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Post by wenxina on Jul 2, 2010 16:12:25 GMT -5
It was a joke that Joss made in passing, but since of late, a lot of his "jokes" have had some element of truth in them, some people are speculating that there will indeed by two issues of sex with Spike. Who knows... the perves may be right. I'll take my Spangel to go, please. Spanley could be even better... that will absolutely piss Buffy off, in context of her dream in "Always Darkest".
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Post by drywallman on Jul 2, 2010 16:50:30 GMT -5
It was a joke that Joss made in passing, but since of late, a lot of his "jokes" have had some element of truth in them, some people are speculating that there will indeed by two issues of sex with Spike. Who knows... the perves may be right. I'll take my Spangel to go, please. Spanley could be even better... that will absolutely piss Buffy off, in context of her dream in "Always Darkest". There no time for anything like that. I'd be willing to bet that at least the next 4 issues will take place in the span of a day at most. And given that they are fighting not only for their lives but to stop the imminent end of the wold there really is no time for anyone to go off and have sex. We know the last issue will be more of an epilogue but I'm betting everything will be so messed up that sex will be the farthest thing from peoples minds. Also I'd lose even more respect for Buffy if she slept with someone else. She has just recently confessed to having feelings for Xander and yet she goes off and screws Angel, which already makes her look bad.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 2, 2010 17:26:53 GMT -5
She confessed her feelings for Xander, but those feelings have been squashed by Xander. Basically telling her that the ship had sailed, and she missed it. Also, he kinda called her out on being selfish, and also insinuated that it was perhaps partially due to sibling rivalry.
But heck, Buffy is a grown-ass woman. She gets to sleep with whomever she chooses. Why should her having sex with Angel make her look bad? Especially with the whole universe pushing for coitus. I don't ship, so who she has sex with is largely inconsequential to me. I will however stand for the right of an adult woman to choose to express her sexuality how she pleases.
That said, no, I don't seriously think there's more time for sexcapades. But then again, imminent doom has always made the Scoobies randy.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Jul 2, 2010 18:18:38 GMT -5
Touched, anyone?
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Post by drywallman on Jul 2, 2010 18:23:36 GMT -5
She confessed her feelings for Xander, but those feelings have been squashed by Xander. Basically telling her that the ship had sailed, and she missed it. Also, he kinda called her out on being selfish, and also insinuated that it was perhaps partially due to sibling rivalry. But heck, Buffy is a grown-ass woman. She gets to sleep with whomever she chooses. Why should her having sex with Angel make her look bad? Especially with the whole universe pushing for coitus. I don't ship, so who she has sex with is largely inconsequential to me. I will however stand for the right of an adult woman to choose to express her sexuality how she pleases. I never said Buffy betrayed Xander, but I do think she betrayed her feelings for him. And I'm sorry but they didn't spend a large part of season 8 setting up Buffy's feelings just for them to be fake. And feelings don't go away right away just because they aren't returned. If they did then Spuffy never would have happened and Xander would have stopped pining for Buffy after PG. Edit: Touched was a case of the world being in danger of ending as opposed to the current situation which is the world literally in the process of ending.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 2, 2010 21:03:17 GMT -5
Unless those feelings, as Xander said, weren't real. Some people saw signs of Bander-ness happening right from the first arc. Me, I personally didn't see it that way. I did see some overt signs in "Retreat", which were then settled in "Turbulence". I personally think it's up for debate if Buffy really wanted Xander, or just saw him as a no-brainer (he's a good friend, a good man, and she does love him dearly).
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Post by drywallman on Jul 2, 2010 22:06:45 GMT -5
Unless those feelings, as Xander said, weren't real. Some people saw signs of Bander-ness happening right from the first arc. Me, I personally didn't see it that way. I did see some overt signs in "Retreat", which were then settled in "Turbulence". I personally think it's up for debate if Buffy really wanted Xander, or just saw him as a no-brainer (he's a good friend, a good man, and she does love him dearly). I don't see Buffy in such negative terms, but to each his/her own. Just because Xander, or anyone for that matter, says something does not make it true. I think he's dead wrong on this one. And I suspect we'll be shown that soon enough.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 2, 2010 22:39:01 GMT -5
Scott Allie has made a few comments (including in the comic's letter column) strongly suggesting that a Bander relationship isn't in the cards, at least this season. Although it's his personally favored 'ship, IIRC.
