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Post by Emmie on Nov 7, 2009 17:55:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I gotta agree with Xi, I think the general consensus was that FDW wasn't evil. She was just manipulating the situation. If she was evil, she'd have killed Buffy when she had the chance. Instead, she more master-manipulated everyone. And that's really interesting thoughts about the power leech. I'd concluded that the burst of power was something necessary to open the vortex and send Buffy back to the present. But your theory is very intriguing! Thanks for posting.
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Post by Rebecca on Nov 7, 2009 18:31:15 GMT -5
1)This issue Twilight says "They're mortal. They have to die sometime." Isn't that somewhat of a big clue? Doesn't that indicate that he's something other than mortal? Or do you guys think I'm reading too much into that line? Hello!! Glad to have you in the forum, even if just reading I don't think you're reading into it too much at all. People simply don't refer to mortal beings if they themselves aren't immortal (or have some sort of extended life themselves). It also jives with the theory that Twilight is a vampire as indicated by his outfit covering him head to toe. I'm glad you pointed this out, I passed it by myself. There are clues to his identity, though they may not be evident until after the reveal; this very well may be one of them.
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Post by richieshag89 on Nov 7, 2009 20:40:56 GMT -5
Ok so I had already said that i think twilight is Future Buffy and that we saw twilight learn to fly in this last panel but then something else was brought to my attention.When Twilight, Amy and Warren are watching the battle, Twilight says "That goddess almost killed them." But it's not until two panels later that this almost-killing happens. Buffy see's this first hand and maybe that was Twilight two panels earlier remembering this back when it had happened. There are also other parallels between Buff and Twilight having the same conversations with their armies
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Post by richieshag89 on Nov 7, 2009 20:51:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I gotta agree with Xi, I think the general consensus was that FDW wasn't evil. She was just manipulating the situation. If she was evil, she'd have killed Buffy when she had the chance. Instead, she more master-manipulated everyone. And that's really interesting thoughts about the power leech. I'd concluded that the burst of power was something necessary to open the vortex and send Buffy back to the present. But your theory is very intriguing! Thanks for posting. EMMIE i just wanted to say that your review of this issue was the best review of any issue ive read on here or whedonesque
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 7, 2009 21:48:07 GMT -5
FDW wasn't evil... she just needed Buffy to think she was so that she'd be able to bring herself to kill her. For some reason, it was necessary that FDW had to die and that Buffy had to kill her (specifically with the Scythe, maybe.)
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beeemkcl
Common Vampire
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Post by beeemkcl on Nov 7, 2009 22:32:04 GMT -5
Hi, long-time lurker, first time poster. I've given my reviews over on IMDb on the "Buffy" Board.
Anyway, So, was Twilight using Oz as well? Things certainly worked out for him. The Slayers and Willow lost all their power. Their Plan B turned against everyone. And Twilight may have had men stationed behind them this whole time. Or at least had extra men to use to round up Buffy and Co. after the goddesses came and went.
So, now Buffy's whole little army that she had with her and Giles, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Faith, etc. are all rounded up by Twilight's men and are being taken away.
Other notes. Buffy is shown having affection for Xander. When she turns back to the group, she's touching his chin. So, very well she could be having feelings for Xander. Still, though, she may simply be glad that her friend is still alive. She's also shown having some feelings still for Riley. But her mission seems far more important than him, the possible information he has.
Another clue that Twilight may be Spike (I've believed for a long time now that Twilight is Spike. Everything seems to fit). He refers to the soldiers as "mortals" who will die some day anyway. This leads to Twilight being immortal. Or not, but it's an interesting term he used for them.
From the art and such, it seems the blue goddess gave Buffy power. Buffy's fall is lighted as green. And later we see Buffy can float in the air.
This comic is interesting and makes me look forward to #31. How powerful is Buffy now? Twilight has all her people now. What will he do with them?
