Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Sept 13, 2010 7:04:49 GMT -5
I don’t know what “ad libitum” means. I was saying not that Buffy was getting the powers from Slayers being killed, but that she had to suffer a ton of horror and grief to get her powers while Angel was simply given them. Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. What I meant was that once it started they both seemed to get whichever power they wanted when they wanted it. And we're yet to see what Angel went through to get to the Lost/Superman scene. He could have suffered as much as Buffy... Anyways wasn't it already confirmed that its Angel's Shanshu? I believe something to that effect was said. If you're referring to After the Fall #12, I just took the whole thing as Wesley's interpretation/perception - it's possible that not all of it was true. And if W&H is returned to the state they were in pre-AtF (I haven't been following the series since issue #30), they could file away Angel's renouncement. They seem interested in using the prophecy to manipulate Angel more than anything else and I'm always skeptical of in-verse information when it comes from someone who has a way of benefitting if it's not true. Plus, it's more interesting if it's all up in the air, no? Brian Lynch said something like "Angel's gonna get the Shanshu." but I don't know whether or not Joss has confirmed this. ETA: From his fifth Q&A:
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Sept 14, 2010 2:01:44 GMT -5
Finally got the issue today. Yay! Read it a couple time to let it sink it. Favourite part was where Spike comes bursting out of the portal in a thrill and crashes into the Big Ben (heh, I probably would have done the exact same thing). Willow turning Angel into a frog, then saying she 'missed' was pretty cool of her. A lot of Bangelness in this (gag) and a somewhat disappointing reunion for Spike and Buffy. But, I'm looking forward to the next issue to see how the Master is alive and when everyone arrives in Sunnydale. Question: was the reason Angel and Buffy given superpowers so that they could have space-sex and create a new universe? I mean, really? Oh and Seed of Wonder? of a name
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Sept 14, 2010 2:23:33 GMT -5
Finally got the issue today. Yay! Read it a couple time to let it sink it. Favourite part was where Spike comes bursting out of the portal in a thrill and crashes into the Big Ben (heh, I probably would have done the exact same thing). Willow turning Angel into a frog, then saying she 'missed' was pretty cool of her. A lot of Bangelness in this (gag) and a somewhat disappointing reunion for Spike and Buffy. But, I'm looking forward to the next issue to see how the Master is alive and when everyone arrives in Sunnydale. Question: was the reason Angel and Buffy given superpowers so that they could have space-sex and create a new universe? I mean, really? Oh and Seed of Wonder? of a name Pretty much echoe'd my thoughts. My initial thought after my first read was "omg this sucks" but after 2 weeks-time to let it sink in, I'm pretty fond of it.
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 14, 2010 7:55:18 GMT -5
Finally got the issue today. Yay! Read it a couple time to let it sink it. Favourite part was where Spike comes bursting out of the portal in a thrill and crashes into the Big Ben (heh, I probably would have done the exact same thing). If you noticed, there are some cars driving by that tower right when he crashes into it. It is an early evening and the street life is quite active. Later on the people are pointing at the burning building. Meaning there might have been human casualties. Would you have done the same, really?
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Hellbound Hyperion
Bad Ass Wicca
$20 per soul, no refunds[/B]
Dude, you just rescued a puppy![Mo0:18]
Posts: 2,268
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Post by Hellbound Hyperion on Sept 14, 2010 8:27:26 GMT -5
That seems to have been the main reason for the superpowers and the "glow", yes.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 14, 2010 8:32:29 GMT -5
If you noticed, there are some cars driving by that tower right when he crashes into it. It is an early evening and the street life is quite active. Later on the people are pointing at the burning building. Meaning there might have been human casualties. Would you have done the same, really? Could be a hint that this Spike is unsouled and uncaring. Or, it could just be a joke with the real-life consequences hand-waved away in comic book fashion. Which would certainly not be a new thing for season 8.
