Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 8, 2008 23:02:01 GMT -5
Brian on IDW: "It wasn't Eve, no. Wolfram & Hart were tempting Wesley with the promise of his lady, so they were just going for some symbolic imagery."
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Post by Emmie on May 8, 2008 23:09:45 GMT -5
I didn't think it was Eve. I just took the imagery to further the temptation Wesley was feeling. Also, my subconscious has blocked the possibility that Eve will ever come back.
IMO Eve resurrecting (whether she's dead or not, she's dead to me lol) is at the bottom of the list of possible comebacks. After...wow I can't think of anyone I'd want back less than Eve. And I seriously tried.
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El Diablo Robotico
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"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 9, 2008 2:03:55 GMT -5
So I intentionally let myself be spoiled for this issue before I got my copy, and after reading the comments here, I was expecting to find Gunn had a bunch of slayers chained up down in his basement. And then reading the dialogue on the final page, before examining the pictures closely, I assumed he was keeping them down there for his boys to pound on, training them the way Holtz & Justine trained their group. But then looking at the picture carefully, I don't think that's the case at all. They don't appear to be chained up or restrained in any way, and the opponents they're fighting seem to be one vampire and two of those skeleton-jellyfish demons (like Kr'ph, in the first issue). I don't even think that room is Gunn's basement, since the description of #10 makes it sound like whatever he's keeping in his basement is going to be revealed then, not now, in #7. I'm thinking this is more of a case where Gunn knows there are some slayers there in LA with them, and is sending his crew out to fight them. The ones that survive are the badass ones he wants at his side, and the ones who get staked obviously weren't worth having around, anyway. About the rest of the issue: - I was never a big Kate fan, so I'm pretty lukewarm about seeing her again. But I did always have a mild curiousity about what happened to her after she got fired in S2, so it was nice to finally find that out. Still, if we never see her again after this, that'd be just okey-dokey with me. - It was worth having her back in this one appearance, tho, just for the sake of having her pass on one of Angel's best speeches, his great epiphany, to Connor... and then having Connor sorta stomp all over it (without even realizing!). - Wesley's story was great, and I love Nick Runge's art! A couple of panels, the likenesses were not-so-much, but overall he did a good job with 'em, and just his overall style is great. I still wish they could've kept the same artist all the way thru the series (maybe with the exception of "First Night"), but if they had to change, at least the replacement looks to be top-notch.
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
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Post by barryshaft on May 9, 2008 6:50:07 GMT -5
Easily my favourite issue of the series so far. Wesley's story was pitch perfect, heartbreaking stuff... but very very natural. And Nick Runge's art is absolutely amazing. I've been very down with Franco's art so far...but I can't go back now (ok, for Spike:ATF I can).
My favourite part was definately Kate (though it was spoiled right in the inside cover...I mean...so much trouble to hide the character and then...bam first thing you read. I'd actually thought the mystery character could have been Kate but to be honest I thought that was just wishful thinking. This is by far a much much more interesting story then could have been told with any of the other candidates. Sorry guys, but I'm not really a fan of ressurecting characters when their stories already reached their natural conclusions (hence not a fan of theories regarding Darla or Cordy returning). This is exactly how I wanted to see Kate return to the series and I can't believe it actually happened. She was a really interesting character on the show who left just when she was reaching her most interesting moments... Fantastic writing Brian.
Again, fantastic issue.
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Post by wenxina on May 9, 2008 10:15:54 GMT -5
My favourite part was definately Kate (though it was spoiled right in the inside cover...I mean...so much trouble to hide the character and then...bam first thing you read. I thought so too... but I think if it had just said Connor part deux or something, some people might have gone through the whole issue, and then have gone "Did Cordy show up? Was there a panel I missed?" Would have preferred the title to have been after her arrival, though. I thought that the writing was great in this issue. It even topped Lorne's little ditty (from #6) which I personally thought... the rhyme scheme, while not the most original, had just the right amount of camp, sass, and tragedy in it to be totally Lorne.
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Rachster
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Post by Rachster on May 9, 2008 11:17:22 GMT -5
Ok so i just read it and i thought it was awesome except i was really disappointed it was Kate i really really wanted it to be Darla but the rest was really cool I cant wait to see why Wes is there only hope And is there any chance at all that there might be a Buffy angel crossover to do with the slayers?
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 9, 2008 12:18:31 GMT -5
Even tho I'm not a huge Kate fan, I'm very happy it didn't turn out to be Darla. And I don't say that because I don't like Darla--I actually do. But having a vision of Darla show up to try to straighten Connor out is something they already did on the show ("Inside Out"), so no need to re-hash the same old plot. Using Kate to do it, instead, was a cool and unexpected twist...
