis sparked by "bloodsucking" speculators and unethical investment managers. "The View" is a fairly popular talk show in which a group of women sit around discussing (and often arguing about) current affairs. "Barbara" is veteran journalist Barbara Walters, the host of the show. The "Colbert bump" refers to the bump in popularity and notoriety people get after appearing on the Colbert Report.
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