BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on May 7, 2009 16:47:05 GMT -5
It used to be under Dark Horse...why the company change?
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jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
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Post by jellymoff on May 7, 2009 18:39:14 GMT -5
I don''t know if the companies have shared the exact reason, but I think it was all about business and money. I'm guessing Dark Horse's agreement ran out and IDW made a better offer, and actually had plans to do something with the license. Angel came back to comics well before Buffy with "The Curse", and other stories.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on May 15, 2009 13:19:25 GMT -5
Because all is right with the world.
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Post by Emmie on May 15, 2009 13:31:17 GMT -5
Because all is right with the world. There are some pretty obvious examples to the contrary, but I don't want to bash. Sorry for the cryptic but if you're curious, shoot me a PM.
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Post by Wyndam on May 15, 2009 13:58:07 GMT -5
I couldn't be happier that Angel is with IDW and not Dark Horse or another company. Sure Aftermath was a misstep, but overall Me = One Happy Camper.
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Nina
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 141
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Post by Nina on May 15, 2009 17:08:36 GMT -5
Yeah, me too. IDW gives us a lot of titles (main series and random short tales like 'Blood and Trenches') and beautiful hardcovers. There is a lot of attention for Ats, attention they will never get somewhere else. Simply because Ats is not a big title for the most companies, even for Dark Horse it would be an extra title next to the more popular and bigger BtVS title.
Besides, there are crossovers possible ... but it's not super easy. Which is good IMO, I have something against random crossovers because they can do it. When characters are needed for a story, it's great but just lame visits and stunts to stir up the sale, are not my thing.
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Post by angeliclestat on May 15, 2009 18:03:26 GMT -5
Oh yua..I am really happy that Angel is with IDW. If it was with Dark Horse I can guarantee you we would still be waiting for a series. Joss is great and all...but he doesnt care anymore about Angel. So I am glad the property is with a company that cares about it.
After the Fall was amazing. So is Blood and Trenches. The episode adaptations have been excellent, as have some of the one shots that came before. Aftermath hasnt been great...but thats one mis-step amongst a lot of great stuff.
Long may it stay there!
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Post by Brian Lynch on May 15, 2009 19:54:35 GMT -5
Because all is right with the world. There are some pretty obvious examples to the contrary, but I don't want to bash. Sorry for the cryptic but if you're curious, shoot me a PM. Don't bash, thank you for that, but also don't talk behind people's backs. Anything you heard, you can share. We're all friends here.
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Post by Emmie on May 15, 2009 20:15:42 GMT -5
Don't bash, thank you for that, but also don't talk behind people's backs. Anything you heard, you can share. We're all friends here. Perhaps bash isn't the best word since I don't make judgments without having a reason. I've begun to feel like a broken record when it comes to be mired in the negative regarding the ANGEL side of my comic-buying trends. Do I think ANGEL is where it should be? Up through After the Fall #17, I would have answered without hesitation "Yes." But there just seems to be a growing trend and a overcoming sense of entropy with the stories being told in IDW's Angelverse. Instead of the feeling given that there is a grand plan leading the characters, there are numerous side stories here and then side stories there. It feels like the Angelverse is splintering. Maybe that's the inevitability of it being realized in the comics. But that's one thing that isn't true for Dark Horse's Buffyverse. That comic has it's own quirks and foibles, but unity of vision and a clear storytelling structure isn't one of them. Basically, my problem comes from the feeling that there's a lack of unifying vision and a longterm plan. And sadly, (this is why I didn't really want to post this earlier) I'm afraid I don't have confidence that Ryall is able to provide this due to the two instances of continuity issues regarding the transition from After the Fall and Aftermath. First - the Gunn was in a coma, now he's riding around in a car thing (I know you, Lynch, have managed to spin that into a story opportunity about how Gunn got to that point). Second, that Armstrong has created a situation where the PTB were sending powerful beings into Hell-A appears to directly contradict what Cordelia and Wes said in After the Fall - that the PTB couldn't get in. The buck stops with the editor for IDW's Angelverse. The longterm vision of the story seems destined to be passed off into different hands for each arc. Disunited, entropic and disturbing. To go from After the Fall to Aftermath was like a kick in the teeth to me. Frankly, I'd like the buck to not stop with an editor but with a stronger creative force behind the Angelverse. One person or a team working together in one cohesive unit. Season 8 has certainly had its moments too, but to go from the highest high that After the Fall left on to Aftermath - well, I've stopped buying those issues and plan to return for the Gunn and Drusilla stories for #23-25, but dang. I'm severely tried by this lack of confidence in the brand.