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 9, 2008 14:21:38 GMT -5
I didn't think it was Eve. I just took the imagery to further the temptation Wesley was feeling. Also, my subconscious has blocked the possibility that Eve will ever come back. IMO Eve resurrecting (whether she's dead or not, she's dead to me lol) is at the bottom of the list of possible comebacks. After...wow I can't think of anyone I'd want back less than Eve. And I seriously tried. Didn't we find out Eve was dead in Issue 5? When Wesley is in The White Room(?), the Senior Partners(?) mentioned they could of gone with Lindsey instead.... or Eve. I don't know if that means she did die, but that's what I got from it.
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barryshaft
Novice Witch
Sometimes I shouldn't say words...[Mo0:0]
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Post by barryshaft on May 9, 2008 14:28:56 GMT -5
Yes I believe your right hitnrun
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Post by Emmie on May 9, 2008 14:32:55 GMT -5
I guess she is dead. If by using Eve, they meant sending her back in a non-corporeal state.
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Post by hitnrun017 on May 9, 2008 15:31:33 GMT -5
Ugh I am hating this comic more and more. Excuse the rant but 1) The art is shocking 2) The covers are crap except for 2 or 3 2) Far to many characters coming back and for no reason at all that we no of yet 3) Gwen and Nina have done nothing at all, why are they back? 4) It was brilliant to see Kate again but we would have seen her well before now if she was just randomly still living in LA. Also she was never that tough on the show, weird armoury room?? 5) Angel and the dragon are now sort of friends is total bul* sh*t, would have never happened. This is Angel not some crappy kids programme where the dragon was a nice one that helped people 6) Beta George is pathetic. I suppose funny in a non canon series but this is menat to be an official seaosn 6 and I'm just not feeling it 7) These past few issues mainly 'first night' are hard to follow. Three comics all in one doesn't feel right at all though I did like the Wesley one and part 1 of Connors although why does he keep listing his dads and what they would do. I get it he's had a lot of different father figures get over it! 8) A vampire is beating up a telepathic fish, who has alos just been randomly using layers as punch bags to train. Yeah right 9) They have so many covers for each issue yet every month I can only ever get 2 of them. I know thats probably the shops fault but still 10) Far too many mistakes in it. No Angel tatoo, Illyria stabs Angel with at least 6 daggers and then he's fine...he's supposed to be human!! 11) It over all feels (right now anyway) that Buffy season 8 was dong so well and it still is so they decided to cash in and make a half as*ed season 6 that Joss can't even be bothered writing himself. Brian Lynch is awesome but I feel this was to big a project for him to be writing. If Joss didn't do it then, David Greenwalt, Tim Minear, Jeph Leob and so may other good Angel writers that could have done it. I've written and read fan fics better than this. Harsh to say but so true. However after all of this I'll keep reading and hopefully by the end I'll be able to take back all of what I've just said. There has been A LOT of AMAZING things though like....I honestly can't think of any. There has been good things but not amazing then! The fight scen in issue 5 was okay I suppose, when Angel flew in and caught the guy on the dragon. I can't wait and see where vamp Gunn is goung because right now thats the only reason I'm reading this. The rest is added on stuff to pro long the book. Sorry for the rant but I just feel very let doen and disapointed in this. I love Buffy, Angel the series, Firefly, Serenity and I'm really looking forward to Joss's Dollhouse but After The Fall has been a big let down. I don't want you to think of this as an attack. I'm just basing my opinion on things you brought up. 1. It all boils down to opinion, I personally love it. 2. Yeah, the covers arn't as good as Season 8, but what does that have to do with the quality of the series? 3. What's so different than Amy, Warren and Dracula? 4. Things change during a 3-year span 5. Why exactly does this matter? Usually in kid shows, dragons don't kill a bunch of demons. We learned The Dragon was misled. There are all kinds of good demons on the show, what's the difference? 6. Everyone has different opinions on characters... 7. I'm not big on the placement of First Night either, but I don't think it's bad. And judging what Connor's going through, I don't think it's something you get over rather quickly. 8. We know absolutely nothing about the Slayers yet, besides the fact that they are there, and Gunn is using them for something. 9. Don't see the big deal with covers. 10. There have been just as many in Buffy. Wesley and Angel have been using Wolfram & Hart supplies to heal his wounds. 11. Joss wouldn't have chosen Brian to write it if he didn't think he could do it. Joss is over-seeing everything too, like he is doing with Season 8. I'm actually enjoying After the Fall more than I am Season 8. I'm a lot more interested in the characters and story, I think it flows better too.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 15:53:50 GMT -5
I prefer Angel: After the Fall to Buffy: Season 8, too. It's tight, fast-paced, and with more seasoned and likable characters. Buffy: Season 8 very often reads like crackfic.