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 14, 2010 8:41:03 GMT -5
Could be a hint that this Spike is unsouled and uncaring. Or, it could just be a joke with the real-life consequences hand-waved away in comic book fashion. Which would certainly not be a new thing for season 8. I would have most certainly taken it for a joke if not for three reasons: Bug Numero Duo says something like "we have lost much more than that' ( wonkers ), lol Spike's entrance resembles his first entrance of Sunny Dale too much - with BigB playing the role of the sign The first thing Angel does is prissily props up the letter O - even though he was not in the driving seat when he crashed into it The first thing Spike does is ignores the people behind the window pointing at the burning tower while reading his newspaper. But of course, it all still can be a joke.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 14, 2010 9:11:43 GMT -5
Bug Numero Duo says something like "we have lost much more than that' ( wonkers ), lol I hope we get some explanation of that remark. Not sure how the bug would know if Spike lost his soul, but neither of them seem very concerned or surprised. The first thing Angel does is prissily props up the letter O - even though he was not in the driving seat when he crashed into it The first thing Spike does is ignores the people behind the window pointing at the burning tower while reading his newspaper. Could just be illustrating that Angel is Mr. Responsible (maybe Mr. Too Responsible) while Spike is a bad boy who breaks the rules and doesn't care. Angel respects venerable landmarks, while Spike would just as soon smash them. That reflects their respective attitudes towards prophecy and fate and destiny, as well. Angel gingerly props it up even when breaking it wasn't his fault... Spike knocks it down and moves on. Right now, I'm with Spike.
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210
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Post by zamolxis on Sept 14, 2010 9:38:35 GMT -5
Could just be illustrating that Angel is Mr. Responsible (maybe Mr. Too Responsible) while Spike is a bad boy who breaks the rules and doesn't care. Angel respects venerable landmarks, while Spike would just as soon smash them. That reflects their respective attitudes towards prophecy and fate and destiny, as well. Angel gingerly props it up even when breaking it wasn't his fault... Spike knocks it down and moves on. Right now, I'm with Spike. Mr. A.C. take a look at this, I think you'll enjoy it atpo-onm.livejournal.com/181166.html#cutid1
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 14, 2010 9:53:59 GMT -5
So is Twilight really Joss's commentary on Randian Objectivism and Libertarianism? That it can be boiled down to "Hooray for me and mine, everybody else can go to Hell?" I'll buy that... as long as it gets Buffy back with Satsu... ;D
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Sept 15, 2010 2:02:10 GMT -5
Here's a thought. What if the Seed of Wonder is the thing that's responsible for bringing the Master back. And being as old as he is, maybe he knows of this 'prophecy' and what's going on Finally got the issue today. Yay! Read it a couple time to let it sink it. Favourite part was where Spike comes bursting out of the portal in a thrill and crashes into the Big Ben (heh, I probably would have done the exact same thing). If you noticed, there are some cars driving by that tower right when he crashes into it. It is an early evening and the street life is quite active. Later on the people are pointing at the burning building. Meaning there might have been human casualties. Would you have done the same, really? Well, when you put it that way...... Yes. Partially being the chaotic and destruction person that I am (like Spike), I probably would have crashed it for fun, shrugged and move on. Note, I said partially, so it's not like I'm actually going to do it
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Sept 16, 2010 5:19:31 GMT -5
Just thinking... Buffy says it was their bonking that released the demons. Is that what really happened or is it just what they and we are meant to think for now? Did the demons break into their dimension as a result of Buffy bonking the bad guy or as a result of the Slayer spell? 'Cause the portal looks very similar to what Angel and Spike came through. And they definitely didn't enter the portal because of any kind of bonking. Right? Or am I just reading it all wrong?
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 16, 2010 11:03:46 GMT -5
Here's a thought. What if the Seed of Wonder is the thing that's responsible for bringing the Master back. And being as old as he is, maybe he knows of this 'prophecy' and what's going on Yes. Partially being the chaotic and destruction person that I am (like Spike), I probably would have crashed it for fun, shrugged and move on. Note, I said partially, so it's not like I'm actually going to do it Shrug. Now all this discussion put me in the mood of thinking about 9/11. Dangerous path, so I shall stop. But. Chaotic destruction only works in theory, IMHO. Until you face to the consequences and discover you have a soul. Speaking about the Seed of Wonder. It is interesting that Master does not want to touch it. Also, it looks the heck like an Easter Egg. Elements of 'Surprise' anybody? Ai. I might be jumping at metaphors - but they jump straight back at me.
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D'Hoffryn
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 127
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Post by D'Hoffryn on Sept 16, 2010 16:10:55 GMT -5
Finally we are back on track! After reading this issue it has relighted my interests in the comics. I can't wait to see motion comic 10 'anywhere but here' to see if they have added in any little extras to give us more clues and i really hope this is the master and not the first. I'm hopeing amy will finally get to shine and think willow is going to go missing or be forced to leave (sucked away with the magic in a portal) and keneddy will become a core member and fill in the blanks in S9. My mouth is watering for part 2, great stuff.
