iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by iloveromy on Apr 8, 2008 11:32:56 GMT -5
Do you guys agree? Disagree? Discuss...
In the world of computer gaming, nothing screams “quality” like a licensed tie-in. Unfortunately, it’s also prone to scream the word “bad” immediately beforehand. This is an accepted truth in the world of computer games – you don’t buy a licensed title expecting anything more than a cheap, rushed, shallow cash-in. It makes sense – with licensors hovering over the creative process, and usually a time limit in the form of, say, a cinematic release date to synchronise with, there’s no room for error, and that means no room for invention.
Licensed comics are rarely any different. Where movies tend to have licensed computer games, there’s a decades-old trend of TV shows having a licensed comic. Even so, after over 30 years of trying, they’re still almost universally crap. With the time and storytelling restrictions vastly different to game tie-ins, what is it that makes licensed comics the utter quality black hole that they so frequently are ? I’ve been considering it and I think I’ve identified the three mistakes that licensed comics make. A few case studies, and I hope to illustrate exactly why only the most dedicated fan should go within 10 feet of a licensed comic.
1. “No budget” syndrome – One of the first things you can be guaranteed to read when someone brings an existing property to comics is a statement along the lines of “Well, of course, since we have no budget restrictions, we can do anything we want, as long as it can be drawn !” A fair enough statement, yes, but on closer inspection, what does it really mean ?
In the case of IDW’s comic-based “Season Six” of Angel, it means taking Los Angeles to hell and having Angel fight a ludicrous number of massively-proportioned demons every issue – something that makes the series almost impossible to take seriously. After all, the Angel show we remember featured a small number of demons, almost always human-like in appearance. It was absolutely a budget restriction, but one that kept the show grounded in believability, as much as a show about a vampire detective could be.
With this new freedom to depict demons of all shapes and sized, the reality constructed over five years of the TV show has been utterly discarded in favour of bigger, better things… that don’t remotely match what the viewers of Angel remember. The solution to this one is simple – let the TV show that you’re adapting inform the look of the comic, and stick religiously to that. Any time you’re thinking “wow, we could never have done this on TV !” that’s a sign that you shouldn’t be doing it.
2. No Actors – A hard one to get around. The appeal of any TV show is basically down to two things. The acting and writing. A comic has plenty of writing going into it – comic and TV scripts are fairly similar, after all – but the acting, well, that’s another matter. IDW are currently publishing a continuation of Star Trek : TOS, but really, what’s the point of Kirk without Shatner ? (JJ Abrams, I’m looking at you !)
Even Dark Horse’s fantastic Buffy : Season 8 comic struggles with this one. The artist on that series, Georges Jeanty, does brilliant work, recalling the look of the actors while still drawing the characters, rather than the people who played them, and the dialogue in Buffy was always so well-defined that you can almost hear the characters speaking their lines, even on the page.
Almost, anyway. Even in what is arguably the industry’s best ever licensed comic, there’s something missing. A voice here, a facial expression there – no matter how good it looks, part of the essence of the characters is always going to be locked into the actor, somewhere. You can no more draw the “real” Buffy than you can replace Sarah Michelle Gellar with another actress. The two are inseparable, and that’s one element a comic can never compete with.
3. No Canonicity – This one is what really does it for me. The problem lies in the fact that the comics, no matter how good the stories in them are, simply don’t count. It seems a bizarre claim to make, but let’s face it – we’re all geeks here, and we all understand the difference between a story that “did” happen – i.e. anything in a Star Wars film – and stories that only happened until a film says they didn’t – i.e. anything in a Star Wars comic, novel, computer game or god forbid, CCG.
As a result, you’re left wondering whether there’s any point to what you just read. The characters can’t change and the plots can’t really be advanced. Is the story itself enough ? Often, the answer is “no”. Again, there have been stabs at addressing this. The creator of cult-hit Disney cartoon Gargoyles is telling new, in-canon stories set after the end of the cartoon. Buffy : Season 8 is written by Joss Whedon - it doesn’t get any more official than that – and yet, Whedon recently admitted if he had the chance to make a new TV show, all bets were off and contradicting the events of the comic wouldn’t keep him up at night.