It's also interesting that the general guy can yell at Twilight and question him without Twilight killing him. So, perhaps Twilight is getting the soldiers through him and therefore needs him? The tanks and such as well? It's also interesting and nice that Twilight kinda just rolls his eyes and shakes his head at Amy's and Warren's bickering. Though, I'd like to know if Amy actually said, "We can't trust anyone anymore. Tell me--" I assume it's Amy. It's also interesting that she seems to push Twilight with one hand and he wobbles. And does nothing to Amy for pushing him. Which, goes towards him regarding Amy and Warren as important to him. Which, they are. Amy has the magic and Warren can do the tech stuff.
I'm somewhat doubtful, but it'd be interesting if Twilight's whole plan was to take away the others' power and give Buffy more.
Given what we see later with the soldiers rounding up Buffy's people and the fact that Twilight hasn't killed Buffy yet, I don't think that one solider was actually going to gun Buffy down. Satsu simply thought he was. Maybe he was going rogue though, who knows.
So, so far, it seems that Twilight doesn't want Buffy dead. Or Willow. Or maybe even Xander, Giles, and Faith. Yet he has no problem with all the Slayers being killed who aren't Buffy and Faith. Maybe Satsu. Maybe Kennedy.
Also, assuming they all were captured, that'd include Oz, Bay, and Riley.
Something I just realized: It was snowing. It wasn't before. Remember "Amends" (3010). Could the Powers That Be be giving Buffy this power? And for all the talk of Buffy's fall, she wasn't shivering or anything when she wakes up. She's in snow... Any just a thought.
It also seems that the goddesses got to Buffy and Co. quickly because they weren't there and suddenly they are and the blue one picks up Buffy. Given that this was perhaps seconds after Buffy's speech and the goddesses weren't there when she ended it, it's curious. It's also curious that it seems the goddesses didn't kill any of them. The blue on lifted Buffy up and dropped her. But we see the rest being captured by the soldiers.
And in the last frame where we see Buffy floating or flying or whatever, the goddesses are partly on fire.
It's also interesting that it says "5 hours later" before we see Buffy again after the fall.
So, did Twilight and Co. do something to make them partly on fire? And why didn't they go and kill Twilight's people and Buffy's people? They went back and the blue one got Buffy? The pink one was right there as well. Five hours later and they are going away and Twilight has Buffy's people and is about to go away with them with the soldiers left and such.
It's interesting if someone Twilight bested the goddesses.
Sorry if this post seems really disjointed. I copied and pasted from IMDb and edited a little to make it make more sense.
BTW, we haven't seen Twilight fly or float around in a long time. When we first saw him he was floating around for no reason other than to do it. But in this last arc, he's on the ground and is actually walking around. Is that important?
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Post by CowboyGuy on Nov 7, 2009 22:46:33 GMT -5
Hi, long-time lurker, first time poster. I've given my reviews over on IMDb on the "Buffy" Board. Anyway, So, was Twilight using Oz as well? Things certainly worked out for him. The Slayers and Willow lost all their power. Their Plan B turned against everyone. And Twilight may have had men stationed behind them this whole time. Or at least had extra men to use to round up Buffy and Co. after the goddesses came and went. So, now Buffy's whole little army that she had with her and Giles, Xander, Willow, Dawn, Faith, etc. are all rounded up by Twilight's men and are being taken away. Other notes. Buffy is shown having affection for Xander. When she turns back to the group, she's touching his chin. So, very well she could be having feelings for Xander. Still, though, she may simply be glad that her friend is still alive. She's also shown having some feelings still for Riley. But her mission seems far more important than him, the possible information he has. Another clue that Twilight may be Spike (I've believed for a long time now that Twilight is Spike. Everything seems to fit). He refers to the soldiers as "mortals" who will die some day anyway. This leads to Twilight being immortal. Or not, but it's an interesting term he used for them. From the art and such, it seems the blue goddess gave Buffy power. Buffy's fall is lighted as green. And later we see Buffy can float in the air. This comic is interesting and makes me look forward to #31. How powerful is Buffy now? Twilight has all her people now. What will he do with them? It's also interesting that the general guy can yell at Twilight and question him without Twilight killing him. So, perhaps Twilight is getting the soldiers through him and therefore needs him? The tanks and such as well? It's also interesting and nice that Twilight kinda just rolls his eyes and shakes his head at Amy's and Warren's bickering. Though, I'd