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Post by Emmie on Jun 10, 2008 6:19:52 GMT -5
But like Scott said, he publishes most letters. I came upon this subject a little late. After seeing this thread, I made the "I Support Scott Allie" mini-banner, and read the rather disgusting thread in question. I have to say I'm a bit ashamed. I feel dirty. **welcomes colonic** I think its sad that a few very disrespectful people could cyber-spit on a veritable celebrity in this space. I thought we were of a higher caliber. I also think it's very sad that someone couldn't defend his reputation as a professional without snide comments and tautological rhetoric. It goes without saying that I am a bit more enlightened from this experience. The uppers have connections, and they see what we write here. So whether the VIP you want to bash is registered or not, remember that they may see your comments and be personally hurt by them, as a person, whether they respond or not, as Allie bravely did. Oh, and can I say how dare Sue? Attacking him on his personal character for defending his professionalism... it truly disgusts me. Well said, Touched. |
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Post by sosa lola on Jun 10, 2008 11:27:47 GMT -5
Sign me in.
Just read that 9-page thread. Spike is my second favorite character, I love his character to death, and if Scott likes Angel more than Spike, so what? It's his opinion. He doesn't affect the plot of S8, he's just the editor.
Just because Willow is Joss' favorite character and not Xander doesn't also make me hate Joss. It's his opinion.
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Melissa
Rogue Demon Hunter
I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 428
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Post by Melissa on Jun 10, 2008 11:42:54 GMT -5
I agree with everyone. That was a big mess of a thread.
I'm 110% behind Scott Allie! He helps bring me my Buffy every month!
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jun 10, 2008 14:17:54 GMT -5
I support Scott too!
After reading the thread, this made me laugh.
Because an rapist-killing vampire shouldn't be portrayed negatively. especially in comics!
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Post by sosa lola on Jun 10, 2008 14:21:49 GMT -5
I don't think we should call Spike a rapist and a killer after he got a soul, you know.  |
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Smashed
Junior Vampire Slayer
[Mo0:3]
Posts: 908
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Post by Smashed on Jun 10, 2008 14:48:22 GMT -5
Hmm. He did kill all of those people...with his soul.
: )
I don't care. I don't like Spike anyway. Just sayin'.
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Post by Rebecca on Jun 10, 2008 14:53:25 GMT -5
I don't think we should call Spike a rapist and a killer after he got a soul, you know. I think people are entitled to their opinions, and that that thread was closed for a reason. Let's just hold hands and sing kumbaya, and not dredge up that topic again. EDIT: Sorry, that sounds pretty high-handed. I just think that we shouldn't go there **hugs sosalola**  EDIT AGAIN: Is there anyway we could put measures up so that something like this doesn't happen again? Like put it into forum rules that we should respect our VIPs and treat them with dignity, so that when something like this goes down again, there is cause to boot them? |
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tln
Innocent Bystander
Posts: 2
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Post by tln on Jun 10, 2008 17:42:07 GMT -5
I support Scott, too. Come back to the forum. I think that it was completley wrong for Sue to say that fans and proffesionals can't get along. Brian Lynch does it, Georges Jeanty does it, Nathan Fillion does it even David Boreanaz does it. Don't let a few bad eggs (oh bad buffy season 2 joke sorry) ruin this for you or anyone else!! As a matter of fact, I think Brian Lynch has left Whedonesque for a similar reason. Successful coexistence depends on how touchy/sensitive the forum-in-question's members are, and/or how touchy/sensitive the VIP-in-question is, really. If only it were that simple. |
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Post by CowboyGuy on Jun 10, 2008 17:48:06 GMT -5
I don't think we should call Spike a rapist and a killer after he got a soul, you know. True sosa. Very true. Spike tried to rape her. William aka souled Spike is not a rapist. Just like how Angel is absolved of his deeds when soulless. |
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on Jun 11, 2008 1:52:18 GMT -5
Hey guys I don't post here much but I was directed to what happened in the other thread, which is pretty much infamous now in the online fandom.
So after being pretty angry about what went down there, along with the rest of you, thought it's best to activate my account and express my hope and desire to see Mr Allie change his mind and join us again on the forum.
I'm all for freedom of speech and honestly, can't stand seeing a group of fans who just kiss the ass of any writer, editor or creator that comes on a site. But what went down wasn't just freedom of speech, it was nasty and vindictive and horrible. He came on here to defend himself from rumours and even when he did a select few were persistent in thinking the worst about him. And it has cost this site a pretty valuable contact.
So I'm on the bandwagon to support him. Hope you come back Scott.
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vampmogs
Novice Witch
[Mo0:16]
Posts: 208
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Post by vampmogs on Jun 11, 2008 5:35:53 GMT -5
True sosa. Very true. Spike tried to rape her. William aka souled Spike is not a rapist. Just like how Angel is absolved of his deeds when soulless. This is very OT for the thread, but I just wanted to say I don't think it's as simple as having a soul absolving either Spike or Angel from their past deeds. It really hinges on the argument of the nature of the interaction between the demon and the soul - something that the Buffyverse has not clearly defined. If having a soul absolves Angel from his past deeds, why does he seek redemption? Yeah, see personally I would actually call Spike a "mass murderer and a rapist" because he is. It's only a problem when people state it as if that's all he is. Because now he has a soul he's also a good person. But he's still a mass murderer and a rapist, just like Angel tells Lindsey he happens to be the "greatest mass murderer" Lindsey's ever met, soul or no soul. Angel and Spike are still murderers they just don't do that anymore. I think it’s perfectly within someone’s rights though to call back on the AR scene in Seeing Red as Mr Allie did as a problem they had with a fictional couple. Wether or not said couple ended there is irrelevant, it’s still a part of that couple’s journey and if an individual can’t past that specific point of that journey, it’s entirely fair they don’t enjoy the ship. Just because it progressed after that specific plot development in no way absolves it from ever happening and if it’s a reason why someone doesn’t like the ship that’s perfectly fine. No one deserves shippers having a go at them about it because it’s not something those shippers care to acknowledge. |
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Jun 11, 2008 10:38:17 GMT -5
I don't understand the whole transformation of a vampire thing. I wish it would have been explored a little more. Does the soul go away? Is part of hidden deep down, trying to fight its way up?
