veiriti
Potential Slayer
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Posts: 170
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Post by veiriti on Sept 17, 2010 9:53:27 GMT -5
Dorotea, as you’re seeing I’m also pointing out something that is actually in the comic – I mean the Twilight’s crimes against the world and the humanity, but I don’t repeat it again and again in my every post! And honesty I wouldn’t show my opinion about Twilight-Angel, neither about Buffy/Angel relationship here, because I know a lot of good people who love Angel as a character and it would be offending for them. But you provoked me to do that! Here are a lot of people who love Spike as a character and pointing out at one and the same thing again and again in the attempt to denigrate his heroic appearance is a bit annoying for us… It’s nothing to do with the ships! Anyway – As I said, I’d like to stop with that. – I’ve said that I wanted to say. It’s over for now! I’d like to see the whole arc, before to discuss who’s hero, who’s not…
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Dorotea
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 17, 2010 9:57:23 GMT -5
Just a fine point here - this thread is for discussing issue 36. Which is exactly what I was doing. Without calling anybody any names or implying that such and such hates character X. Or that I personally hate character Y. Which, for the record, I don't.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Sept 17, 2010 13:28:46 GMT -5
Disclaimer: Any form of shipping or persecution and persecution complexes is unintentional. Like, totally. I only ship Princess Peach and Bowser. (Because no matter what you do, she always finds her way back to him --> True love. ) What about the crimes that Angel as Twilight had done? What about the kidnapping and torturing Willow by his orders? What about the chasing Buffy and her friends? What about the hurting Satsu and Buffy into the cemetery? What about the blowing Buffy’s castle in Scotland? What about the Vampy-cats? What about the killing of 206 innocent Slayers? What about killing of his own people – the soldiers and the scientist? Don’t you think Angel is overacting in his “Torture the former cheerleader” mission? And why Angel showed no remorse for the all havoc and distraction which happened by his fault? He even didn’t apologize to Faith for punching her. Don’t you think that the crushing of the Big Ben was a little punkish nuisance (Spike’s a fan of Sex Pistols after all) in the picture of the crimes that Twangel did - I mean all that killings, havoc, destruction, war and apocalypse? Textually, there hasn't been confirmation that he approved *all* those missions. Unless there was an implied objective to harm Buffy's organisation by any means possible (which, most likely, there was). Killing the scientist never made sense to me, though. The only point in it would be to show his troops that he was committed to the cause and we didn't actually see him get killed. So who knows what happened there? Angel may have already let him slip out just like he may have sabotaged the missile attack on Buffy's base. Right now, I'm open to all possibilities. Regarding the "Torture the former cheerleader", I think that would've continued until he found out Buffy had gained her superpowers. Which is exactly when he revealed himself to her. But Angel's lack of remorse is quite worrying. I can't think of a reason for it. (Does "glow" count? Universe made him do it? Idiot Jed?) Crushing the Big Ben was absolutely_most_definitely_without_a_doubt punkish. And awesome! And now that Angel is out of the picture (?) I want to see him put some sense into Buffy. And also Willow and Giles. Contrary to the text, I think he has the simplest "agenda" of them all. Not to mention, a more authentic theory. But, man, where's that cigarette? It's supposed to be an extension of his arm! I hate you, Jeanty! (I love you, Jeanty! ) I would LOVE for that to be the case. With Buffy and Angel's contrastive moral theories, I'd like to if she's still willing to judge Angel on his intentions rather than his actions. Judging from Angel's unwillingness to let Buffy leave the Twilight plane, I think he chose "Buffy" while Riley chose "what Buffy would want". Dorotea: Your Karma Points. I've never seen anything like it. *karmas*
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Dorotea
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Posts: 145
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Post by Dorotea on Sept 17, 2010 14:21:08 GMT -5
@ Shane, I won like 800 point in the contest ( I selected Angel is Twilight for all 3 guesses), just never insisted on moderators giving me any. Shrug. I guess I am not after karma points first and foremost.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 17, 2010 14:27:46 GMT -5
I really, really dislike the system of anonymous karma. I hope the new board will change it to add some accountability.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Sept 17, 2010 14:59:27 GMT -5
@ Shane, I won like 800 point in the contest ( I selected Angel is Twilight for all 3 guesses), just never insisted on moderators giving me any. Shrug. I guess I am not after karma points first and foremost. LOL, you're so mean! I hate you. I don't care much about it now but if I had 800 900 then I'd have something to lose... But we're moving to vBulletin 4 so that'll solve a lot of things. PHP/C > * Edit: Forgot to carry the one.