One wonders just how important even an in-canon comic can really be – after all, they’re a small industry – on TV Buffy was measuring its viewers in millions per episode, but the comic series is doing well to be selling over 100,000 copies per issue. Even with the best intentions, comics are way, way down the ladder of importance. Why worry about upsetting 100,000 fans if another 4.9 million are happy ? Kevin Smith proved as much when he cannibalised massive sections of his own "in-continuity" Jay and Bob comic into the movie, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. The comics, no matter how official they might be, no matter how much good faith they’re written in, only happened until something more important says they didn’t.
Ultimately, there’s very little that can be done to make a licensed comic stand up to reasonable quality. While Buffy : Season 8 is fantastic, it’s a small ray of light in a field plagued with half-arsed cash-ins. Only the most obsessed fans should bother with anything else – that’s the way it’s always been, and unfortunately, despite genuine attempts to legitimise tie-ins - that’s pretty much the way it’s going to stay.
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Post by wenxina on Apr 8, 2008 12:17:35 GMT -5
On the no budget syndrome: I disagree with the statement's usage of Angel. True, Angel has always had a sense of groundedness, but seriously, we're talking about a show about a vampire with a soul (in Buffy canon, an anomaly), his snarky cheerleader assistant turned seer on a kiss turned vessel of evil and then mom of said evil (wow, Cordy did evolve... probably even on a genetic level), a green lounge singer/club owner in banana yellow suits from a different dimension, a nerdy academic rescued from said dimension who blossoms into an adept fighter/researcher/overall sweet girl next door capable of bouts of great fury, a street warrior turned right hand muscle... etc etc etc... and this writer tries to ground Angel on the claim of humanoid demons? If nothing else, Angel (the show and persona) were grounded by the highly human situations that it dealt with, even with a cast of "carnival freaks". LA gone to hell (or Hell-A as I've read recently, kinda catchy) would have been impossible to capture on TV, true. The closest I've seen to this was when Dawn's blood opened the dimensional floodgates to multiple hell dimensions at the end of Season 5 of Buffy, and that was not so good visually. But at the core of the story... it's still a human story. So budget constraints of not, the ground's familiar... Angel is not what I remembered it to be, but what I'm glad it had the opportunity to grow into. Will respond to the other sections in a bit... I'm off to class.
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 8, 2008 12:56:19 GMT -5
I agree with that article pretty much. I don't think season 8 is fantastic, and After the Fall's jarring location change is easier to accept when you look again at the very different monsters glimpsed in "Not Fade Away".
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El Diablo Robotico
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 8, 2008 13:21:07 GMT -5
The complaint about the demons in A:AtF is ridiculous. There have been more than a few demons, on both shows, that didn't look anything like a man in a rubber suit. On "Buffy", the Mayor-snake, the three-headed Gohra demon, and the heart-ripping-out spider-demon from "Selfless". On "Angel", the Jasmine-worshipping bug creatures, the scaredy-demon that rises up and bites Gio's head off in "That Old Gang of Mine", and the bug creatures from "Fredless". Other than the T-Rex and the dragon, the only 'demons' I think fall into the obviously-not-a-guy-in-a-rubber-suit category in AtF are Burge and his son. So that criticism is worthless. For the rest of it, if the point is that the comics aren't as good as the shows: well, DUH! Thanks, Captain Obvious. But they're a whole hell of a lot better than nothing at all, for those of us who want the story to continue. I think I'm actually at the point where I now prefer the comics to the idea of a feature film. We got "Serenity" to follow up "Firefly", and it was awesome, but then 2 hours later, that was it. I like having a new installment of the story coming out every month. The problem with the internet is that reviews like this are displayed on my monitor. If it'd been a hard-copy on a piece of paper, I could've put it in the bathroom and used it to wipe with...
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by iloveromy on Apr 8, 2008 13:22:48 GMT -5
The canon issue isn't correct. It is canon, it's not some Star Wars comic (unless George Lucas made them, I have no idea). Yeah i don't understand what the writer meant by that. Does that mean that even if they are considered Canon they can't be because of the medium? Anybody who does even a little bit or research would understand that Season 8 is canon. That's why it's called season 8...
