Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 3, 2009 13:29:09 GMT -5
It seems to me, especially since the beginning of the Retreat arc, that Willow is progressively becoming a key player in the series, almost overshadowing Buffy.
Buffy is still in charge of the army of slayers, but Willow seems to have under her wing the group of Wicca-slayers who are doing most of the work with all the spells and stuff. Everytime things get tough, Willow has to intervene in a I'll do it/I'll take care of it kind of way. It feels like Buffy is at a loss right now, and Willow seems the strongest of the two.
Buffy, once again, is starting to worry about Willow's fast-growing powers.
Is Willow progressively taking over, becoming the general in chief instead of Buffy? Is she about to overthrow her at some point or something? Are you ready for a new open confrontation between the two friends?
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Joe
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Post by Joe on Jul 3, 2009 13:55:54 GMT -5
I voted no because Buffy is still the key player in all of the slayer-workings but Willow is definitely way more powerful and could beat Buffy in battle if it ever came to that.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 3, 2009 14:07:36 GMT -5
I voted no because Buffy is still the key player in all of the slayer-workings but Willow is definitely way more powerful and could beat Buffy in battle if it ever came to that. Well, this can't be a good sign then. If Buffy starts being noticeably less powerfull than Willow she's going to lose her authority in the group. It's hard to remain the one in charge one somebody else is overshadowing you all the time. It's all going to end with a coup.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 3, 2009 14:13:30 GMT -5
No. Willow and magic are important but Buffy's story hasn't lost focus.
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 3, 2009 14:16:58 GMT -5
No. Willow and magic are important but Buffy's story hasn't lost focus. Agreed. Plus Willow has been stronger than Buffy for a while now, the key is that she currently knows her place. Buffy is still General, and Willow still follows orders.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 3, 2009 14:20:52 GMT -5
No. Willow and magic are important but Buffy's story hasn't lost focus. I don't think it's about losing focus. Of course Buffy is still in the center of all the storylines. She's the reason why the group is sticking together, in a way, and they're not going to change the title from Buffy The Vampure Slayer, to Willow the Powerful Witch. But inside the story, Buffy is losing control and this is undeniable. I think.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 3, 2009 15:43:03 GMT -5
I haven't read issue 26 yet, but I seriously doubt Willow is ready to take charge. Being powerful and extremely helpful doesn't mean that Willow's ready or willing to lead. I think she can do it, we saw that in the end of season 5 and the beginning of season 6, even tough her mistake of bringing Buffy out of heaven might have made her uneasy about being in control in the future. Also, her and the others kicking Buffy out of the house might have made her unwilling to risk doing that in the future.
Unless she thinks Buffy is unable or unfit to lead, she won't try to take over, no matter if she actually thinks she can do it or not.
I can see her taking charge incase Buffy needs some time of, but then I think Xander would have an equal say, since he seems to have way more experience than Willow to deal with the slayers, since she hasn't been around for that long. Or maybe she has caught up.
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 3, 2009 15:55:31 GMT -5
Willow is definitely able to lead. Out of every other character on Buffy, I think Willow showed the most potential in taking charge. There are quite a few moments where Willow has issued orders, and gotten no resistance from the other characters. Most of the time though, Buffy wasn't there or was incapable of leading. So as long as Buffy is around, Willow and Xander will be her first lieutenants. Unless Willow goes Dark again, of course, but then she will be an enemy and against Buffy, which is different than trying to usurp Buffy's power.
