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Post by Wyndam on Jul 1, 2009 21:26:25 GMT -5
What an excellent issue! It is just so, so great to see Gunn and Illyria stepping into the spot light again, and Brian really delivered the goods this time. This really was an epilogue in the truest sense of the word, as it really tidied up Gunn and Illyria's lingering issues and provided an excellent jumping point for their new mini-series.
Gunn's inner turmoil during his coma was a definite highlight. "Did I hurt Lorne?" He went through so much, did so many horrible things, I am not surprised he can't keep it all straight. Add that to the fact that he actually misses being evil, something everyone despised. He thinks he deserves it, and rightly so. The parallels between Gunn and Illyria were excellent and really showed what an awesome team they will hopefully make in the coming months.
Non's role in this issue was fantastic, and it was nice to see her end up at Mosaic at the end. I wasn't surprised that she wanted to reclaim her Hell-A status, and wanted to use Gunn to get that status back. Bringing the T-Rex back was a stroke of genius, as he once again stole the scene with his hilarious dialogue. Plus his name is Kenny. So awesome.
After 5 months of mediocre Angel it is great to see the title return with so much to chew on. Every panel had something interesting, important and the entire issue came together so well. Just really well crafted. Yay for Brian and Franco!
So thrilled we have Brian back for 5 more issues and the Annual. Plus Franco and Mooney! I'm a happy Angel camper again.
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The Night Lord
Wise-cracking Sidekick
The Long Kiss Goodnight
There can be no love. Only pain exists[Mo0:1]
Posts: 2,654
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Post by The Night Lord on Jul 2, 2009 1:11:08 GMT -5
Sounds really awesome, I can't wait to get mine. Though I'll have to wait about 2-3 weeks to get it, which is kinda crappy
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 3, 2009 13:14:47 GMT -5
Woop I just ordered the virgin edition so I can have the full cover, which is beautiful. Can't wait to read this once I get back from holiday hehe.
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Erebus
Innocent Bystander
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 4
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Post by Erebus on Jul 3, 2009 17:46:58 GMT -5
Great issue.
In the back, it said that the first Drusilla issue comes out in July--did it get pushed up?
If so, when does it come out?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jul 3, 2009 17:48:15 GMT -5
Yessir, it comes out July 22nd, just in time for Comic-Con.
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jul 3, 2009 17:57:51 GMT -5
This was great, it actually restored my interest in the Angel comic series (to a point). I loved the continuity between Asylum and Spike: AtF, Brian's done a great job of creating his own little corner of the Buffyverse. Even though the canonicity is vague, the whole thing feels so organic and connected that I don't really care. Roll on the Spike ongoing! ;D
One thing though... I'm not sure how all the upcoming titles relate to each other. The Dru story is part of the ongoing Angel title, but the Gunn/Illyria story is a spin-off? What's the point of that, if anything it should be the other way around. What's the difference between Angel: Still Human and Angel: Only Human? Are any of the books actually following Angel the character anymore? It seems like the whole concept of Angel as an ongoing series has become totally meaningless, and they're all just random spin offs at this point.
(The above comments probably sound like they contradict each other. To clarify: Brian's books have great in-universe continuity, the Angel franchise as a whole is a confusing, badly organised mess.)
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Post by Emmie on Jul 3, 2009 18:09:45 GMT -5
One thing though... I'm not sure how all the upcoming titles relate to each other. The Dru story is part of the ongoing Angel title, but the Gunn/Illyria story is a spin-off? What's the point of that, if anything it should be the other way around. What's the difference between Angel: Still Human and Angel: Only Human? Are any of the books actually following Angel the character anymore? It seems like the whole concept of Angel as an ongoing series has become totally meaningless, and they're all just random spin offs at this point. (The above comments probably sound like they contradict each other. To clarify: Brian's books have great in-universe continuity, the Angel franchise as a whole is a confusing, badly organised mess.) Yeah, I've got to admit that the ANGEL umbrella seems to be stretching very thin. And I'm very disappointed that the main man himself - the umbrella name for all these spinoffs and the recognizable cache - is getting shortchanged a bit. Angel: Aftermath - the main man himself gets the worst writing and art out of the bunch. Why yes, I'm still retaining bitterness from Aftermath. I'm recovering in the aftermath of Aftermath. Sigh. But yes, I'm still confused about having so many ANGEL spinoffs under his name that have nothing to do with Angel the character. I'm hopeful for whatever announcement is being made regarding the future writer and artist for the ANGEL title...to be clear, for Angel's story. That being said, I really enjoyed #23. God, I love Franco's art. There's this one panel with Non where she's standing the full-length of the page and she just looks amazing. It was great to have Lynch back writing the characters too. His grasp on Whedonverse wordplay, his own Lynchspin of it, was so very welcome.