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veiriti
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 170
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Post by veiriti on Sept 17, 2010 6:01:10 GMT -5
Dorotea, I don’t want to argue with you and with people like you, but your malicious attempt to denigrate Spike and his heroic appearance in Buffy season 8 really pissed me off… Yeah, Spike is a hero! Spike HAS a soul and it’s not a curse like Angel’s soul – he earned it!!! Spike willingly earned his soul to be a better man, because he WANTED it, while Angel was CURSED to being a good man, he’d never wanted it! What about the crimes that Angel as Twilight had done? What about the kidnapping and torturing Willow by his orders? What about the chasing Buffy and her friends? What about the hurting Satsu and Buffy into the cemetery? What about the blowing Buffy’s castle in Scotland? What about the Vampy-cats? What about the killing of 206 innocent Slayers? What about killing of his own people – the soldiers and the scientist? Don’t you think Angel is overacting in his “Torture the former cheerleader” mission? And why Angel showed no remorse for the all havoc and distraction which happened by his fault? He even didn’t apologize to Faith for punching her. Don’t you think that the crushing of the Big Ben was a little punkish nuisance (Spike’s a fan of Sex Pistols after all) in the picture of the crimes that Twangel did - I mean all that killings, havoc, destruction, war and apocalypse? Yeah, maybe someone has lost his soul, but his name is not Spike… And why Angel is following that Nameless power so blindly. How we can be sure that the voices who are talking in Angel’s head are good? Maybe he’s is delusional about it?! I don’t believe that Power-Who-Has-No-Name is good, how anyone could be good if its/her/his plans of saving the world including the killing of the innocents. And Twangel has killed these people, he’s responsible for their death. And it doesn’t matter who pushed him to do that in why name's he did that – the murder is a murder! One or my friends in BuffyTube comics discussion said: Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a God-Twilight. Sorry, but I don’t buy that story - the villain Twilight is taking his mask off and that immediately turns him into the hero Angel and the protector of the Slayers, the same girls who he was chasing and killing before… you have to be too naive to believe in that. I think The Master is not the Big Bad in that story. What if those Nameless powers are the real Big Bad and Angel willingly or not is still their pawn? As Twilight Angel was given a mission to “Torture the former cheerleader, save the world” and to help Buffy to reach the next plane, together create a new world, only for two of them, with eternal happiness, without wars and bla, bla, bla… We’ve seen what’s happened in fact – the creating of that new world put the Earth under distraction and apocalypse. In fact that new Twilight-baby universe is dangerous even for its creators… What if that mission was given to Angel to kidnap Buffy in that new perfect world of her teenage illusion, to distract her, to take her away of the battle and the demons and that Power-Who-Has-No-Name to destroy and conquer our world easier? Angel obliviously failed in this mission… What would be the next move of his Masters-Who-Have-No-Name? What if the next order of that vague Power would be “Kill Buffy to save the world”? What Angel will do then? What he will choose? Will Angel betray and kill Buffy in the name of the “greater good” as he did with Droygin before? Looking at “Riley One shot” Twangel has chosen the World, instead Buffy. Riley was the one who has chosen Buffy. But I don’t want to make more speculations, I’d like to wait and to see the whole story first. In the end we’ll see who is a hero and who’s not, and who has soul and who hasn't…
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Post by wenxina on Sept 17, 2010 7:37:38 GMT -5
More pot calling the kettle black, and there'll be wrath enough for the offenders.
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 17, 2010 8:36:21 GMT -5
"They are rebels and they will never be any good."
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Post by wenxina on Sept 17, 2010 8:38:04 GMT -5
I meant that as an all-around warning, not just at one person. There has been a certain amount of disruptive shipping around here, and it's not conducive to anything.
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veiriti
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 170
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Post by veiriti on Sept 17, 2010 9:06:38 GMT -5
More pot calling the kettle black, and there'll be wrath enough for the offenders. I’m so sorry, if I’ve offended someone with my words, I’ve tried to stay silent, but she continues to murmur against Spike – Spike crashed Big Ben, Spike has lost his soul, Spike is the traitor, etc, … Sorry, but that’s offending for me! I’m seeing she hates Spike, but like it or not she has to accept the fact that Spike is the hero who saved the day in this issue! Yeah, I don’t like Bangel and I totally dislike the fact that Buffy is so cold with Spike who saved her and her friends again and again, but is making moony eyes and stupid smiles to the man who almost destroyed the world… but as you see I’m trying to accept her strange behavior without to comment it here… So, let’s see the whole story first, and then we’re free to make conclusions! Anyway, I'm apologizing again...
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Dorotea
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 17, 2010 9:15:09 GMT -5
Folks, discussing the elements of the plot of the book is not aimed at anybody in person. I honestly cannot see how me pointing out something that is actually in the comic itself can be offensive to anybody. It is a discussion of the plot and the dialog, not flaming. I apologize just in case, but I cannot honestly see my posts as pure shipping.
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