I do think that this "no magic" thing is going to cause some tension between Buffy and Willow, like the solicits suggest, but I doubt it will go so far as Willow trying to take control. And hopefully if Willow does start to slip and go another way, Buffy, Giles, Xander, Dawn, Kennedy, etc. will be unified and make her see reason quickly.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 3, 2009 16:06:58 GMT -5
I haven't read issue 26 yet, but I seriously doubt Willow is ready to take charge. Being powerful and extremely helpful doesn't mean that Willow's ready or willing to lead. I think she can do it, we saw that in the end of season 5 and the beginning of season 6, even tough her mistake of bringing Buffy out of heaven might have made her uneasy about being in control in the future. Also, her and the others kicking Buffy out of the house might have made her unwilling to risk doing that in the future. Unless she thinks Buffy is unable or unfit to lead, she won't try to take over, no matter if she actually thinks she can do it or not. I can see her taking charge incase Buffy needs some time of, but then I think Xander would have an equal say, since he seems to have way more experience than Willow to deal with the slayers, since she hasn't been around for that long. Or maybe she has caught up. Well, you'll see that in issue 26, Willow goes another step closer to overpowering Buffy. She's in charge of a lot of things. I know that people want to trust her intentions and keep saying that she's not willing to be in charge but this is not exactly the question. Officially Buffy is still the leader, but technically Willow is gaining a lot of authority too. We could assume this is a status quo and the balance of powers ain't gonna change... but it's just overlooking what we already know: that we're going to get a Buffy/Willow confrontation by the end of Retreat and Willow is most probably going to go dark in the future. I think many people here are kidding themselves. Joss Whedon is preparing us for great drama! I think I'm hooked with the comic again!
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jul 3, 2009 16:23:37 GMT -5
Right now, Willow is entrusted with running all the things where her areas of expertise lie... commanding the Wiccans, putting in all the magical defenses, etc. Buffy considers her a friend rather than an underling, but Willow hasn't really opposed her on anything beyond mentioning her disapproval.
That is going to change before the current arc is over. There will be a rift between Buffy and Willow over Buffy's orders to stop using magic, and over Willow's reaction to being told about the future events in ToYL.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 3, 2009 16:29:58 GMT -5
Right now, Willow is entrusted with running all the things where her areas of expertise lie... commanding the Wiccans, putting in all the magical defenses, etc. Buffy considers her a friend rather than an underling, but Willow hasn't really opposed her on anything beyond mentioning her disapproval. That is going to change before the current arc is over. There will be a rift between Buffy and Willow over Buffy's orders to stop using magic, and over Willow's reaction to being told about the future events in ToYL. Do we know for sure that Willow is going to find out about what is "supposed" to happen to her in the future?? Is Buffy going to drop the info for the rest of the group?
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 3, 2009 17:33:54 GMT -5
Oh Willow will definitely find out about TOYL and her future, there's just too much drama/storytelling potential there for her not to find out.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 3, 2009 23:03:27 GMT -5
Yes, of course she will eventually find out. What I meant was is she going to find out during this ongoing arc? Because, this is potentially going to cause/add a lot of drama considering that things are already going to get tense over whether or not they should keep using magic to defend themselves.
This is going to become a MAJOR issue that might cause a serious split between the two friends.
I do think Willow has gained a lot of power/respect/authority inside the group to the point where Buffy's actions seem insignificant in comparison but I don't think Willow will ever be put in charge officially. Joss probably has something else in store for us. Something more dramatic.
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vampmogs
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Post by vampmogs on Jul 3, 2009 23:47:17 GMT -5
I’d like to hope that the slayer army isn’t hinging it’s trust on Buffy because of her power. That was Buffy and the Scoobies’ biggest mistake in Empty Places, when Buffy says she’s in charge because “she’s the slayer” so they naturally toss Faith in as her replacement. Regardless of the fact she wasn’t ready to lead at all.
Buffy’s always been the leader because she’s charismatic, inspirational and has natural leadership skills. Even in her Spordelia days she seemed to be the authoritarian and leader of her group.
Obviously she’s also leader of the slayer army because of her experience, the fact she helped created all the slayers ect. If the slayers wanted to over throw her so they could put the most powerful person in charge (Willow) they’d be making a terrible mistake. Not that I think Willow doesn’t have leadership skills either, she clearly does, but her power isn’t a good enough reason to make her leader.
It’s a good idea for a story though Mathieu. Often when stories are dramatic and interesting it’s because the characters aren’t making the right decisions.