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Post by Brian Lynch on May 15, 2009 21:02:25 GMT -5
Your confidence is tried because of one storyline? Even if you don't like AFTERMATH, it's five issues in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 15, 2009 21:18:28 GMT -5
I think what IDW is doing now with Angel is like what Dark Horse was doing before Season 8... "expanded universe" stories that don't necessarily have to match up with official continuity.
Of the recent IDW Angel comics, my understanding is that "After the Fall" 1-17 and 23, plus "Spike: After the Fall" are canon. What happened in those issues is what really happened in the Bangelverse. Everything else is not, which means it can go off the continuity rails a bit without hurting anything... just like the Dark Horse stories did... some very good ones, and some stinkers.
I'm obsessive-compulsive when it comes to canon (more so than is really healthy), but I think it's OK to go exploring with the expanded universe stuff. Canon is important, but it's also restrictive, and sometimes that restrictiveness can be a barrier to an interesting story. Even Joss himself has seen fit to play around outside the borders of his own canon ("Long Night's Journey").
This, of course, is completely separate from the question of whether a story is any good or not. The best non-canon stuff is way better than the worst canon stuff, IMO.
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Post by Emmie on May 15, 2009 21:19:01 GMT -5
It's the lack of consistency. To go from so high up to dropping so low. No safety net. I also think it's a rare quality in a writer that fits Whedonverse material. (Basically, I'm just saying why don't you run the whole thing and be done with it, heh.) I'd like a unifying creative force behind the driver's seat. I get no sense that the stories connect to each other besides having the same characters in them. Is it the lack of the word "season" (which I know can't be used)? I don't know, but I want the story written for Issue 40 of ANGEL to tie back in to #1. How can this be done when there's no one creatively guiding that? It's the role of Greenwalt and then Minear and then Fury and Whedon. It's the role of the continuity assistant we saw for Dollhouse on one of those behind-the-scenes videos who makes sure that it all adds up. It's not adding up right now. And all we have is After the Fall and Aftermath. First good, the second not so good. And I'm not looking at this in terms of numbers of issues equaling the batting average. You've got one hit and one miss. The triple feature season premiere soared while the next episode was a clunker. It's a problem generated by the creative structure of IDW's Angelverse. Nobody's holding all the creative threads together in one pool. The pools are all disjointed and not mixing nicely. The second continuity error with the Potentates made me wonder - did Armstrong even read all of After the Fall when writing Aftermath? I think what IDW is doing now with Angel is like what Dark Horse was doing before Season 8... "expanded universe" stories that don't necessarily have to match up with official continuity. The problem with this is that Aftermath continues the numbering of After the Fall. If it didn't I'd agree with you. But because it does, then the story needs to actually properly build on what happened in After the Fall. The Potentates continuity error is damned annoying to me because of this. I don't want an expanded universe where ANGEL stories contradict each other. I want an ANGEL universe where it's all connected and interwoven into this beautiful tapestry of character development and complex themes. I'm not even touching the canon door right now, but the problem I see with the expanded universe model is that IDW is actually undermining their own authority on making "canon" by using this structure of entropy which leads to continuity contradictions. Not only is it not canon, it's not continuous which in my book is a big part of being not good.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on May 15, 2009 21:25:36 GMT -5
The problem with this is that Aftermath continues the numbering of After the Fall. That's just a marketing decision by IDW to try and keep the sales momentum on the series going. It's just a number. Numbers are our servants, not our masters.
