New wave of Superhero movies Sexist?

[Saturn 5]

Feb 16, 2009 0:41:17 GMT -5 deathisyourgift said:

Feb 8, 2009 6:33:38 GMT -5 Saturn 5 said:

Are superheroines inherently sexist? I mean look at the ridiculously voluptuous figures the artists give them and the outfits they have to wear? Although admittedly male superheroes all look like Chippendales too.
Also if you ever watch the old Lynda Carter Wonder Woman series she's always being tied up or brainwashed or knocked out. So same as it ever was

This is because these women were drawn by-predominantly-men. Also, because these men were drawing to-predominantly-male readers. From a psychological p.o.v., the only way for a male reader to accept a female having equivalent power to males, especially in such fantastic supply as super heroes, is for her to be visually pleasing, a.k.a. sexy. This is because of the fascination with the phallus, and who has control over it, etc etc, lots of psycho-bs. It is my opinion that these powerful women were drawn as naked as possible in order to give little comic fanboys something to wet-dream about. Sorry, but that's just what I think about it.

As for Lynda Carter always being tied up etc in Wonder Woman, this is a big pet peeve of mine. Male heroes are beaten with respect, female heroes are beaten and humiliated. There are so many allusions to sexual assault, stripping of respect, and misogynous attitudes in the defeat of so many female super heroes. You can see it in any panel of a female super hero's fighting/battle story: her physical angles/position are always drawn in an off-set, "come-hither", sexual way, even when she is fighting and/or laying on the ground beaten--which leads to another wholly upsetting topic of forced submission.

EXAMPLE: Remember Robin, Batman's faithful sidekick? Well, after the original Robin(Dick Grayson) left Batman and became Nightwing, his successors included Jason Todd(became a vigilante after a dimension slip), Tim Drake(died fighting Earth-2 Superboy), and Stephanie Brown, who was Tim Drake's girlfriend.
When Tim Drake died, his mortality was honored and respected, with images of his body left in shadow, and without definition. His death was also shown in a heroic light. When Stephanie Brown took over, she was eventually captured by Black Mask. He tortured her with a power drill(misogynous and brutally disturbing) and died shortly after. In the panel depicting this event, her body was always shown in angles that looked eerily similar to someone lying waiting in bed, again the "come-hither" stance. So even in death, we are told, by the way she is drawn, that this woman is not to be held in the same respect as her male counterparts, because she is sexy and must always been seen in that light.
There is further controversy over this female heroine's death, about how she is never mentioned again, and does not have a little shrine in the Bat Cave like Tim Drake does. This is part of an overwhelmingly disturbing use of female characters in comics as "plot-movers" for their male counterparts. In other words, the female character is used solely for the purpose of changing/initiating the plot of a male character, rather than for the purposes of her own plots. More on this can be found here: Wome In Refrigerators

This is a huge topic with lots of controversy, and I for one feel quite passionate about it, as a female comic enthusiast who would LOVE to see some female-driven comics that have meaning (by that I mean NOT BETTY AND VERONICA or those stupid Betty Page comics). I have even gone so far as to create my own comic about an aging female super hero, dealing with ageism, sexism, and the natural flow of life. I did this because, in my own experience, the comic world at large is missing some really strong, female-driven stories that are action packed, thoughtful, and well written.

:end-rant:

Thank goodness we have Buffy

-Jen

I honestly don't think it's as complex as all that. Male artists draw their ideal woman who is basically Pamela Anderson with MORE plastic surgery (ponder the concept!) because it appeals to them and to their largely teenage male readership. They then get a kick from seeing these strong, beautiful women dominated and humiliated. There are entire web-comics on the internet with illustrated stories of ridiculously voluptuous Superheroines being 'tamed and broken' by the male bad guys. I think one was call Americana Woman or something similar, a clear rip-off of WW
In fariness if you look at peoples second life avatars or whatever there seems to be no shortage of ordinary looking women who would like to look like Playmate of the Year or whatever (without all the eating nothing but salad and living at the gym and beauty parlour which I'm sure the Playmate of the Year endures for the sake of her looks). And there's an awful lot of very dark fanfic written by women, especially featuring Angelus and unsouled Spike

[darkdahlia]

while women love a little nasty role play, we also love seeing strong women who are not dominated by men in tights.

And I don't think the solution is to get more girls into comics. GIRLS LIKE COMICS, we just dont like seeing unrealistic women fighting crime in heels with almost no clothes on, their hair and make up never weathered.

It's almost like a man saying "um well you don't look like what we want you to look like. THIS is what you should look like". that's what male dominated comics say to little girls who read them...

[Saturn 5]

I can't really picture Angelus in tights. Oh wait, now I can and it's really disturbing ;D

To be fair most superheroes tend to look the full action figure too. Roger Moore talks about watching Christopher Reeve walk through the studio canteen in full Superman gear and all the women around him swooning in his wake

[henzINNIT]

Feb 17, 2009 11:52:31 GMT -5 Skytteflickan88 said:

Feb 17, 2009 11:44:56 GMT -5 henzINNIT said:

I think Blade Trinity is a good example of a film being so unsexist it's sexist. The added character Abigail Whistler looks ridiculous fighting vampires alongside Blade, sorry girls but it's true. It doesn't matter that she's buff as hell (which she is), it still looks stupid. I don't think she even takes a punch in the whole film, cause she's a tough woman!

Not sure of you meant it, but that sounded sexist. Like you could accept a strong male fighter but not a chick. But since you're a Buffy fan, I doubt that's what you meant.