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
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"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 8, 2008 13:31:39 GMT -5
In the case of "Star Wars", there's a series of many, many, many novels, set before, between, and after the films, that are considered 'canon', yet which Lucas has had virtually nothing to do with. Which is probably a good thing, because, not surprisingly, a lot of them are miles better than Lucas's three prequels...
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Post by Jinxieman on Apr 8, 2008 13:46:13 GMT -5
I really think if Joss was faced with the possibility of a Movie he would tie it into the comics the best he could making it either before the events of season 8 or taking his idea for season 9 and making it a movie to come out right after the comics come to a conclusion. If you think about time frame of writing the movie, finding a filming time that works for all the principals, filming the movie, and editing it together it would stand to reason that the movie wouldn't be complete until about that time anyway....then he could come up with a new idea for the next series of comics to take place after the movie! :-D
And I have to add that I agree with Mikey; what makes something cannon is that the creator says that it is so. Whether he/she writes it themselves or they have someone else write it...or I think even in hindsight they decide that something written should be cannon they could say so.
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by iloveromy on Apr 8, 2008 13:49:15 GMT -5
Canon for me is a story that has been deemed an official continuation of a story from the original medium. That blessing usually comes from the creator. Sometimes it has to be a general consensus of fans.
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Post by capricek on Apr 8, 2008 14:17:08 GMT -5
Another point though is the Star Wars books, comics and games are canonical in the Star Wars universe. Whoever wrote that should research before writing such an uninformed comment.
The saddest thing though is millions of fans who don't read comics are missing out on continuity, so if Joss ever had the chance to make a new TV series, only us who read the comics would get the full story. (though fat chance that'll ever happen, considering the crap Fox has put him through).
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commandercool
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Post by commandercool on Apr 8, 2008 14:19:03 GMT -5
Wow. I actaully agreed with pretty much all of that. In theory, I mean. I actually enjoy the crazy-ass art in Angel.
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 8, 2008 14:37:09 GMT -5
I think the cannon issue picked on in this article is a great one. Many people don't treat the comic as cannon, and never will. It doesn't matter that it has a Joss stamp of officiallity as it is still a comic and therefore a second class medium (sorry guys). The weakness of this comic's position resonates from Joss's own words, and his absolute willingness to disgard it for greater things. For the rest of it, if the point is that the comics aren't as good as the shows: well, DUH! Thanks, Captain Obvious. But they're a whole hell of a lot better than nothing at all. I think I hear this kind of logic all too much. It being better than nothing isn't much of a compliment. Better than nothing isn't enough for some people; and you agree with what the article guy said so what's the use of making something out of it? hehe
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by iloveromy on Apr 8, 2008 14:56:47 GMT -5
Well it depends, did you watch Buffy for the writing or the acting. If it was more for the writing, then Season 8 is obviously going to be more official for you. Since this is Joss and his team writing it. It's Buffy scripts with comic book pictures. I had a professor who was absolutely in love with Buffy. A couple years ago when I found out that Buffy was continuing in comic format she expressed her displeasure with reading comics and decided that the show ended with the finale. I don't think canon should be dealt with a singular medium. Final Fantasy VII, a video game, spawned a canon sequel by adapting to a length film. Willow, the 80s sci fi movie spawned an official canon trilogy of books in the mid 90s. For me it's all about the writing and the story. Yeah, for me one is more ideal than the other. In a perfect world I would LOOOOOOOVE to see Buffy on the big or small screen again but the idea of that doesn't make the comics any less official and true of a story.