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Post by drywallman on Jul 2, 2010 23:37:35 GMT -5
Scott Allie has made a few comments (including in the comic's letter column) strongly suggesting that a Bander relationship isn't in the cards, at least this season. Although it's his personally favored 'ship, IIRC. I don't expect it to happen this season, but neither do I expect it to be completely dropped and not even mentioned again this season.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 3, 2010 12:37:03 GMT -5
Unless those feelings, as Xander said, weren't real. Some people saw signs of Bander-ness happening right from the first arc. Me, I personally didn't see it that way. I did see some overt signs in "Retreat", which were then settled in "Turbulence". I personally think it's up for debate if Buffy really wanted Xander, or just saw him as a no-brainer (he's a good friend, a good man, and she does love him dearly). I don't see Buffy in such negative terms, but to each his/her own. What negative term? How is it negative to say that Buffy might have been wrong about her feelings?
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Post by drywallman on Jul 3, 2010 14:28:53 GMT -5
What evidence is there that she was wrong? Xander's the only one saying that and Buffy never says he's right.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 3, 2010 16:57:54 GMT -5
There is no evidence that she's wrong, neither is there evidence that she's right. She realizes that it's a moot point, and her and Xander reach an understanding of sorts. The sexual tension is put out there in the open, addressed, and they move on.
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Post by Emmie on Jul 4, 2010 0:25:34 GMT -5
I'll take my Spangel to go, please. Spanley could be even better... that will absolutely piss Buffy off, in context of her dream in "Always Darkest". I think Angel + Sex = bad. Unless it's the kind of sex where he's punished for being a bad, naughty lying wannabe supervillain... What's Spanley? Is that Spangel + Wesley? So you're advocating ghost!sex? As for Buffy's feelings for Xander, I'm on the fence. I think it's premature to say she doesn't have real feelings for him, just as it's premature to say she absolutely is full-out in love with him. There's something there and it's definitely more than sibling rivalry, so I can say that Xander's offbase. Actually, Xander's way offbase in saying she went through gay before considering him--she'd been considering him in her dreams before Satsu was even on her radar. In fact, one could say she went to Satsu because Satsu could handle a relationship with a Slayer. Buffy didn't pursue her feelings with Xander because she was afraid he'd end up dead or she'd lose him like all her other lovers (as she confesses her issues in A Beautiful Sunset). It's only when she feels normal and just human in Retreat that she starts to see Xander as a real possiblity--she's no longer the Slayer, so they can be together. Only she's too late. If anything, Xander completely doesn't understand why Buffy went through her "gay phase" and has relationships with vampires. She's afraid of hurting those she loves and Xander's the last person she wants to hurt or lose--she loves him too much, plus she's terrified of intimacy and opening up. So yeah, Xander's diagnosis? Pretty much BS. It'd be like saying Buffy and Spike were never going to get together even though they had so much interesting chemistry for a few years and then Something Blue happened. Storylines like this don't just get put aside.
