sarahi
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 101
|
Post by sarahi on Jan 13, 2009 20:44:58 GMT -5
Premium cable shows aside, I can't think of any TV show with gay men stories that wasn't a sitcom.
I've always wondered why Willow's tendencies were explored further and Xander's weren't. Xander had just as many homophobic situations as Willow did, if not more. Besides Larry, who was never shown in a relationship, the only other gay guy on BtVS is Andrew, but he's so far in the closet he might never come out.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jan 14, 2009 2:18:02 GMT -5
It is true that Spike/ Angelus was alluded to.
... though it was never explicit.
I also remember Joss saying that at the beginning of the series he wanted either Willow or Xander to be gay, and it ended up being Willow. If it had been Xander, as others have posted, we'd be asking why there weren't many lesbians in the buffyverse. Well, until Satsu :heartsatsu: I'm still holding out for Andrew and Anderson Cooper ;D
|
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Jan 14, 2009 3:13:17 GMT -5
I think the reason there are more lesbians than gay guys in Buffy is because it's a feminist show, and it allows them to explore female sexuality and how women relate to each other. I don't think it's any kind of prejudice towards male homosexuality, it's just that the series is naturally more estrogen-driven so lesbians are more likely to show up. To the guy who said "Lorne's not gay": well, that's hopeful at best. The point I was making was he is clearly encoded as gay. I.e. 'different' and charismatic Paul Lynd-ish young man with a passion for entertainment industry and musicals who leaves behind his prejudiced and backwards homeworld to go to LA where he'll feel accepted. Excellent point. Even if Lorne isn't actually gay, the writers have used his character to explore homosexual themes. I find that more interesting than having some fanservice gay ship like Ianto/Jack in Torchwood.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Jan 14, 2009 4:05:29 GMT -5
Looking at the cast of characters it's no surprise that it's lesbian heavy lol. Even before the literal army of female extras the cast was quite female dominated.
There's no room for more characters to be added really, but I'm all for a gay guy being added when it can work. My only problem is that the most logical way to do it is a boyfriend for Andrew, which could be really sweet but I still don't like the character lol. I'm kinda rooting for him to be revealed as an ass again.
I don't like the idea of Oz or Xander being outed as gay. Neither strike me as being gay in all honesty, I wouldn't buy it.
|
|
sarahi
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 101
|
Post by sarahi on Jan 14, 2009 13:49:47 GMT -5
Oz being gay would be just plain weird. There have been no prior indications of it that I can think of. It would be a pretty far stretch.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jan 14, 2009 13:55:40 GMT -5
Oz being gay would be just plain weird. There have been no prior indications of it that I can think of. It would be a pretty far stretch. No, it would just be "queer". Pardon the punnage... it was too easy to resist. On a more serious note, as the werewolf bit was never used as an allegory for homosexuality, methinks Oz won't suddenly come out gay. Unless the whole "beast within" deal gets dealt a whole new spin, alluding to homosexuality, which let me just say, will not go down pretty at all, given the support the queer community has given Joss.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 14, 2009 14:19:48 GMT -5
Oz being gay would be just plain weird. There have been no prior indications of it that I can think of. It would be a pretty far stretch. There's hasn't been any indication that he's not. Not once has he said "I only like girls" or anything like it. One would think that's something he would have shared with Willow, since they were so close, but that might as well have been a of screen moment.
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 14, 2009 16:22:58 GMT -5
Yes, Oz was with Willow-but look how she turned out-and many gay guys and lesbians are drawn together in real life. So IMO, Oz being gay would actually make sense. Plus, if you watch old episodes with the possibility in mind-it makes even more sense. In season two's "Phases" episode, the scene between Oz and Larry when Larry grills Oz about his relationship with Willow. And when Willow wanted to have sex with Oz but he didn't want to. I'm not saying that just b/c a guy doesn't want to have sex means he's gay, but sometimes it does. Then we had the whole deal with Veruca-who was female, but a werewolf. So going with the werewolf=inner sexuality theme- Veruca represented Oz's true nature. She tried to get him to let loose but he resisted. And lets not forget-Oz killed Veruca. If he does come back gay, I imagine him with a wild, fur wearing, sexy romanian guy with long hair. No Oz + Andrew. But, maybe Oz would inspire Andrew.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jan 14, 2009 17:21:09 GMT -5
I truly honestly don't see Oz as gay. At least with Willow we saw the possibility with Dopplegangland. With Oz, I saw no indication that he was. Even the whole wanting to wait for the right moment showed him to be romantic rather than not into Willow. She was trying too hard, he wanted it to come naturally.
The whole Veruca = Oz's true nature/sexuality... I get the nature thing, but I don't see how that shows him as possibly gay. If anything he cheated on Willow while in wolf form with Veruca, showing him as very straight, naturally.