like to know if Amy actually said, "We can't trust anyone anymore. Tell me--" I assume it's Amy. It's also interesting that she seems to push Twilight with one hand and he wobbles. And does nothing to Amy for pushing him. Which, goes towards him regarding Amy and Warren as important to him. Which, they are. Amy has the magic and Warren can do the tech stuff. I'm somewhat doubtful, but it'd be interesting if Twilight's whole plan was to take away the others' power and give Buffy more. Given what we see later with the soldiers rounding up Buffy's people and the fact that Twilight hasn't killed Buffy yet, I don't think that one solider was actually going to gun Buffy down. Satsu simply thought he was. Maybe he was going rogue though, who knows. So, so far, it seems that Twilight doesn't want Buffy dead. Or Willow. Or maybe even Xander, Giles, and Faith. Yet he has no problem with all the Slayers being killed who aren't Buffy and Faith. Maybe Satsu. Maybe Kennedy. Also, assuming they all were captured, that'd include Oz, Bay, and Riley. Something I just realized: It was snowing. It wasn't before. Remember "Amends" (3010). Could the Powers That Be be giving Buffy this power? And for all the talk of Buffy's fall, she wasn't shivering or anything when she wakes up. She's in snow... Any just a thought. It also seems that the goddesses got to Buffy and Co. quickly because they weren't there and suddenly they are and the blue one picks up Buffy. Given that this was perhaps seconds after Buffy's speech and the goddesses weren't there when she ended it, it's curious. It's also curious that it seems the goddesses didn't kill any of them. The blue on lifted Buffy up and dropped her. But we see the rest being captured by the soldiers. And in the last frame where we see Buffy floating or flying or whatever, the goddesses are partly on fire. It's also interesting that it says "5 hours later" before we see Buffy again after the fall. So, did Twilight and Co. do something to make them partly on fire? And why didn't they go and kill Twilight's people and Buffy's people? They went back and the blue one got Buffy? The pink one was right there as well. Five hours later and they are going away and Twilight has Buffy's people and is about to go away with them with the soldiers left and such. It's interesting if someone Twilight bested the goddesses. Sorry if this post seems really disjointed. I copied and pasted from IMDb and edited a little to make it make more sense. BTW, we haven't seen Twilight fly or float around in a long time. When we first saw him he was floating around for no reason other than to do it. But in this last arc, he's on the ground and is actually walking around. Is that important? Great first post!! Yes many of your theories are things we've been speculating on as well. I'm not sure if Twilight is Spike...but the mystery really is intriguing!
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Post by wenxina on Nov 7, 2009 22:50:47 GMT -5
Just a few comments here and there regarding your post. One, the goddesses seem partly on fire because they're traditionally depicted as such. Something about burning away ignorance and lighting the path to enlightenment. As for Buffy's fall being lit in green... it may be that she was given power, or simply to mark her trajectory as she fell. She was wearing camo, which is typically greenish. Hence the green blur as she fell. As for it snowing, that was apparently a last minute addition. Because the covers are illustrated way ahead of time, and the artists not given much context, Adam Hughes' cover featured Buffy standing in the midst of a blizzard. This sounded like a cool idea, and was incorporated into the story. I think the explanation was, "Well, there are 2 angry goddesses running amok... surely the weather can go a little wonky".
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Post by richieshag89 on Nov 7, 2009 23:04:05 GMT -5
about the whole flying thing i just think that Buffy fell and everyone else probably assumes she is dead, she should have died from the fall but she needed power the most then. it was either die or be re-empowered. i dont think the green was magic it was just to show the fall and when she hit the ground it knocked her out and when she woke up she had the power she needed in order to survive a fall like that
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beeemkcl
Common Vampire
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Post by beeemkcl on Nov 7, 2009 23:12:37 GMT -5
That could be about the goddesses being on fire. I don't remember them being on fire before, but maybe I just forgot.
Still, they went away from the people and didn't kill any of them.
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It's of course possible that the green light or whatever was just depicting Buffy's fall. I was just commenting that it could be a sign that the goddess gave power to Buffy. Also, Buffy wasn't wearing camo besides her helmet. So, if it was supposed to be depicting her clothing, it'd be a mixture of sliver and tan.
