Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Apr 7, 2008 9:16:16 GMT -5
In 'Power Play' where Angel kills Drogyn, he explains his plan, but Drogyn still died? He was innocent? How is this explained or is it?
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 7, 2008 9:43:52 GMT -5
I don't get it.
Yeah Angel killed Drogyn. Angel planned to get into the black thorn. He didn't plan for Drogyn to be the sacrifice at his initiation. To carry on the act Angel had to murder him.
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Post by buffyfan97 on Apr 7, 2008 10:23:31 GMT -5
ANgel explained that he had to kill Drogyn, if he had not the Order of the Blackthorn would of killed them both right there. So he didn't have a choice
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Post by Emmie on Apr 7, 2008 22:46:41 GMT -5
Which sucked beyond the telling of it. Angel had to murder his friend (they seemed like friends or atleast allies to me) while he had a soul. Talk about a setback on the road to redemption. I don't think you get brownie points for murdering a white champion in order to identify and target the orchestrators of the apocalypse. A necessary evil. Makes me think of him saying earlier in the episode how he can't "sweat the little stuff".
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Rachster
Bad Ass Wicca
♥Koala Girl♥
Rachster previousily know as buffyfanforever. :][Mo0:34]
Posts: 2,344
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Post by Rachster on Apr 7, 2008 22:53:00 GMT -5
i was sort of in shock when angel did that and biting him.. really disturbing i know it was to get into the black thorn circle and stuff but still that doesn't make it right does it?
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Apr 15, 2008 5:40:18 GMT -5
Oh, so The Black Thorn whould of killed them both there and then. Poor Drogyn.  |
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BenTaylor3907
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Illyria's Qwa'ha Xahn
~ Listening To Fear ~[Mo0:25]
Posts: 2,958
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Post by BenTaylor3907 on Apr 15, 2008 11:14:31 GMT -5
Angel did it for the greater good and I think Drogyn would have understanded that.
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artiswar
Novice Witch
Cool... what's a rogue demon??[Mo0:0]
Posts: 260
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Post by artiswar on Apr 15, 2008 18:53:48 GMT -5
This is a tad off-topic but it just occurred to me that the demon from Shanshu L.A belonged to the Circle Of The Black Thorn.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Apr 15, 2008 18:55:17 GMT -5
This is a tad off-topic but it just occurred to me that the demon from Shanshu L.A belonged to the Circle Of The Black Thorn. Ooo, interesting. How? |
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artiswar
Novice Witch
Cool... what's a rogue demon??[Mo0:0]
Posts: 260
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Post by artiswar on Apr 15, 2008 19:02:23 GMT -5
I was watching the end of Power Play and the mask he wears looks just like the ones some of the other members wore. It's not explicitly said, but I think it's implied that he was a member, why else would he be powerful enough to kill off the conduits for the Powers.
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 16, 2008 5:38:17 GMT -5
Thats a fooking beautiful theory I must say. Never thought about that before. As he turned up to get things done, Vocah fits the bill as "the senior partner's instrument on earth" perfectly. And the mask is similar.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Apr 16, 2008 12:56:56 GMT -5
Ahhh yeah Vocah. Well spotted.  |
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Post by Wyndam on Apr 16, 2008 13:05:59 GMT -5
That is pretty interesting. It would be really cool if they did design the Circle's masks after Vocah to make that connection.
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:10]
Posts: 684
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Post by iloveromy on Apr 19, 2008 9:56:16 GMT -5
I can't believe Angel killed Drogyn. But maybe it's not completely out of character for him. Angel almost killed Buffy in Season 3 to live so...
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Post by henzINNIT on Apr 19, 2008 12:51:22 GMT -5
Angel was in a pretty bad place by the end of season 5. He was desperate to hurt the senior partners. He would have done just about anything.
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Post by WolfRamHart420 on May 12, 2008 15:22:13 GMT -5
he had to do it casualties of war
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willowsummers
Respected Watcher
Quality time with Mr. Gordo?
Dabbling with magic[Mo0:9]
Posts: 579
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Post by willowsummers on Dec 5, 2009 22:55:35 GMT -5
I hate this. I understand the idea I guess but it's one of the things I really wish hadn't happened in Not Fade Away. That and him having Lorne kill Lindsay. Joss Whedon is a genius but he's willing to let his characters do anything good bad or ugly and sometimes it's just going to rub us the wrong way. It's part of good art though.
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zamolxis
Novice Witch
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 210 
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Post by zamolxis on Dec 6, 2009 3:53:46 GMT -5
he had to do it casualties of war I don't buy this 'for the greater good' BS. Angel was so arrogant in his obsession to do something against the Senior Partners that he would had killed anyone at that point including Buffy or Connor his son. And I think that the writers wouldn't dared to move that far with his character(Connor instead of Drogyn) |
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willowsummers
Respected Watcher
Quality time with Mr. Gordo?
Dabbling with magic[Mo0:9]
Posts: 579
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Post by willowsummers on Dec 6, 2009 18:44:49 GMT -5
Drogyn was the person to kill because he was the perfect symbol of purity and good but that is also what makes it so awful that Angel killed him. I'm sure Drogyn would have agreed to it if Angel had asked him, but he didn't. That's what bothers me. I also realize though that he couldn't tell Drogyn because he can't lie so he couldn't be relied upon to keep a secret.
I don't have a problem with Angel so much as it raises philosophical questions. Is it right to fight? Or should we be like Lorne and just try to make everyone get along? Angel did a lot of good, but some of what he did was definitely questionable and it was because he was, to make something really simple out of it, fighting instead of loving.
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on Dec 6, 2009 19:20:00 GMT -5
I hate this. I understand the idea I guess but it's one of the things I really wish hadn't happened in Not Fade Away. That and him having Lorne kill Lindsay. Joss Whedon is a genius but he's willing to let his characters do anything good bad or ugly and sometimes it's just going to rub us the wrong way. It's part of good art though. For me, Lorne killing Lindsey makes even less sense. I mean, I understand that he will "never be part of the solution", but he was human and had a soul. He even helped them. Didn't he deserve the same chance at redemption that Angel gave Gunn, Faith, and himself? |
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