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Apr 8, 2008 15:19:28 GMT -5
I love Buffy season 8 and Angel After The Fall BUT my only two problems are that: 1) Joss has said a few times that if Buffy season 8 and Angel: After The Fall had been on tv or a movie they would have been completley different. No castle, no giant Dawn, no battle armor. For After The Fall it has been stated that is is not EXACTLY season 6 which is why t's not called season 6, so that would mean, no betta george or no good dragon. I read in the Angel magazine a while back that if the show was not canceled then Los Angeles would have been set in a post apocolyptic world, demons let loose all over the place and the plot would be Angel trying to win back the city and then taking down vamp Gunn for the finale. It would have been excellant. 2) The comics must'nt menat THAT MUCH if Joss would be willing to throw them all away if he gest the chance to make a movie. Not that I really care because I would prefer a movie, though I did really like No Future For You. This is all just another reason point to make that they MIGHT not actually be an official part if the show. Now to stop myself getting moaned at everyone I'd just like to say I love Buffy season 8 and Angel After The Fall, the cover are great and I really can't with for the next issue. Same goes for the new Serenity comic.
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Post by dgryphon on Apr 8, 2008 15:28:22 GMT -5
Wow. Even though of course he irritated me with his opinions against BtVS and Angel, that man is completely ignorant of Star Wars. I love Buffy more, but only barely. EVERYTHING (disclaimer below) in Star Wars is considered canon- it's not released if Lucas says it isn't. Novels, comics, miniseries (plural?), etc.
There are a few exceptions, but they're understandable; two children's series written in the 90s aren't considered canon, but that's a bit irrelevant. There might be something else, but I don't think so.
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El Diablo Robotico
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Apr 8, 2008 15:38:40 GMT -5
There are a few exceptions, but they're understandable; two children's series written in the 90s aren't considered canon, but that's a bit irrelevant. No, I believe those two series are canon, too. Certainly all the new characters introduced in them--Tenel Ka, Zekk, Lowbacca, Tahiri--have become part of accepted canon, in the "New Jedi Order" and "Legacy of the Force" series that are set after them. The "Young Jedi Knights" series (the one about Jacen and Jaina), tho written for kids, are actually some of my favorite "Star Wars" books...
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Post by Wyndam on Apr 8, 2008 16:09:35 GMT -5
There are a few exceptions, but they're understandable; two children's series written in the 90s aren't considered canon, but that's a bit irrelevant. No, I believe those two series are canon, too. Certainly all the new characters introduced in them--Tenel Ka, Zekk, Lowbacca, Tahiri--have become part of accepted canon, in the "New Jedi Order" and "Legacy of the Force" series that are set after them. The "Young Jedi Knights" series (the one about Jacen and Jaina), tho written for kids, are actually some of my favorite "Star Wars" books... Yeah they are considered canon, for the reasons you stated. I actually love that series as well, I read them all the time when I was younger. I think the only thing Lucas doesn't approve of now, from the YJK series was a Wookie being a Jedi (which is why Lowbacca is the only one in existence, and why his role has never been very large since the New Jedi Order). But yeah, EVERYTHING that is released with the Star Wars label has to be approved by Lucas first, which then makes them canon and apart of the Star Wars universe.
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Post by Emmie on Apr 8, 2008 16:51:37 GMT -5
The canon issue doesn't really bother me...its canon, oh wait its not canon...the whole point is whether I can believe it happened. Whether the comics get a official stamp doesn't really help me with immersion into the story - the quality of writing and characterization matter more.
The other two points are what I struggle with in enjoying the medium compared to the show. I'm a huge reader and have a very active imagination, so its not hard for me to recreate the story from the comics and hear the characters' voices. But I still miss the actors for their facial expressions, their voices, their interpretation of the scene.
The 'no budget syndrome' is also a change from the old formula that initially sounded cool, but I feel its flashiness distracts at times. It was like the 'limited budget' on the show meant that the writers and the characters had to conquer these demons of production with MacGyver-like brilliance and ingenuity. Constraints challenged creativity, making them adopt a subversive appeal. Now solutions seem to come too easily now - Buffy needs money so she robs a bank; why didn't she do this in Season 6 instead of working at the DP?
I've mentioned this before that I miss the juxtapositon between mundane reality and fantasy found in the tv show. The comics have changed it from the slayer living in the world to everybody living in the slayer world. The balance is off - there's too many fantastic, superpowerful characters to contrast with well only Xander. Everyone is so freaking fantastic that by comparison no one is fantastic. There's no outside world with normal humans to contrast with the superbeings (except the army as an opponent, really hitting home the idea that slayers are fighting humanity now). Why isn't a normal human good enough to help in the fight anymore?