Did you mean that they're trying too hard to be unsexist and creates a too strong female character or that she simply looks out of place?

No sexism here, like you guessed she is just out of place. Blade established vampires (as most things do) as super-humans and yet Biel's human character can handle several at a time. There's even a human male character along side her having a hard time brawling with them. It's like they're afraid to even show the chick take a punch. It just struck me watching it that it could have been handled better, to show her over-coming her physical weaknesses with skills or weapons rather than bullshitting.

[darkdahlia]

yeah id love to see jessica biel get punched in the face without mercy...

[Harmony]

boy superheroes are hunky and fun to watch

girlsuperheroes would be hot and fun to watch too

thats why i like the x-men movies
everyones so good looking

[jellymoff]

Feb 16, 2009 0:41:17 GMT -5 deathisyourgift said:

Feb 8, 2009 6:33:38 GMT -5 Saturn 5 said:

Are superheroines inherently sexist? I mean look at the ridiculously voluptuous figures the artists give them and the outfits they have to wear? Although admittedly male superheroes all look like Chippendales too.
Also if you ever watch the old Lynda Carter Wonder Woman series she's always being tied up or brainwashed or knocked out. So same as it ever was

This is because these women were drawn by-predominantly-men. Also, because these men were drawing to-predominantly-male readers. From a psychological p.o.v., the only way for a male reader to accept a female having equivalent power to males, especially in such fantastic supply as super heroes, is for her to be visually pleasing, a.k.a. sexy. This is because of the fascination with the phallus, and who has control over it, etc etc, lots of psycho-bs. It is my opinion that these powerful women were drawn as naked as possible in order to give little comic fanboys something to wet-dream about. Sorry, but that's just what I think about it.

As for Lynda Carter always being tied up etc in Wonder Woman, this is a big pet peeve of mine. Male heroes are beaten with respect, female heroes are beaten and humiliated. There are so many allusions to sexual assault, stripping of respect, and misogynous attitudes in the defeat of so many female super heroes. You can see it in any panel of a female super hero's fighting/battle story: her physical angles/position are always drawn in an off-set, "come-hither", sexual way, even when she is fighting and/or laying on the ground beaten--which leads to another wholly upsetting topic of forced submission.

EXAMPLE: Remember Robin, Batman's faithful sidekick? Well, after the original Robin(Dick Grayson) left Batman and became Nightwing, his successors included Jason Todd(became a vigilante after a dimension slip), Tim Drake(died fighting Earth-2 Superboy), and Stephanie Brown, who was Tim Drake's girlfriend.
When Tim Drake died, his mortality was honored and respected, with images of his body left in shadow, and without definition. His death was also shown in a heroic light. When Stephanie Brown took over, she was eventually captured by Black Mask. He tortured her with a power drill(misogynous and brutally disturbing) and died shortly after. In the panel depicting this event, her body was always shown in angles that looked eerily similar to someone lying waiting in bed, again the "come-hither" stance. So even in death, we are told, by the way she is drawn, that this woman is not to be held in the same respect as her male counterparts, because she is sexy and must always been seen in that light.
There is further controversy over this female heroine's death, about how she is never mentioned again, and does not have a little shrine in the Bat Cave like Tim Drake does. This is part of an overwhelmingly disturbing use of female characters in comics as "plot-movers" for their male counterparts. In other words, the female character is used solely for the purpose of changing/initiating the plot of a male character, rather than for the purposes of her own plots. More on this can be found here: Wome In Refrigerators

This is a huge topic with lots of controversy, and I for one feel quite passionate about it, as a female comic enthusiast who would LOVE to see some female-driven comics that have meaning (by that I mean NOT BETTY AND VERONICA or those stupid Betty Page comics). I have even gone so far as to create my own comic about an aging female super hero, dealing with ageism, sexism, and the natural flow of life. I did this because, in my own experience, the comic world at large is missing some really strong, female-driven stories that are action packed, thoughtful, and well written.

:end-rant:

Thank goodness we have Buffy

-Jen

Kind of off topic, but I thought Tim Drake was alive. He appears in Batman RIP...

[Saturn 5]

Feb 17, 2009 21:16:00 GMT -5 Harmony said:

boy superheroes are hunky and fun to watch

girlsuperheroes would be hot and fun to watch too

thats why i like the x-men movies
everyones so good looking

To paraphrase The Last Action Hero "No kid, this is Hollywood"

[dusk3333]

I wish I had been around when this discussion was really going on. I have done two summers of research on the female action hero in film and television. I would have loved to have been in on this discussion.

[drusillacakes]

Feb 17, 2009 15:36:52 GMT -5 darkdahlia said:

And I don't think the solution is to get more girls into comics. GIRLS LIKE COMICS, we just dont like seeing unrealistic women fighting crime in heels with almost no clothes on, their hair and make up never weathered.

This fighting crime in heels thing is my biggest gripe. It's just beyond unrealistic, and it's one thing to draw it but another to show it on film. I remember being really annoyed at Silk Spectre leaping and kicking in those high heels in The Watchmen, and also wondering if her costume rides up. I know it plays into this element of fantasy, but it's a predominantly male fantasy. I don't know about you other ladies, but I just wonder if her ankles are hurting or if she's suffering from a wedgie.

I mean, Faith & Buffy are hella sexy and they don't resort to gimmicks like running and kicking in heels. Sarah Connor would never dream of bringing down skynet in four-inch heels. It's just not practical.