Does Willow rape Tara in season 6?

[Saturn 5]

We've reached Once More With Feeling on the Buffytube part of the forum so go there for a more detailed exploration of this point.

In All the Way Tara is upset with Willow and doesn't want to snuggle. So Willow uses magic to alter her mind and make her not be mad at her any more. And in OMWF they then have sex together whilst Tara is still 'under your spell'. Do we count this as rape?

I have to say yes, Willow has done the magical equivalent of slipping a roofie into Tara's drink and it's only under that influence that she wants to have sex with her. So yeah, I consider this rape. Rape hugely common in Buffy/Angel (not just Spike/Buffy in the bathroom but CC knocked up three times by different demons) and in fanfic but you it's a Joss show when the two most blatant examples are committed by women, Willow on Tara and Faith-as-Buffy on Riley.

[Skytteflickan88]

I can't completely disagree with you. I really want to, but I can't.

In case Tara had still had her memory intact, she would probably not have slept with Willow, unless tehy had solved the fight. So even tough it's not as bad as holding someone down, taking what you want, Tara must feel that adds insult to injury.

Of course, that Willow didn't seem to get how bad it was to remove Tara's memory in the first place, that she just thought it was a easy way to make them happy again, makes me look at Willow as if she's empathically handicapped, not sadistic. It's not the same kind of selfishness the ordinary rapist has.

Of course, I think having your girlfriend removing a part of you, since your personality is the sum of our past and memories, might be up there with a starnger you don't care about using your body. I can honestly not say what's worse, it's emotional and mental damage vs physical and mental damage, and entering someone's mind with force vs entering someone's body with force.

So even tough it's not like a magical roofie, since for all we know the spell just effected her memory (oh God, I hope that was just it), it's definitly bad.

Finding out that someone you recently made love with has been mind-violating you must be worse than knowing that someone you made love with two weeks ago did a spell on you one week ago, if you know what I mean. Even the snuggling was bad.

I hope that Tara just felt betrayed, and not like she's been literally raped, like I probably would.

[henzINNIT]

It was worse than rape.

[wenxina]

Rape isn't just a sex thing... it's a power thing as well. Willow violated Tara by removing her will to feel what she felt. She had no right to "fix" things the way she did, since Tara's concerns were legitimate. So yeah... rape of sorts. Once again, our white hats forgot their OxyClean...

[willowsummers]

It's difficult when it's someone you're in a relationship with or have been having sex with. You feel comfortable coming on to them and they feel comfortable having sex with you, so things are not so cut and dried. If anyone has seen History of Violence, they know what I mean, or if they've had a boyfriend that they were very close to who still tried to have things to do with them after they'd broken up with them... It is wrong and is a violation of Tara's mind but things get so jumbled when you're in a relationship. I'm sure Tara herself wouldn't have even been able to make the distinction that easily. It's possible even if she had remembered, Willow could have physically forced herself on her and she might would have liked it, like someone else said before. That is also what makes this so cruel. Tara trusts Willow and Willow betrays that trust.

[Jaz ♀♀]

It was definitely one of the cruelest things Willow has ever done. Not only do they trust each other but they know that each other trusts each other...if that makes sense. And so Willow knows Tara trust her completely and for Willow to still follow through with that spell and completely destroy the trust they built. For Tara, i think she was just more hurt by the betrayal of trust that Willow broke than the sex they had during the spell and i don't think she viewed that as rape (nor do I). I also think Tara forgave her faster for the sex they had, then the forgetting spell that was put on her.

[CourtneyDax]

Okay here's the definition of rape (as defined by dictionary.com):

1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3. statutory rape.
4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5. Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.

–verb (used with object)
6. to force to have sexual intercourse.
7. to plunder (a place); despoil.
8. to seize, take, or carry off by force.

Under that definition, if you consider Magic to be a physical weapon of force, then yes, Willow raped Tara sexually. Personally, I always thought it was more of a mind rape then a sexual rape.

[Skytteflickan88]

I think definition 8 works for this situation. Tara's mind was broken into, and something was carried off.

Still, rape isn't a good word for what happened, since I'm not sure if Willow did it because she wanted to have power of Tara, which is usually a huge part of sexual rape, she just did it because she wanted things to be easy.

(Which reminds me of people slipping drugs into people's drinks because they're too lazy to charm someone, but it's a different way of wanting something the easy way. Yet it reminds me too much of Willow's attitude about the situation.)

I guess mind-violation would be a better term than rape. But it's splitting hairs, really.