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Post by Inappropriate Starches on Sept 18, 2010 11:29:47 GMT -5
I will say my initial response to this installment was that Joss said he was going to treat the Buffy/Spike relationship with the same respect that he has treated the Buffy/Angel relationship....not so far. However I put trust in him, and it ain't over yet.
Also why could Spike tell it was Angel right away where as Buffy had no idea and she got right up close and personal with him? This was probably all mentioned but it just bugs me.
I am curious to see where this is all going, so I shall continue to put my faith in Joss that I won't be disappointed.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Sept 19, 2010 1:23:56 GMT -5
I will say my initial response to this installment was that Joss said he was going to treat the Buffy/Spike relationship with the same respect that he has treated the Buffy/Angel relationship....not so far. However I put trust in him, and it ain't over yet. Also why could Spike tell it was Angel right away where as Buffy had no idea and she got right up close and personal with him? This was probably all mentioned but it just bugs me. I am curious to see where this is all going, so I shall continue to put my faith in Joss that I won't be disappointed. Nice catch! I would've thought Buffy would've been able to "sense" him. Maybe Spike has Buffy's Angel-sense now...
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Post by wenxina on Sept 19, 2010 7:35:49 GMT -5
Or, Buffy never expected Twilight to be Angel, because hey, Twilight=villain. Whereas Spike has never really seen Angel as anything more than a pompous twat. Also, it kinda goes along with Spike being the "fool" character, the character who sees/speaks the truth when everyone else doesn't.
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Shane
Potential Slayer
I saw a baby today.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 135
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Post by Shane on Sept 19, 2010 14:34:58 GMT -5
One or the other, LOL.
I hope you're right. Move away from the sibling rivalry. But Spike would need something more than his distrust to think Angel would do that to *Buffy*. Hope that's part of the new info we're getting in the upcoming issues or Lynch's books...
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will86
Innocent Bystander
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Post by will86 on Sept 20, 2010 3:25:07 GMT -5
Okay. I rarely post anything. But I still think there's something that hasn't been discused as much as the moral and love situations going on in the lastest issues. Scott has mentioned that the role of the scythe in the upcoming issues is yet to be discovered. And we have Giles speaking about "a totem to kill a god" with the pointy item in the back. And also, in Chosen, it has been said that it is supoussed to kill "the last pure demon that walked upon the earth" and since the First was "crushed" but not "killed" I think this references are gonna be revisited soon. And maybe it'll make the buffy killing FDW issue also clearer. Just a thought. And I really hope that Willow doesn't kill buffy with it. :S
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Post by angeliclestat on Sept 20, 2010 6:49:14 GMT -5
Whereas Spike has never really seen Angel as anything more than a pompous twat. I've never seen that. Maybe that is your own view;) By the end of Season 5 of 'Angel', and all during 'After the fal'l Spike had developed a respect for Angel, as Angel had for Spike. Would Spike have followed Angel to the battle in the alley if he thought he was a 'pompous twat'? But it seems whatever happens in 'Angel' (in terms of character development) does not cross over to Buffy. Maybe Whedon needs to rewatch 'Angel' to remember what other writers did?Or indeed rewatch Buffy...
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Post by wenxina on Sept 20, 2010 7:33:16 GMT -5
Spike and Angel may have come to some understanding by the end of S5, but that didn't really change the way that Spike saw Angel. Still some of that "Angel is a twat" thing going on in "AtF" and beyond, it seems. I make the distinction between respecting someone and liking someone. I think that Spike respects Angel (and vice versa) but Spike doesn't like Angel (and vice versa). Following Angel into battle at the end of S5 was a respect thing. And also because Spike felt that it was right. And Spike... always kinda itching for a good tussle. And, if he could sock it back to the people who orchestrated the whole "capture your soul within an amulet and return you incorporeal to the man you wanna punch" game, why not? But you're right. It's just the way I see it. will86: There's a little bit of information about the role the Scythe will play in the upcoming issues HERE.