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I read that about the cover and Joss deciding to change the story a little to fit the cover. But the "Amends" (3010) connection is worth noting if it turns out to be true.
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Have you guys talked at all on this forum about why Twilight hasn't been floating around or flying as of late? I find it interesting that he's actually standing and walking around.
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D'Hoffryn
Potential Slayer
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Post by D'Hoffryn on Nov 8, 2009 5:58:14 GMT -5
Have you guys talked at all on this forum about why Twilight hasn't been floating around or flying as of late? I find it interesting that he's actually standing and walking around. That's a very good point. I was wondering why he has waiting for amy to seek them out instead of flying over the mountains himself. Also why did he take prisioners? I thought with the invasion from the army he wanted them dead now.
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Post by whiteknight on Nov 8, 2009 7:59:39 GMT -5
Hello, first post here!
I felt the urgent need to join the forum as I had a sudden realisation about who Twilight is. I've read through some of the discussion (not all) of this issue and saw my theory has been mentioned already, but I'll outline my thoughts a bit more.
Twilight is.... Buffy! Here's why..
1) As of the end of this issue, their powers are the same. They both have super strength and flight and a whole host of other abilities. Twilight is likely to be a future version of Buffy.
2) The Riley-as-a-spy scene was very ambiguous, in the sense that we did not know if Twilight knew Riley had been working for Buffy or not. But if Twilight is future Buffy then he(she) did know this already and for whatever reason went along with it.
3) Foreshadowing. The whole Buffy-flying thing has been foreshadowed a lot throughout the season, with Buffy's awkwardness about flying with Willow and her fight and flight with Twilight! Even the first time we see Buffy this season has her flying through the air (albeit jumping out of a helicopter).
4) In a Beautiful Sunset (I think) Twilight stops Buffy doing the same move with the scythe that split Caleb in two. Twilight says something like "I know that move". At the time, I thought that meant Twilight was either Caleb, Angel or Spike (who all could have potentially witnessed it at the time) but who else was there to witness it... Buffy!
5) The first time we see Twilight, all we see are a pair of floating boots. Look what footwear Buffy is wearing the first time she floats in the air? Big stonking boots! More foreshadowing.
This is all I can come up with for the time being, but I think it's an interesting and plausable theory!
Edit:
6) The whole betrayal thing.. The biggest betrayal of all would be Buffy's betrayal of the scoobs and even of herself.
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Post by wenxina on Nov 8, 2009 10:04:53 GMT -5
There are a bunch of people who have arrived at the same conclusion as you. Speculation/theories/blind guesses about Twilight's identity run amok HERE. There are over 44 pages for you to go through, if you want. The latest development solidifies that theory for many, as you will see. Welcome to the forum. Feel free to contact me if you have any problems.
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beeemkcl
Common Vampire
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Post by beeemkcl on Nov 8, 2009 19:55:01 GMT -5
Yes, I did notice Buffy has on the same kind of boots that Twilight has.
But...
Twilight is taller than Buffy and broader than Buffy. Buffy does not have a square jaw of any kind. The simple physicality of Twilight bars Buffy from being Twilight.
Though, it does fit with Twilight knowing the things he does and the fact that he hasn't killed Buffy, Satsu, Willow, Xander, Giles, Dawn etc. It fits with his taking the Scoobies and Co. captive instead of offing all of them.
But, unless Buffy is somehow taller and broader and such -- or did magic to look like she does as Twilight, I can't see it being her.
I still think it's Spike. And the "mortal" comment leads to that. The physicality of Twilight also leads to Spike above Angel because Angel is taller and broader. And what Twilight knows and who he is using fits more with Spike than Angel. Like Angel never even met Warren and Amy.
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Anyway, I hope there is a good explanation for why whoever is Twilight is Twilight and why Twilight hasn't killed anyone "important" yet. Adam's excuse was that he was going to use Buffy to kill some demons so that he could use the parts. Glory's excuse was that Ben was preventing her. Caleb I assume didn't kill Buffy and Co. because the First Evil didn't want him to. Yet, or never, who knows. Twilight needs an excuse as well.