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Post by Brian Lynch on May 9, 2008 15:59:24 GMT -5
::Ugh I am hating this comic more and more. Excuse the rant but Here we go! ::1) The art is shocking Shockingly good? Sweet! ::2) The covers are crap except for 2 or 3 Matter of opinion, I guess. ::2) Far to many characters coming back and for no reason at all that we no of yet Two number twos, awesome. I fought for having each character proclaim "I'm back and here's why!" but Joss and Ryall were all "let's do it well." ::3) Gwen and Nina have done nothing at all, why are they back? They're helping Connor. ::4) It was brilliant to see Kate again but we would have seen her well before now if she was just randomly still living in LA. Also she was never that tough on the show, weird armoury room?? It wasn't her room. She's been through a lot since we saw her last, huh? And she's not "randomly living in LA", she's trying to help where she's needed, and she knows LA needs help. ::5) Angel and the dragon are now sort of friends is total bul* sh*t, would have never happened. This is Angel not some crappy kids programme where the dragon was a nice one that helped people Ah. What? ::6) Beta George is wrong for this series. I suppose funny in a non canon series but this is meant to be an official seaosn 6 and I'm just not feeling it Thankfully many disagree. :7) These past few issues mainly 'first night' are hard to follow. Three comics all in one doesn't feel right at all though I did like the Wesley one and part 1 of Connors although why does he keep listing his dads and what they would do. I get it he's had a lot of different father figures get over it! He's confused. kate helped straighten him out. :8) A vampire is beating up a telepathic fish, who has also just been randomly using layers as punch bags to train. Yeah right Huh? :9) They have so many covers for each issue yet every month I can only ever get 2 of them. I know thats probably the shops fault but still If you hate the comic so much why do you even want one? 10) Far too many mistakes in it. No Angel tatoo, Illyria stabs Angel with at least 6 daggers and then he's fine...he's supposed to be human!! "Tatoo" will be explained, Angel's using all sorts of voodoo to heal himself, as we've seen him do twice already. And he is human. :11) It over all feels (right now anyway) that Buffy season 8 was dong so well and it still is so they decided to cash in and make a half as*ed season 6 that Joss can't even be bothered writing himself. Brian Lynch is awesome How am I awesome if I'm writing a book you hate? :but I feel this was to big a project for him to be writing. If Joss didn't do it then, David Greenwalt, Tim Minear, Jeph Leob and so may other good Angel writers that could have done it. I've written and read fan fics better than this. Harsh to say but so true. I guess you should stop buying it? :However after all of this I'll keep reading and hopefully by the end Why? Do you know what I do if I'm reading something I don't like? I stop reading it. It's totally fine if you do. :I'll be able to take back all of what I've just said. There has been A LOT of AMAZING things though like....I honestly can't think of any. Ouch! Bait and switch! :There has been good things but not amazing then! The fight scen in issue 5 was okay I suppose, when Angel flew in and caught the guy on the dragon. I can't wait and see where vamp Gunn is goung because right now thats the only reason I'm reading this. The rest is added on stuff to pro long the book. Is it? Weird. I guess we should have called it "GUNN". M ::Sorry for the rant but I just feel very let doen and disapointed in this. I love Buffy, Angel the series, Firefly, Serenity and I'm really looking forward to Joss's Dollhouse but After The Fall has been a big let down. So, again, it's totally fine if you stop reading it. [/quote]
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iloveromy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by iloveromy on May 9, 2008 16:14:55 GMT -5
So uh... (senses awkward tension in the room) Does um, yeah, um... about that Donnie Darko 2. I bet that's gonna suck!
But for real, After the Fall is pretty darn good. I'm really warming up to Franco's artwork. I didn't read any of Lynch's stuff before this and I really do feel it is in the spirit of the show.
I really wish people would look at Season 8 and Angel: After the Fall in a bigger scheme. Isn't it the over arching story that is the most important? After the fall has a good head on its shoulders. I might not like every little thing in each issue, but I could say the same for the show.
So there. Two cents.
Iloveromy out.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on May 9, 2008 16:17:32 GMT -5
aow, Lynch aims, he shoots, he scores.