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 14, 2009 18:23:48 GMT -5
Like I said, Veruca was female, but I think the fact that she was a werewolf was more important than her gender. The show was full of metaphors, & the wolf as repressed sexuality would be just one more. People said that there were no inclinations for Willow turning gay, but when you look back-there were. Same goes for Oz just as it does for buffy and her fling w/Satsu- the whole faith subtext. There might not be BLATANT clues, but in the overall sense of the character-it fits. I'm not saying I even want Oz to be gay, but if they do make him gay- I could see why.
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 14, 2009 18:39:44 GMT -5
The whole Veruca = Oz's true nature/sexuality... I get the nature thing, but I don't see how that shows him as possibly gay. If anything he cheated on Willow while in wolf form with Veruca, showing him as very straight, naturally. Not sure if you meant that gay's are more faithful, but...
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jan 14, 2009 18:46:28 GMT -5
The whole Veruca = Oz's true nature/sexuality... I get the nature thing, but I don't see how that shows him as possibly gay. If anything he cheated on Willow while in wolf form with Veruca, showing him as very straight, naturally. Not sure if you meant that gay's are more faithful, but... nope I meant that if he was gay and his true nature was homosexual, then he wouldn't have cheated on Willow on Veruca that night. rufio- I saw Willow's gay inclinations are more blatant that those you are referencing for Oz. She even said in Dopplegangland "I think I'm kinda gay". Oz never came close to that. Also, your point about wolfiness representing repressed sexuality... I don't really see that, at all. No offense, I just don't get that at all. Instead I saw it as sexuality in general, not repressed. Veruca embraced her wolf self, and was very sensual. Oz was all about controlling that part of his nature. Now perhaps that is your point about repressed sexuality, that Oz controlling his wolf side is a metaphor for repressing his homosexuality?
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 14, 2009 19:41:32 GMT -5
Yess-what's not to get?
And buffy never came close to a 'i think i'm kinda gay' moment, but like i said-in the overall sense of her character it fit. Being chosen as a slayer, having to hide her identity, 'coming out' to her mother, running away from home, the faith subtext...
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jan 14, 2009 19:52:46 GMT -5
I thought you said wolf-iness = repressed sexuality, when you actually meant just sexuality. The difference was opposite, lol Also, the whole Buffy being gay seems weird to me, still. Just because you're openminded (I think of myself that way) doesn't mean you are gay or bi-sexual (which I'm not). I just never got that from her before, and perhaps because I'm not gay means that I'll never get it? Though Willow and Tara made sense to me... I dunno. It still feels out of character, at least that's my perception.
|
|
sarahi
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 101
|
Post by sarahi on Jan 15, 2009 20:03:53 GMT -5
James Marsters asked Joss Whedon about the Buffy/Satsu thing once, and Joss said that Buffy was just experimenting, so I guess the official story is that Buffy isn't gay. It was my perception that slayers and vampires are both just highly sensual beings due to their demonic nature. Buffy repressed it before the big resurrection because she wanted to live closely with civilization and her family and friends, but Faith didn't have the same motivation. Spike and Angel apparently experimented and they didn't show any clear-cut signs of being gay.
The myth of the werewolf, from what I recall so don't quote me too closely, was meant to show how the inner craziness can come out when there's a full moon. Oz's inner self was shown as being animalistic, but gay might be reaching. A werewolf is a mythical dog, and I don't know of too many gay dogs. I also have to agree that if Oz were repressing homosexuality he wouldn't have been so attracted to Veruca. If anything, the wolf would be keeping Oz straight.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jan 16, 2009 10:45:34 GMT -5
I think what rufio was saying was that Oz repressing his wolf-nature was a metaphor for repressing homosexuality, at least that's what I got from it. I actually agree more with you sarahi, that wolf-nature is more of a metaphor for sexuality in general, not just homosexuality. I didn't get anything gay off Oz.
Actually the two biggest moments I can remember were Oz getting busy with Veruca in wolf form (pretty hetero) and Oz trying to kill Tara over intense jealousy (also pretty hetero given his territoriality of Willow).
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 16, 2009 11:40:57 GMT -5
omg. i wasn't saying that oz being a werewolf Definitely WAS 100% a metaphor for him being gay! I was just playing the devils advocate in regards to the POSSIBILITY of Oz being gay.
and i stand by my remarks- it IS a possibility.
|
|
|
Post by Rebecca on Jan 16, 2009 15:37:55 GMT -5
omg. i was just trying to explain your metaphor. that is all.
|
|
rufio
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 205
|
Post by rufio on Jan 16, 2009 17:23:19 GMT -5
omg omg omg ok. oz wasn't, isn't and never will be gay. not even a little bit.
|
|
BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
|
Post by BenTaylor3907 on Jan 16, 2009 21:02:47 GMT -5
omg omg omg ok. oz wasn't, isn't and never will be gay. not even a little bit. Save for fan fiction.
|
|