I'd also like to point out here Issue #11 (?) "A Beautiful Sunset". Twilight talked to Buffy about all these girls being Slayers is a bad thing and that pretty much she should be the only Slayer in the world. That that would help her instead of having all these other Slayers. Now, Twilight's killed a whole bunch of the Slayers and now a lot don't even have powers anymore. Yet Buffy is The One again. Did you guys catch this?
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Post by NightlySorrow on Nov 8, 2009 21:42:12 GMT -5
Much better than issue 29, and the art didn't bother me either. The big reveal was more of a who cares moment than a WTF moment to me, and I'm not sure why Allie thought people would be angry about it. It's really not that big of a deal and was overhyped big time. But I'd rather be underwhelmed a little than angry about a plot development. So overall the Retreat arc was good enough, but kind of messy and I felt a little disconnected at times.
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Post by VampSlayer on Nov 8, 2009 22:00:12 GMT -5
I really liked this issue, but have no idea why Buffy was flying... I hope that is all I should know. Or else I really missed something. Everyone is powerless, so why is she flying?! Why would she even be flying?!!
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gmo86
Innocent Bystander
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Post by gmo86 on Nov 9, 2009 3:04:22 GMT -5
Hi. I'm new in the forum as well. I just wanted to say that I loved this issue because I agree that it showed us a very new way of reading all the events in season 8, and I pick this particular line: When Riley says to Oz about buffy, saying: AMAZING WOMAN- And he responds: THEY ALL ARE. The reason is beacuse both of them left their women. So saying that it's a really nice way of making them participe and making their presence worty in the current story. Time will tell if any of them is really in the other band, and of course, will also change the complete meaning of that line. I also think that the fire in the goddesses, at the same time that buffy is flying, has a meaning. They would not draw it if it hasn't. Look the expresion of the pink one.
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Post by buffyfan21 on Nov 9, 2009 12:39:11 GMT -5
Ok, so in this issue we find out that Riley has been working as a double agent, reporting to Buffy with dirt on Twilight and the gang. I pretty much suspected this all along, but it's nice to have confirmation. I KNEW that Riley would never betray Buffy and the others! The Xander/Buffy/Dawn triangle just gets more and more confusing. Clearly Buffy and Xander had a moment and Dawn reacted with jealousy. Honestly, I kinda feel sorry for Dawn. It is obvious that Xander hasn't sorted out his feelings where Buffy is concerned, which is only going to lead to Dawn getting hurt in the long run. And I certainly hope that this whole thing doesn't turn into some competition between Buffy and Dawn, both vying for the affections of the same man. I fear things could get really ugly! Is big sister deliberately trying to make Dawn jealous? because if so, she's doing a great job! And could someone please explain the ending to me? I don't get it. At all. These are all the thoughts I can add until I go back and read the issue again.
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Post by wenxina on Nov 9, 2009 12:43:55 GMT -5
Satsu sees a sniper aiming at Buffy (presumably). She shoots the guy, while pushing Buffy out of the way. Buffy falls and lands in the hand of Remati. They share a moment, before Remati drops Buffy. Buffy wakes up, 5 hours later, miraculously unhurt from her high fall. Which would indicate that something is kinda weird, since she was pretty much non-Slayered when she fell. She stands up, closes her eyes, and the vertical lines indicate that she's rising. Then she opens her eyes, and realizes that she's hovering WAY above the landscape.
That work?
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Post by richieshag89 on Nov 9, 2009 14:41:18 GMT -5
Anyway, I hope there is a good explanation for why whoever is Twilight is Twilight and why Twilight hasn't killed anyone "important" yet. Adam's excuse was that he was going to use Buffy to kill some demons so that he could use the parts. Glory's excuse was that Ben was preventing her. Caleb I assume didn't kill Buffy and Co. because the First Evil didn't want him to. Yet, or never, who knows. Twilight needs an excuse as well. his? There was a soldier trying to shoot Buffy at the end of this issue.
It also bothered me how Buffy ran back in asking where Xander was and didnt even look for Dawn. This seems much more ooc for her than anything else, Dawn was always her highest priority
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