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Post by Brian Lynch on May 15, 2009 21:28:54 GMT -5
And again, you've only read three issues of the non AFT stuff. I understand your position, though. Believe-you-me, I truly do.
And I can promise the SPIKE book will be the best comic that ever was. I just some help naming it!
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Post by Emmie on May 15, 2009 21:30:10 GMT -5
The problem with this is that Aftermath continues the numbering of After the Fall. That's just a marketing decision by IDW to try and keep the sales momentum on the series going. It's just a number. Numbers are our servants, not our masters. I'm well aware. But the numbering should at least be followed up with intentions to make the story actually match up with what it follows before. How hard is that? I'm serious here - did Armstrong actually read all of After the Fall? Or is this another case of hit and miss where Kate doesn't sound like Kate (or dress like her either)?
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on May 15, 2009 21:45:10 GMT -5
I don't mind Angel being with another company, but I much prefer the way Dark Horse handles Buffy, for exactly the reasons Emmie described above. With DH, we have one main ongoing Buffy title being overseen by Joss, with the occasional tie-in like the online comics and Tales of the Vampires. It's simple, easy-to-follow, and there's no question of what is canon. But over at IDW, the series is scattered across all these different titles, it feels excessive and disorganised. Emmie hit the nail on the head when she said the Angel franchise is "splintering" and lacks unity. Your confidence is tried because of one storyline? Even if you don't like AFTERMATH, it's five issues in the grand scheme of things. Except there doesn't appear to be a "grand scheme of things" in the same sense as Season Eight. With that, even the crappier stories feel like they're part of a larger vision, whereas Aftermath feels like it's being made up as it goes along. And I can promise the SPIKE book will be the best comic that ever was. I just some help naming it! The Spike series is the only Buffyverse book in IDW's future that I'm genuinely excited for. No pressure. I'm not keen on The Adventures of Spike, that sounds like an Enid Blyton novel or something. I think Spike works just fine, it follows the precedent of Angel and Fray. If you're set on a full title, look at Buffy the Vampire Slayer; think of the tone and mission statment of the series, what Spike stands for as a character, and work backwards from that.
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Post by Emmie on May 15, 2009 22:53:03 GMT -5
Here's a little analogy for how I view the DH-Buffy and IDW-Angel split of the universes.
DH-Buffy is the North in the Civil War and IDW-Angel is the South (please disregard any negative historical connotations attached for this analogy). The difference? They split amicably though the North is still kicking itself for letting IDW-Angel/South slip away. But instead of the IDW-Angel/South becoming it's own country, it continues to splinter and secede until all the states that make up the Confederacy of IDW-Angel are full of small, unrelated and separate entities.
In an ideal world, we'd have a unified nation. One 'verse, under Joss, with liberty and justice for all. But because we have a 'verse divided between companies, I'd like the IDW-South to stay strong and unified.
ETA: And lovely. My karma has been docked since I started talking honestly about my feelings regarding the Angel franchise. Lynch, this is why I normally take this to PM's. People get incredibly petty when it comes to anyone critiquing a piece. This is part of why I've stopped posting in the ANGEL board. Because I'm not rah-rahing everything, every post I make is like a target for the uberfans of the series.
Seriously, I really do hate the "Negative Karma" system we do here. I refuse to use it on anyone even if I disagree with them. And ironically enough, I'm off to go give new members 100 point karma bumps for joining the forum. Go figure.
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Post by Brian Lynch on May 15, 2009 23:48:33 GMT -5
I didn't even notice the karma thing until you mentioned it. What is it?
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Post by Emmie on May 15, 2009 23:51:27 GMT -5
When used benevolently, it's to show that you enjoyed someone's post or the point they raised. Sadly, the curse option is there to do the opposite.
I'd much rather someone just quote me and say "I couldn't disagree more" than do a drive-by karma curse. *shrugs*
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Post by wenxina on May 15, 2009 23:56:32 GMT -5
I'm not keen on The Adventures of Spike, that sounds like an Enid Blyton novel or something. *karmas for mentioning Enid Blyton* Ahhh... good times...
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