I think Brian covered a lot, but I got a few answers too.
::3) Gwen and Nina have done nothing at all, why are they back?
It's only been 7 issues, calm down.
::4) It was brilliant to see Kate again but we would have seen her well before now if she was just randomly still living in LA. Also she was never that tough on the show, weird armoury room??
We only saw 40min per week of Angel and his friends life, they can't show too much, and kate was never that important compared to other characters.
::6) Beta George is wrong for this series. I suppose funny in a non canon series but this is meant to be an official seaosn 6 and I'm just not feeling it
The comics with Betta George seems pretty canon now when he's in After the fall.
:7) These past few issues mainly 'first night' are hard to follow. Three comics all in one doesn't feel right at all though I did like the Wesley one and part 1 of Connors although why does he keep listing his dads and what they would do. I get it he's had a lot of different father figures get over it!
He's screwed up, so he can't get over it. I love the listing. it was funny and insightful. but that's my opinion.
:11) It over all feels (right now anyway) that Buffy season 8 was dong so well and it still is so they decided to cash in and make a half as*ed season 6 that Joss can't even be bothered writing himself. Brian Lynch is awesome but I feel this was to big a project for him to be writing. If Joss didn't do it then, David Greenwalt, Tim Minear, Jeph Leob and so may other good Angel writers that could have done it. I've written and read fan fics better than this. Harsh to say but so true.
How do you know that they do it for the money? Are you a mindreader?
To finish; the comic book is very different from the show. Not plot-wise or characters-wise, but it's told differently, since it's a comic. It's no surprise that some people will have a hard time to adapt. But maybe it will workout for you inte the end . I hated season 6 of buffy until after Grave. Then it all seemed worth it.
Atleast you got the first 5 seasons.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
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Post by patxshand on May 9, 2008 16:20:43 GMT -5
I love the eighth season of Buffy... but "After the Fall" is just better. I care about Angel, Spike, Wes, and Illyria's story more than any other character's, so I'd be first to say if Brian isn't doing them or the story justice.... but I don't need to say that, because he is doing them justice. Twice over. Joss and Brian did the impossible--which is keeping up the momentum of "Not Fade Away."
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
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"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on May 9, 2008 16:42:14 GMT -5
11) It over all feels (right now anyway) that Buffy season 8 was dong so well and it still is so they decided to cash in and make a half as*ed season 6 that Joss can't even be bothered writing himself. Brian Lynch is awesome but I feel this was to big a project for him to be writing. If Joss didn't do it then, David Greenwalt, Tim Minear, Jeph Leob and so may other good Angel writers that could have done it. I've written and read fan fics better than this. Harsh to say but so true. Greenwalt's my favorite "Angel" writer ever, and Minear was really good, too, but can you refresh my memory on all the great episodes Jeph Loeb wrote? Because I'm drawing a blank on those. And without even having read them, I'd like to challenge the comment about the quality of your fanfics--based on spelling and grammar alone. Harsh but true. With each new issue that comes out, I'm finding myself more and more wishing that Brian had had the chance to write for the show, too. There are a few writers over the years who he definitely would've been a big improvement on...
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 16:49:45 GMT -5
Have Greenwalt and Minear both written for the comic medium? That they're good TV writers doesn't necessarily mean they'd be good comic writers.
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Post by Emmie on May 9, 2008 16:55:06 GMT -5
Ok, here's my issue with this. If anyone is going to critique the comics, can it atleast be constructive. Rather than calling stuff "crap" about AtF or "crackfic" about Buffy Season 8.
Whedon Fan, I'm not sure I understand why you'd continue reading the AtF comic since you clearly don't like it. A lot of your complaints seem to stem from a refusal to accept the direction the story is headed.
In the end, all I can say is I like this comic ALOT and I'm so happy to have it. I can appreciate your not being into it, but can you refrain from bashing it. I'm all for analyzing the comics but calling it "crap" and "bullsh*t" or saying things are happening for no reason, that's not constructive criticism. Some of your points have been discussed before, but your use of inflammatory insults pushed it over the edge and made it ugly to read. Toxic critique.
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Enisy
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 643
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Post by Enisy on May 9, 2008 17:12:31 GMT -5
Ok, here's my issue with this. If anyone is going to critique the comics, can it atleast be constructive. Rather than calling stuff "crap" about AtF or "crackfic" about Buffy Season 8. Point. I guess I spend too much time on LiveJournal, where the term "crackfic" is thrown around very lightly (especially in conjunction with Season 8), sometimes even affectionately.
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