Angelus - Totally evil. Not Angel at all. Was the blue creature we saw in Pylea the true form of Angelus or just a demon form of Angel?
Does the blue creature plus human create Angelus personality?
This has always confused me.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 11, 2008 11:38:52 GMT -5
The issue of the soul, and whether Angel and Angelus (and, by extension, Spike, also) are actually two different beings, or the same being with and without a conscience, has a lot of inconsistency in the way it's dealt with over the years. I tend to fall in the "they're two completely separate, individual beings" camp, but there's enough evidence to make good arguments for both ideas...  |
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Post by wenxina on Jun 11, 2008 12:16:45 GMT -5
Blue demon thing in Pylea = the pure demon in Angel, i.e. Angelus. The blue thing, hybridized with a human = the more humanoid Angel/Angelus... remember that vampires are filthy half-breeds. But the malevolence in Angelus that can be attributed to the demon is probably due to the blue demon. However, as the demon was more feral, and definitely hardly intelligent, I'd say that part of Angelus' personality is due to his human intelligence tempering the demon's abilities. Spike... he was always different from Angelus, even in no-soul form. He was able to love, to cherish, whereas Angelus wasn't. Spike loved Dru, and then Buffy (or it was some perverted form of love, it's up to you). Angel admitted that he never loved Darla... he told her this on an ep in Angel (can't remember which). Also, the Judge told Spike and Dru that they stank of humanity, whereas he was unable to burn Angel up, because he had no humanity at all. The soul doesn't equal good... people do horrible things on Buffy/Angel, and they still have their soul, even if it's been signed away to an evil law firm. However, I think it's been established that the soul leaves the body when the host is sired, hence the needing the re-ensoul Angelus, and not just bury the demon so that the soul can regain control. However, should both be present, then they can battle for dominance. Meaning, I always just took the difference between Angel and Spike to be a variance in how much humanity each character kept, after being turned. If you want to play Freudian genius, then you could factor in the whole parental issue as well; Angel hated his family (well, mostly his dad... he seemed to love his sister, and the mom's pretty non-existent) whereas Spike's mom was all he cared about since she doted on him and put up with his lousy poetry. He even turned her, then staked her... Oedipus complex much. |
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Post by Emmie on Jun 11, 2008 17:28:01 GMT -5
Guys, any chance we can move this, like take the posts out and start a new thread? This is an interesting debate, but very OT.
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Post by wenxina on Jun 11, 2008 22:19:14 GMT -5
It's like Kara's polymorphic thread. But back on topic... I still have lotsa Scott Allie love... okay... that sounded mildly homo, but you can't fight the LURVE.  |
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cheryl
Novice Witch
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 246
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Post by cheryl on Jun 11, 2008 22:36:54 GMT -5
I support Scott Allie. I hope he comes back soon.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Jun 12, 2008 1:32:19 GMT -5
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Post by Emmie on Jun 12, 2008 2:00:40 GMT -5
Lol Praise be, praise be! |
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skitty
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 9
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Post by skitty on Jun 12, 2008 12:34:29 GMT -5
Okay, so, this will be my first post on this lovely forum, and apparently it's going to be a doosey. Statement one: I support Scott as well. All friendly here. And it's good to see a few friendly faces amongst the posters from back in the buffyworld days.
I've just finished reading the...well I'll call it an "incident." It's moments like that which forced me out of the forum world all together almost a year ago. Fans at each others throats, and at the throats of the people who are helping keep our fandom alive...it makes a fangirl sad. Let me say something that may possibly offend every Spike and Angel fan that ever existed. I like them both! I think they were both equally good for Buffy in their own ways at different points in their lives. They were also both murders, with or without soul. And Spike really did try to rape Buffy. My goodness, the world didn't end. I think it's silly to tear each other apart because of all this.
What makes me cringe over this is that Scott would take the brunt of such fanaticism. In the past, Joss has taken it. I've read some shockingly negative things about him, particularly during season six, when Angel fans took the streets in anti-Spike riots (artful hyperbole) and again in season seven when Angel stormed in and made out with Spike's woman, only this time from the bleach blond crowd. And it's not limited to our fandom either. Have any of you guys ever poked your head in to see what the Harry Potter fans are talking about most days? If I read how awful JK Rowling is as a person because she didn't get Harry and Hermione together one more time, then I think I'm just going to have to swear off the internet forever. But that's not us! That's not all of us at any rate. At least it shouldn't be.
I guess what I'm trying to say is the thing that shocks me most about the "incident" is that it continued on for...what? Three...four pages after Scott's post? And very hostile at that. It gives us all a bad name when we have that kind of negativity and it makes me sad. I'm really kind of sorry Scott had to see that at all. It's not how I would like him to see us fans, anyone with me?
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