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Mathieu
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Post by Mathieu on Jul 4, 2009 11:19:36 GMT -5
I don't think they will ever have Willow overthrow Buffy because this was already approached in Empty Places.
I just think that at some point Willow is going to realize that she's WAAAAY more powerful than Buffy and the moment she is going to seriously start questioning Buffy's decisions (the magic issue), she's going to question Buffy's authority too and might decide to distance herself from Buffy and maybe the rest of the group.
Hence Future Dark Willow.
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Post by PJ on Jul 4, 2009 11:25:11 GMT -5
nope. i don't think so, willow is my favorite character but buffy is still the leader. that's why joss called it "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Willow has though become a leader of her squad of wiccans, but buffy is still the authority.
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Jul 5, 2009 5:08:11 GMT -5
I don't get why people think Willow is more powerful than Buffy. I mean, yes she is a goddess and has centuries worth of magic on her side, but Buffy could just ... oh I don't know ... break her neck. Ever since DARK WILLOW everyone thinks that she is THAT powerful 24/7. Yes, we saw a side to her that could kick Buffy's ass, but that was a phase, and since then, as Buffy stated in the seventh season of Buffy, "Everyone has pretty much stopped being the best they can be". She saw Willow be at her most powerful, when she was DARK WILLOW, and knows that Willow has that in her. But what Willow doesn't know is that she can tap into that amount of power without going DARK. And when she tries, she goes DARK because of that weakness. Sorry to go off topic but ... just a big Buffy fan XD. lol.
I'd say season 8 focuses more on "slayers" in general, with BUFFY as their leader. She has been the main focus from the beginning of the season, excluding the one-shot issues such as Predators and Prey, etc. XD
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 5, 2009 5:25:15 GMT -5
I don't get why people think Willow is more powerful than Buffy. I mean, yes she is a goddess and has centuries worth of magic on her side, but Buffy could just ... oh I don't know ... break her neck. Ever since DARK WILLOW everyone thinks that she is THAT powerful 24/7. Yes, we saw a side to her that could kick Buffy's ass, but that was a phase, and since then, as Buffy stated in the seventh season of Buffy, "Everyone has pretty much stopped being the best they can be". She saw Willow be at her most powerful, when she was DARK WILLOW, and knows that Willow has that in her. But what Willow doesn't know is that she can tap into that amount of power without going DARK. And when she tries, she goes DARK because of that weakness. Sorry to go off topic but ... just a big Buffy fan XD. lol. I'd say season 8 focuses more on "slayers" in general, with BUFFY as their leader. She has been the main focus from the beginning of the season, excluding the one-shot issues such as Predators and Prey, etc. XD That wasn't off topic. I think she's gained a lot of power since season 7. Maybe she's even stronger now than when she was dark willow. But that's just my guess. The floathing, teleporting and animal transformation hints that she's learned a lot. I think that she's just as able to break Buffy's neck as Buffy is hers. Probably more, since she can do it from a distance. Slayer-speed should be taken into account tough. And it's not like Buffy hasn't fought and won over more "powerful" creatures before. But that's another thread. What makes you think she's a goddess?
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Post by diabeticdude202 on Jul 5, 2009 5:53:55 GMT -5
She became a goddess in the series finale ... or to be more up to date ... the seventh season finale. But I get what you mean, Willow has learnt a lot. But a lot of people are judging that by Dark Willow. Because she was no where near as powerful in season seven as she was in say, season 6. It's just her past that people depict her strength on. In season 7 she was quite weak ... in a way. Or dismissive of her powers. But I agree with you on the neck breaking thing lol. I can picture Willow clicking her fingers and *SNAP* goes Buffy's neck.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 5, 2009 6:33:02 GMT -5
Actually, other than Kennedy calling Willow a Goddess, there's no indication that she's anything other than human.
Willow transforming into a higher being of any form would probably be adressed.
And I agree with you; The power she had in Season 6 was probably temporary. I think a lot of it is still in her, but I think a lot left her when she let herself break down.
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