Did Buffy love Spike or was he just convenient?

[Saturn 5]

We're up to Smashed on the Buffytube rewatch part of the forum.

It always struck me that Spike really was a substitute for Angel. Buffy needed someone having returned from the dead. Giles, Riley Faith and Angel are gone, Willow and Xander are spoken for and Dawn is out of the question unless you're into some pretty extreme fetish fanfic. Who does that leave? Who's always around when she's miserable?

But after that it seemed to grow into more, she seemed to develop genuine feelings for him, for good or ill he was her boyfriend to the extent that she feels jealousy in Hells Bells when he has a date. When he gets his soul back she appreciates the depth of his feeling for her. It ends with her telling him she loves him but he finally comes to terms that she doesn't. But there is SOMETHING between them

[Skytteflickan88]

She was in love with him when they clasped hands in Chosen. I heard that's what Joss said at a convention. So the question is;

How long has she loved him? A year, a month, a minute?

(Of course, maybe Joss was quoted wrong and he just said "love" not "in love".)

I personally think that she started to think of his as a person in Intervention, when she seem to realize that what he feels is real. But when did she start to like him for him and not just as a way to relieve some tension, physical and emotional? That's anyone's guess.

But early in season 7, Buffy says; "Why does people think I'm still in love with Spike?"

I think that a writer screwed up when they wrote that line. I mean, come on, Buffy confesses love for Spike for the first time and it's said like that? In the midst of a unserious conversation (I think she was folding laundry with Willow). I think the writers just assumed she was had been in love with him and it was general knowledge. Anyway, it's part of canon know.

Maybe that line meant that she has been in love with him in season 6. Maybe that was why she had to stop sleeping with him, because it was hurting her to use him without intending to make a real relationship out of what they had? Or maybe she had fallen in love in season 7, and that line was a slip of the tounge by her unconsious.

[Saturn 5]

Nov 29, 2009 8:38:20 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

She was in love with him when they clasped hands in Chosen. I heard that's what Joss said at a convention. So the question is;

How long has she loved him? A year, a month, a minute?

(Of course, maybe Joss was quoted wrong and he just said "love" not "in love".)

I personally think that she started to think of his as a person in Intervention, when she seem to realize that what he feels is real. But when did she start to like him for him and not just as a way to relieve some tension, physical and emotional? That's anyone's guess.

But early in season 7, Buffy says; "Why does people think I'm still in love with Spike?"

I think that a writer screwed up when they wrote that line. I mean, come on, Buffy confesses love for Spike for the first time and it's said like that? In the midst of a unserious conversation (I think she was folding laundry with Willow). I think the writers just assumed she was had been in love with him and it was general knowledge. Anyway, it's part of canon know.

Maybe that line meant that she has been in love with him in season 6. Maybe that was why she had to stop sleeping with him, because it was hurting her to use him without intending to make a real relationship out of what they had? Or maybe she had fallen in love in season 7, and that line was a slip of the tounge by her unconsious.

That's a great point, I think she did love Spike and was in love with him for a time but it was never what she and Angel had (or indeed what she and Riley had?)

[gumgnome]

This is a really tough question to answer, mainly because I'm not convinced that Buffy knows herself. He's certainly convenient in "Smashed", but I think that she's also willing to degrade herself at this point. She wants to throw her life away and be wrong so that she doesn't have to deal with all of the pressures on her. There's no doubt in my mind that she respects him and cares for him by the end of Season 7 - perhaps more than any of the Scoobies at that point, but I'm not sure there can be a definitive answer as to whether she loves him.

[hellmouth]

I don't think that Buffy was ever in love with Spike. I am sure that she 'loved' him, but I don't think she was ever 'in love' with him. Buffy seems to view love in terms of the epic/tragic/passionate situation like what she had with Angel. Compared that with her relationship with Riley, one guy who she should have easily fallen in love with. She didn't feel that spark. Spike is the contrast to that, the one who is all wrong for her, who she used to be self destructive through much of season 6. I think that Buffy couldn't have felt that passionate epic love for Spike. Her love for him grew into an appreciation for who he was and what he had done for her.