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Post by drywallman on Jul 4, 2010 1:42:10 GMT -5
I'll take my Spangel to go, please. Spanley could be even better... that will absolutely piss Buffy off, in context of her dream in "Always Darkest". I think Angel + Sex = bad. Unless it's the kind of sex where he's punished for being a bad, naughty lying wannabe supervillain... What's Spanley? Is that Spangel + Wesley? So you're advocating ghost!sex? As for Buffy's feelings for Xander, I'm on the fence. I think it's premature to say she doesn't have real feelings for him, just as it's premature to say she absolutely is full-out in love with him. There's something there and it's definitely more than sibling rivalry, so I can say that Xander's offbase. Actually, Xander's way offbase in saying she went through gay before considering him--she'd been considering him in her dreams before Satsu was even on her radar. In fact, one could say she went to Satsu because Satsu could handle a relationship with a Slayer. Buffy didn't pursue her feelings with Xander because she was afraid he'd end up dead or she'd lose him like all her other lovers (as she confesses her issues in A Beautiful Sunset). It's only when she feels normal and just human in Retreat that she starts to see Xander as a real possiblity--she's no longer the Slayer, so they can be together. Only she's too late. If anything, Xander completely doesn't understand why Buffy went through her "gay phase" and has relationships with vampires. She's afraid of hurting those she loves and Xander's the last person she wants to hurt or lose--she loves him too much, plus she's terrified of intimacy and opening up. So yeah, Xander's diagnosis? Pretty much BS. It'd be like saying Buffy and Spike were never going to get together even though they had so much interesting chemistry for a few years and then Something Blue happened. Storylines like this don't just get put aside. Thats all I'm sayin! Well actually I said alot more then that but not nearly as sensibly as you did. Nice post! For what its worth, though I'm not thrilled that Spike is showing up, given the last few seasons of the show, I am finding myself at a place where I can be happy for Spike fans and even Spuffy fans that they are finally going to get the answers to at least some of the questions they have been asking.
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Post by wenxina on Jul 4, 2010 12:01:17 GMT -5
I think Angel + Sex = bad. Unless it's the kind of sex where he's punished for being a bad, naughty lying wannabe supervillain... What's Spanley? Is that Spangel + Wesley? So you're advocating ghost!sex? I think taken in the context of the Spanley statement, we can safely assume that I meant Spike/Angel/Riley. Since all 3 were previously involved with Buffy, and seeing all 3 of them together sans her would be taking her dream in "Always Darkest" to the next level. As for Buffy's feelings for Xander, I'm on the fence. I think it's premature to say she doesn't have real feelings for him, just as it's premature to say she absolutely is full-out in love with him. There's something there and it's definitely more than sibling rivalry, so I can say that Xander's offbase. Actually, Xander's way offbase in saying she went through gay before considering him--she'd been considering him in her dreams before Satsu was even on her radar. In fact, one could say she went to Satsu because Satsu could handle a relationship with a Slayer. Buffy didn't pursue her feelings with Xander because she was afraid he'd end up dead or she'd lose him like all her other lovers (as she confesses her issues in A Beautiful Sunset). It's only when she feels normal and just human in Retreat that she starts to see Xander as a real possiblity--she's no longer the Slayer, so they can be together. Only she's too late. If anything, Xander completely doesn't understand why Buffy went through her "gay phase" and has relationships with vampires. She's afraid of hurting those she loves and Xander's the last person she wants to hurt or lose--she loves him too much, plus she's terrified of intimacy and opening up. So yeah, Xander's diagnosis? Pretty much BS. It'd be like saying Buffy and Spike were never going to get together even though they had so much interesting chemistry for a few years and then Something Blue happened. Storylines like this don't just get put aside. Fantasies aren't always subliminal desires. They really aren't. She was lonely and horny. Xander popped into a fantasy or two. Doesn't mean that she wanted him then. Or at least seriously contemplated it. And as far as Xander knew, she went to gay before she got to him. So it's not BS. It's a shrewd observation from his POV. And what does it matter what his opinion is? The point I made is that it was moot. Xander had moved on. Technically, he moved on a long time ago. Remember that confession he made to Anya in "Into the Woods"? The part where he's absolutely, scarily in love with her because of all that she is. The part where he tells her that she's the first person he's felt that way about. How she makes him feel like a man. At that point, to me, Xander was officially over Buffy as a romantic interest. And sibling rivalry was not the only reason Xander gave. His more shrewd point, and it's a fair one, is that he thinks he's in love with Dawn. And Dawn's loved him her entire life (which, creepily enough, is kinda true, since she pretty much arrived all fourteen and hormonally-driven). And that they're happy. And that regardless of whether or not Buffy felt it before he and Dawn hooked up, she should have stayed quiet about it. As for Satsu being able to handle a relationship with a Slayer... sure. But I think the subtle distinction to be made is whether or not Satsu could handle being in a relationship with Buffy. Buffy, is damaged goods. She has issues and more baggage than Kimora Lee has Louis Vuitton suitcases. Of the two, Satsu and Xander, that is, I think Xander was better equipped to handle a relationship with Buffy. But, in respect to the reoccurring theme of being "too late", Buffy misses that boat with Xander, just as she missed it with Riley (funny how they're both human, and military affiliated). She was prepared to let herself be open in "Into the Woods", but he was airborne by the time she got there.