Off topic a bit;
Willow did something horrible, out of selfishness and ignorance, which made Tara feel used, which Willow should have forseen considering that she knows that Tara grew up being controlled by people she (probably) loved,and a few months earlier, a Hell God took something from Tara's mind.

I really want to blame the magic, that Willow was blinded by her addiction and/or facination with magic to be empathic, but it's a bad excuse. I really wish that we got to see Willow express regret over the violation, not just that she let magic take control over her life. She has been shown before to want to take control with the help of magic, and I think that was before the addiction (the Let My Will Be Done Spell, the anti-attraction spell in Lover's walk, almost punishing Oz when he cheated).

I still wonder if she's a control freak who feels like she has the right to "fix things".

On a side note, I don't think Willow trying to take away Buffy's memories of Heaven was a bad decision. Possibly made by the wrong reasons, but it's undenieable that Buffy trying to kill herself in Once More With Feeling is something that needed to be dealt with.

Did they guys ever talk about that? It seems to me that they should have made her talk to someone, even if she would have to leave out the dying and supernatural part.

We should at least see Dawn reacting to her almost losing her sister again.

There was a lot the gang never saw in season 6, the suicidal part of Buffy being one of them. I think it could be blamed on that Buffy was so closed off. I mean they didn't even notice Buffy having sex with Spike and feeling like hell about it.

But that's life. You don't always see what you need to see. Still, a "Oh my God you're suicidal"-moment would have been nice. Forget me if there is one, I think the first scene in Tabula Rasa might have delt with that. Season 6 is my least favorite Buffy season, so I don't watch it a lot.

[Saturn 5]

I'd say it's closer to definition 2, sexual intercourse that is forced upon someone. Think of Warren and Katrina, she consented to have sex with him but only after he'd messed with her mind. Is Willow so different?

[Skytteflickan88]

Nov 28, 2009 5:02:57 GMT -5 Saturn 5 said:

I'd say it's closer to definition 2, sexual intercourse that is forced upon someone. Think of Warren and Katrina, she consented to have sex with him but only after he'd messed with her mind. Is Willow so different?

God yes, Willow is different.

Willow removed a part of Tara's memory so they could both be as happy as a few hours ago, while Warren manipulated Katrina's mind, made her little more than a vegetable, to be able to get revenge on her and have sex.

Both their intentions and spells are different. What Willow did was wrong, but it was in no way as damaging as Warren's spell.

[wenxina]

If the act of forced sexual intercourse is the only definition of rape, then the whole rape imagery in the creation of the first Slayer is nullified. Tara had her memory altered against her will. Something was taken from her. Her own autonomy, her right to stay mad. She had Willow's will forced upon her. Whether or not the sex was forced or not isn't important. By the time the sex came about, Tara's mind had already been violated. Just because you've been with someone for a long time, and are comfortable with a person doesn't blur the lines of consensual sexual intercourse. If one party is unwilling, and is either coerced forcefully or through manipulation into performing the act, it is still a violation. Another word we could throw into the mix is "abuse". It is utterly disgusting when people tell the victim that it isn't rape... it just puts the victim in the wrong, because they are made to feel that they shouldn't feel that way. That somehow being with a person means that the person is somehow entitled to something.
Spin it anyway you want, Willow's act of violation was rape. Rape in a loving partnership is betrayal, but let's not kid ourselves by trying to soften the blow here. The four letter word may be fouler to the taste, since it was performed by a much loved character, but S6 was all about dirtying up the white hats. Willow abused magic, and abused Tara by violating her mind, effectively betraying their trust. All this, adds up to rape.

[alycat7]

wow, never thought of it that way. If what Willow did was indeed rape, then I'd say it was not her intention.

[wenxina]

The legal definition of rape for most places would actually make it impossible for a woman to commit such an act, since it's usually defined as "forced penile penetration" (some places are even more specific, stating that it has to be forced penetration of the vagina by the penis). So yeah, if you want to be technical about it, sure, one can substitute "rape" with "abuse".
However, as it is used in general everyday usage, "rape" is more than adequate. The word "rape" stems from the Latin verb that means "to seize", and has no sexual connotation anyway.
And I'd add that the endgame for the rapist is not usually just sex. If it were, a prostitute would suffice. It's not about the sex. It's about subjecting another person to one's will. To control, to dominate, to watch the struggle.

[Jaz ♀♀]

Willow didn't do it to 'watch the struggle' nor was Tara in the position of trying to get out of the struggle like what EWR mentioned that 'it didn't leave her trapped inside her head watching the outside.' Which is why i think 'abuse' or 'violating' (Tara's mind) is more fitting of a term of what Willow did to Tara.