[Hellbound Hyperion]

There are whole fanfics written about this topic, I'm sure of it.

Me, I think the act of allowing his chip to be removed was a symbol of trust that goes beyond what she'd already been doing for him. The chip was sort of like a safety net - he couldn't be violent to humans, which made him safe around the various houses of Buffy and her friends. Removing that chip was huge.

As for their relationship in Season Six... disastrous, for both of them. I think Spike accepted it if only because he was finally bangin' a Slayer, and I think Buffy accepted it because she needed some way to cope with her sudden resurrection, but I believe it isn't what either of them wanted. And after all, those episodes are titled with euphemisms for being drunk - "Smashed", "Wrecked", and "Gone". Maybe it was good at the time, but they couldn't have sustained that relationship without adding in more emotional components - something which Spike was incapable of doing, since he lacked a soul.

[willowsummers]

I think Buffy's feelings for Spike were very different from anyone else's. They always had strong feelings for each other though they never were really sure if it was love or hate, then as Spike got nicer and Buffy got darker, they grew to love one another. I think it was a true, friendly and passionate love and I think they understood and appreciated each other but I don't think it was like Angel or Riley. Nobody will be the pure, romantic love she had for Angel. I think Spike is really realistic though. It's more complicated and therefore more like our real relationships.

[buffyfan21]

I think at first it was definitely a matter of convenience, Buffy needed someone and Spike was there. In the beginning, I think she was just using him, but eventually it turned into something more, more than I think even Buffy herself expected. She may not have wanted to care for Spike, but I think she did just the same. Though, it's not hard to see that she had trouble admitting this to herself, and most especially to her friends. Now as far as whether she loved Spike the way she loved Angel? I would argue no, because I don't think Buffy will ever love anyone the way she loves Angel. That being said, there can be no denying that Buffy certainly had feelings for Spike, and came to care for him very deeply.

[Rebecca]

Dec 1, 2009 14:30:47 GMT -5 buffyfan21 said:

I think at first it was definitely a matter of convenience, Buffy needed someone and Spike was there. In the beginning, I think she was just using him, but eventually it turned into something more, more than I think even Buffy herself expected. She may not have wanted to care for Spike, but I think she did just the same. Though, it's not hard to see that she had trouble admitting this to herself, and most especially to her friends. Now as far as whether she loved Spike the way she loved Angel? I would argue no, because I don't think Buffy will ever love anyone the way she loves Angel. That being said, there can be no denying that Buffy certainly had feelings for Spike, and came to care for him very deeply.

I agree 100%

Their relationship in Season 7 was the counter to their relationship of convenience in Season 6.

Souled vs. Souless.
Casual sex!Attempted rape vs. "Please just hold me" cuddling.

While I think Buffy really did loathe Spike for being there for her in her sexual strife, causing her to feel guilty three times over, she grew to respect and care for Souled Spike, something no one in the scoobie gang really understood. This, I believe, speaks to Platonic love between the two of them, which can be used to illustrate the difference between Buffy and Spike vs. Buffy and Angel's relationships.

[Randi Giles]

Dec 1, 2009 20:42:44 GMT -5 said:

But early in season 7, Buffy says; "Why does people think I'm still in love with Spike?"


That line bugs me, I'm with Sky I think the writer at the time made a mistake. It is said too clear cut and out in the open and no-one, especially Willow who was last to know that Buffy and Spike were originally sleeping together doesn't even batter an eyelid of reaction.

I'm unsure if she loved him or not. Spike seemed uncertain of it right to the end. So I'm given a non answer on this one.

He was convenient at first I'll admit, but I think eventually she did mean when she said she loved him. Now I have to say that scene with Willow still bothers me to this day just because like you said. She just said and Willow just had no reaction. So I wonder if the writers messed up or not. I wished there was commentary on this episode. I also have to say sometimes I wonder when Buffy told Spike she loved him was it like being in love with him. Or does she love him like she loves Xander. This is why I am dying for a Spuffy reunion already. Though I like to believe that she was in love with him.