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Post by Emmie on Jul 5, 2010 2:42:04 GMT -5
See, you say it's subliminal. But it's so nuanced and complex it's unclear what's real and what's not real. We haven't seen enough to dismiss her feelings for Xander. It's only just begun. That's why I say it's premature.
And hey, I don't want it to be true, I'm a diehard Spuffy fan, but I can see it's in the cards and hasn't fully gone away. To say it's gone for good and both parties have moved on feels premature to me. What's more, it's putting down a potential storyline full of angst in the future. There's more drama left to be had.
Prepared? Not exactly. Willing to try? Yes. But wanting to be open is very different from being prepared to be open. Her desperation at being alone pushed her into following him. Being prepared to be open is another matter. Does she even know how?
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Post by wenxina on Jul 5, 2010 7:55:13 GMT -5
See, you say it's subliminal. But it's so nuanced and complex it's unclear what's real and what's not real. We haven't seen enough to dismiss her feelings for Xander. It's only just begun. That's why I say it's premature. Not denying the possibility. I think I argued along the same lines when I said that we don't have evidence showing definitely either way. And hey, I don't want it to be true, I'm a diehard Spuffy fan, but I can see it's in the cards and hasn't fully gone away. To say it's gone for good and both parties have moved on feels premature to me. What's more, it's putting down a potential storyline full of angst in the future. There's more drama left to be had. I think it was implicit in my post that what I'm saying is that it's gone for now. Probably for good. Dunno. But it's a storyline that's kinda gone on for a while now, and I know a few Banders who've caught their breath at every single tease of a possibility. At the moment, I liked how their roles were reversed from what they were earlier on. Prepared? Not exactly. Willing to try? Yes. But wanting to be open is very different from being prepared to be open. Her desperation at being alone pushed her into following him. Being prepared to be open is another matter. Does she even know how? Ship much? Perhaps it wasn't desperation so much as she did love him? She said she did. She told him that much. And she was wistful about the missed opportunity in "As You Were". But back to the topic at hand. She was open before. That's not the issue. The issue is after the Angel drama, she closed herself. So she knows how to be open. So, IMO, when she decided to run for Riley, she was prepared to reopen her heart to him. I'm not a fan of the ultimatum he gave her, her response to it was pretty fair. BUT... I'm in the camp where that relationship failed because of things they both said/did and didn't say/do. Her willingness to be open was possibly the only good outcome of that ultimatum. Which probably made it that more painful to watch him leave her life that way. PS: I was teasing, btw, about the "ship much?"
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 5, 2010 8:18:49 GMT -5
Eh, Xander and Dawn can have each other. I'm going back to shipping Buffy and Satsu. (Although I'm not sure Satsu is.)
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The Girl In Question
Ensouled Vampire
Lumpy Space Princess
"It eats you starting with your bottom."[Mo0:33]
Posts: 1,674
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Post by The Girl In Question on Jul 7, 2010 1:43:14 GMT -5
^^Ew! Bite your tongue! I don't want Buffy to end up with Xander but ANYTHING is better than Dander! Lol.
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Post by sosa lola on Jul 8, 2010 8:40:47 GMT -5
I think Buffy had feelings for Xander since the beginning of the season. She had a dream about wanting to have sex with him, but obviously she's too scared to hurt him so she doesn't make a move. Instead, she asks him to date Renee so he'd be off-limits. She only gets the courage to tell him about her feelings when she lost her Slayer powers, she's normal again and won't hurt him, sadly she's too late. Her jealousy is so obvious and suggests that she does have feelings for him, not to mention, that during the battle the first one Buffy thinks about is Xander. Not Dawn, her sister. But Xander. "Where is Xander?" And that hug, very passionate.
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