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veiriti
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Post by veiriti on Sept 20, 2010 9:07:06 GMT -5
I agree with Angeliclestat! Wenxina, have you read Angel “Boys and their toys”? Spike considers Angel like a big brother there. And he called Angel ponce, peaches, old pants, captain Forehead, but never twat. Despite of all that rivalry and jealousy between I think Spike has some kind of respect to his grandsire… But I have a bad feeling that season 8 will spoil anything good between them. I loved Spike and Angel more in IDW than in Buffy S 8… Sorry but the current Buffy's comics made me to dislike the Angel's character - I don't like him around Buffy!
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Post by timeturningbabe on Sept 25, 2010 7:38:03 GMT -5
I agree with Angeliclestat! Wenxina, have you read Angel “Boys and their toys”? Spike considers Angel like a big brother there. And he called Angel ponce, peaches, old pants, captain Forehead, but never twat. Despite of all that rivalry and jealousy between I think Spike has some kind of respect to his grandsire… But I have a bad feeling that season 8 will spoil anything good between them. I loved Spike and Angel more in IDW than in Buffy S 8… Sorry but the current Buffy's comics made me to dislike the Angel's character - I don't like him around Buffy! Sooooooooooooooo true! And Buffy with Angel that goes 'oh you can burn the world but I will love you! And he has a ship! ' I was like... huh? Who gave her a lobotomy?
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Post by wenxina on Sept 25, 2010 18:29:59 GMT -5
I agree with Angeliclestat! Wenxina, have you read Angel “Boys and their toys”? Spike considers Angel like a big brother there. And he called Angel ponce, peaches, old pants, captain Forehead, but never twat. Despite of all that rivalry and jealousy between I think Spike has some kind of respect to his grandsire… But I have a bad feeling that season 8 will spoil anything good between them. I loved Spike and Angel more in IDW than in Buffy S 8… Sorry but the current Buffy's comics made me to dislike the Angel's character - I don't like him around Buffy! I'm not saying that Spike ever called Angel "twat". I'm saying that if I were to summarize their relationship, it would be that Spike really doesn't like Angel all that much. I never said that Spike disrespected Angel... in fact, I said that he did. I merely said that he didn't like Angel. Hence all the nicknames he gives Angel. To answer your first question: no, I haven't read "Boys and Their Toys"... mostly because I'm staying away from the IDW books. Too many titles, canon being too shifty, etc. Currently undecided about when I should hop back on the train, since I currently feel that I should read Lynch's SPIKE series, and the last arc of ANGEL, to see how it all segues into S8.
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Post by Mr. Savath Bunny on Sept 26, 2010 12:58:58 GMT -5
The best thing IDW did was the Boys and their Toys when Spike and Angel go to Comic Con and the Buffy "Halloween" spell happens again, just the idea of it happening in a con made me laugh.
A majority of the IDW stuff I still buy but don't race to read, or read at all. I collect all the issues but I too feel like Angel and Spike aren't really themselves at IDW. The jokes aren't the same and I feel like the overabundance of new characters is a little much. I could see introducing new people but take time to develop back stories, or possible purpose to them being around? I dunno, I just keep looking forward to a good story arc at IDW but I feel like they didn't sink their teeth far enough into the Angel bandwagon.
I just really enjoyed the small scale stories back when Dark Horse had Angel still, the idea that the soul Angel was re-insouled with possibly wasn't "his" soul was SO interesting and I really wish IDW would have looked into that or other interesting ideas instead of creating a whole new Angel team right after ATF
The best storyline I feel has been the Twilight / Last Gleaming stories because I do feel Joss has done justice with Spuffy interaction and Brad was funny and finally took the story to new heights, so in the next few months I'm uber eager to see where this all goes!
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Post by wenxina on Oct 12, 2010 23:18:31 GMT -5
My extremely late review of this issue can be found HERE.
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Darth Rosie
Ensouled Vampire
I do doodle
Keeper of Didacity [? Astray][Mo0:12]
Posts: 1,392
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Post by Darth Rosie on Oct 12, 2010 23:44:38 GMT -5
great review, wenxina. loving it, as always!
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Post by wenxina on Oct 12, 2010 23:57:55 GMT -5
Thanks... I got caught up in real-life stuff (PhD candidacy exams, working, going on a research cruise, etc), so this was a long time in the works. Finally decided that enough was enough, and it had to be published tonight. Now for #37, and perhaps, if I can find the time, the Riley one-shot.
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