[wenxina]

No, but what Willow did was force her will over Tara's. She deemed what she wanted more important. I'm not saying that Willow is evil, or that her intention (at least what she thought it was) was to rape Tara. At this point, Willow was already beginning to depend wholly on magic for even the simplest things. She was an addict, and justified her actions by saying that she just didn't want to fight anymore. She tried fixing the symptom, rather than the problem itself (her own addiction).
In the process she violated/raped Tara's mind. Rape may carry a more specific connotation, but it is legitimate. She didn't do it to watch Tara struggle; she did it because she found Tara's mindstate inconvenient, and wanted things to go back to the way they used to be. "Violation" is fine and dandy, but IMO, "rape" works just fine under these circumstances too.
Tara didn't struggle because it wasn't a bodily violation; Willow tampered with her mind. That's what makes it even worse.

[gumgnome]

I was gonna stay out of this one, but what the hell. I'm with wenxina and saturn 5 here. Just because the two actors are in an established sexual relationship doesn't make Willow's actions of a radically different nature to Warren's. Both manipulated the feelings of their partners in such a way that the partners consented to sex when they otherwise wouldn't have. There are differences in intentions - wenxina's post above summarises Willow's well, while Warren clearly wants power over his target, but the resulting outcome is the same.

[Saturn 5]

You could argue that what Warren does to Katrina is that he just wants to restore their relationship to what it was before, just as Willow does to Tara, he's just less subtle about it. Now Willow doesn't completely take over Tara's mind but she does alter it, meaning that Tara can not have her free will because Willow has denied her the memories which she relies upon to make decisions. And as part of that they have sex?

I think she does indeed invoke the 'great roofie spirit' even if her intentions are good, so were Warrens. It's different to RJ and his brother, they never knew that it was their jacket that made them such girl magnets, Xander when he realises it's his love spell that's affecting the girls refuses to have sex with Buffy and Willow. You could argue that it's different to Jonathon too because the spell he does is too improve himself rather than affect other people.

[Skytteflickan88]

This will be a bit off topic but:

Nov 29, 2009 8:06:07 GMT -5 Saturn 5 said:

You could argue that it's different to Jonathon too because the spell he does is too improve himself rather than affect other people.

That's not true. He took away Buffy's sense of self, her belief in herself as a fighter and person. She even let Spike touch her after he mocked her, when normally, he wouldn't let him finish the first insult. And everyone's else had been hexed to love Jonathan. He took away the cool from everyone else and added to himself, made people think that what they had done, he had done, but so much better. That's why I can't watch that episode. I keep thinking of the twins he sleeps with, who's will he's tampered with. They might not have struggeled, but the fact is, without that spell, they wouldn't have been with him. And now they might need therapy to deal with the incest-problem.

I understand that Jonathan's deep in denial of how far he's gone, and that he's actually a good guy, and that he doesn't wake up from that denial until after his third rape-victim, Katrina, dies. Until then, he lived in a fog where he could make the world around him do things to make him feel better, he wanted to be "evil" and do dangerous things, yet expected no one to get hurt.

Rant over.

[tkts]

This is a very interesting, complicated question, and I see two different ways it could be taken.

1. Does the implied sex between Willow and Tara in OMWF constitute physical rape?

I lean toward "no" on this one, although I can definitely see some valid arguments for "yes." On the one hand, were it not for Willow making her forget their argument, Tara would probably not have been inclined to have sex with Willow at that moment. On the other hand, I think intent does matter. Willow didn't use the memory spell with the intent of tricking Tara into bed, and some time did elapse between the two occurrences. There's also no evidence that Tara feels the sex was coerced, even after she finds out about the spell.

2. Does Willow's use of the forgetting spell in the first place constitute mental rape?

Yes, and Tara's response makes it clear that she views it this way.

[wenxina]

Nov 29, 2009 19:15:45 GMT -5 tkts said:

Willow didn't use the memory spell with the intent of tricking Tara into bed, and some time did elapse between the two occurrences. There's also no evidence that Tara feels the sex was coerced, even after she finds out about the spell.

By some time, you mean something like less than 30 seconds? The scene pretty much ends with the two of them snuggling and giggling. Tara probably wasn't as concerned about the sex bit as she was with the fact that Willow tampered with her mind. Especially since it's a sensitive area, considering that Tara was brain-sucked by Glory in S5... a trauma that she's not fully over yet, as referenced in the reprise of "I'm Under Your Spell/Standing".