But this is just a critique of the drawbacks of the comic medium compared to the tv show. Am I settling for the comics? No. If I was settling, I wouldn't be more excited about buying the latest issue the day of its release than watching 99% of the crap on tv today. Do I think the show was better than the comics? Yes. But I'm grateful that the story lives on. The show is over in that form and now we have a different medium for the action to take place.
What's hard is letting go of the show enough to enjoy the comics without the obligatory comparisons. I'm working on it, though. "Not very good" my ass!
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 8, 2008 17:02:20 GMT -5
Constraints challenged creativity, making them adopt a subversive appeal. Now solutions seem to come too easily now - Buffy needs money so she robs a bank; why didn't she do this in Season 6 instead of working at the DP? That particular example has more to do with a shift of the character's morals than budget restraints. Budget didn't affect Buffy's decision not to rob banks, as we saw (at least) 2 scenes of bank robbery in season 6, perpetraited by the nerds. Buffy simply wouldn't have robbed banks back before she was a slayer general or what-have-you.
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Post by Emmie on Apr 8, 2008 17:15:52 GMT -5
True I've been thinking about that after posting. Perhaps a better example would be the commando gear and all the spiffy new weapons they sometimes use now. I prefer the fights where Buffy's ingenuity and use of her environment counted more than what awesome ray gun she had.
As far as the money issue goes, I've always wondered what happend to the Council's old accounts. They had a lot of money and influence, so what happened to the dough? The First got to it somehow?
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Post by wenxina on Apr 8, 2008 17:37:13 GMT -5
Even Dark Horse’s fantastic Buffy : Season 8 comic struggles with this one. The artist on that series, Georges Jeanty, does brilliant work, recalling the look of the actors while still drawing the characters, rather than the people who played them, and the dialogue in Buffy was always so well-defined that you can almost hear the characters speaking their lines, even on the page. Almost, anyway. Even in what is arguably the industry’s best ever licensed comic, there’s something missing. A voice here, a facial expression there – no matter how good it looks, part of the essence of the characters is always going to be locked into the actor, somewhere. You can no more draw the “real” Buffy than you can replace Sarah Michelle Gellar with another actress. The two are inseparable, and that’s one element a comic can never compete with. I personally find the second part to be ridiculously narrow-minded in approach and almost insulting. In fact, it pretty much flies in the face of what he/she just said in the paragraph before. Is it so hard to recall a facial expression? We're all capable of making them, and recognizing them shouldn't be so hard. What, are people that lazy now that you can only be a passive participant in your own entertainment? From what I've seen so far, it seems to be quite the opposite, with some fans deeming their opinions worthy of changing canon. I agree that Georges has done some fantastic work on the characters. Likenesses are usually spot on enough that you know who they are (with the exception of his #16 variant), but without the slavish detail that somehow kills the dynamicism of comics. I love the slightly cartoony style he uses, but it is his ability to capture moments of nuance that make me want to worship the ground he walks on. Two best Jeanty moments IMO: 1. The two almost identical panels of Gigi right after she lands on her own axe. The subtlety is amazing there... it's all in the details. 2. In #13, Willow's expression when Buffy gives Satsu an order and tells her off for questioning it. Some may have found the Willow transition from #12 to #13 a little jarring, but the art helps convey the bits of information that you don't hear. It's just as good as having an actress give you the reaction. Personally, I appreciate the lack of the actor behind the character. I think that the cast has done an amazing job laying down years of well-honed characterization so that even in their absence, the character lives on as naturally as they do when I rewatch my DVDs. To say that it's not the same without them is stating the obvious, but I don't need SMG, AH, NB, or anyone else to make the characters any more real to me. I'm not settling. Settling would be accepting a story that could not be developed quite as well on TV because of budget and practical constraints. This way, I can even include my own soundtrack to the damn experience if I want to.
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