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 3, 2009 18:16:10 GMT -5
Well the Gunn/Illyria spin-off is pretty large to be a part of the main title, five issues as opposed to Drusilla's two. Plus Dru's issues are related to After the Fall and Brian's past work on the series, whereas Only Human has a different creative team. Angel: Still Human was most likely a typo, at the end of #23. The series is called Angel: Only Human, unless they are changing it. Personally, I am really enjoying that we are getting some focus on other characters right now. I am sure we will get back to Angel and the team will come together again in #28 (or even before, as we don't know what #26, #27 or the Annual are about), but I am glad everyone isn't just being forced back together for now. Gunn and Illyria are getting a great opportunity to explore what they have gone through, whereas their story wouldn't have as much breathing room if they were already back on Team Angel. I liken these issues to The Zeppo, The Replacement, The Killer In Me, Selfless, Lineage etc., even "No Future For You" and the upcoming Willow one-shot, where the title character (Buffy or Angel) takes a step back and one of the other supporting characters get a chance to do their thing. Since we are dealing with comics now, the wait to get back to Angel or Buffy is a little longer than a week or even a few minutes as you change DVD discs. I don't find it confusing or badly organized, it's just the way the story is being told right now. Star Wars: Legacy does this a lot where they will focus on the main character for an arc and then focus on something/someone else for a few issues in order to tell a more complete story.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Jul 3, 2009 18:16:51 GMT -5
One thing though... I'm not sure how all the upcoming titles relate to each other. The Dru story is part of the ongoing Angel title, but the Gunn/Illyria story is a spin-off? What's the point of that, if anything it should be the other way around. What's the difference between Angel: Still Human and Angel: Only Human? Are any of the books actually following Angel the character anymore? It seems like the whole concept of Angel as an ongoing series has become totally meaningless, and they're all just random spin offs at this point. (The above comments probably sound like they contradict each other. To clarify: Brian's books have great in-universe continuity, the Angel franchise as a whole is a confusing, badly organised mess.) Yeah, I've got to admit that the ANGEL umbrella seems to be stretching very thin. And I'm very disappointed that the main man himself - the umbrella name for all these spinoffs and the recognizable cache - is getting shortchanged a bit. Angel: Aftermath - the main man himself gets the worst writing and art out of the bunch. Why yes, I'm still retaining bitterness from Aftermath. I'm recovering in the aftermath of Aftermath. Sigh. But yes, I'm still confused about having so many ANGEL spinoffs under his name that have nothing to do with Angel the character. I'm hopeful for whatever announcement is being made regarding the future writer and artist for the ANGEL title...to be clear, for Angel's story. That being said, I really enjoyed #23. God, I love Franco's art. There's this one panel with Non where she's standing the full-length of the page and she just looks amazing. It was great to have Lynch back writing the characters too. His grasp on Whedonverse wordplay, his own Lynchspin of it, was so very welcome. Emmie: I totally agree but have faith because comicon is supposed to bring the focus back onto the main man and the main story. Paul: your point about the vague continuity is really interesting becasue I was just talking to some people last night about where in the continuity asylum would go ( shadow puppets..another day) and we seriously agreed that the most specific choice would have to be between S5 destiny and S5 a hole in the world....any thoughts?
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jul 3, 2009 18:45:42 GMT -5
Yessir, Wyn. It's sorta like the BUFFY title did. When they got to the #20 mark, they did a few one-shots that focus on supporting charactes. For BUFFY, #21 (Harmony), #22 (Kennedy and Satsu), #24 (Faith and Giles). For ANGEL, #23 (Gunn and Illyria), #24&25 (Drusilla). The only spin-off that focuses on supporting characters is "Only Human," and that shouldn't be hard to distinguish, as it has its own numbering. Sort of like how SPIKE: AFTER THE FALL was. That was published during ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL, but wasn't hard to follow when it happened. What I think we're suffering from here is, as Emmie said, the aftermath of Aftermath. It's not the one-shots, but the fact that we had a terribly unfocused and bad story BEFORE the one-shots that kinda threw us off.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 3, 2009 18:55:47 GMT -5
My best guess would be that Asylum takes place in the days between "Smile Time" and "A Hole in the World".
Asylum refers to the puppets from "Smile Time", and Spike has knowledge of them being demons; so it must be after that episode. [That was a bit of a poor choice on Lynch's part in my opinion, as it would fit better around "Damage" time when Spike was going full-on lone ranger, and there's not a lot of time between "Smile Time" and "Shells" where Spike declares himself part of the group.]
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Jul 3, 2009 19:02:33 GMT -5
Well the Gunn/Illyria spin-off is pretty large to be a part of the main title, five issues as opposed to Drusilla's two. Plus Dru's issues are related to After the Fall and Brian's past work on the series, whereas Only Human has a different creative team. Angel: Still Human was most likely a typo, at the end of #23. The series is called Angel: Only Human, unless they are changing it. Personally, I am really enjoying that we are getting some focus on other characters right now. I am sure we will get back to Angel and the team will come together again in #28 (or even before, as we don't know what #26, #27 or the Annual are about), but I am glad everyone isn't just being forced back together for now. Gunn and Illyria are getting a great opportunity to explore what they have gone through, whereas their story wouldn't have as much breathing room if they were already back on Team Angel. I liken these issues to The Zeppo, The Replacement, The Killer In Me, Selfless, Lineage etc., even "No Future For You" and the upcoming Willow one-shot, where the title character (Buffy or Angel) takes a step back and one of the other supporting characters get a chance to do their thing. Since we are dealing with comics now, the wait to get back to Angel or Buffy is a little longer than a week or even a few minutes as you change DVD discs. I don't find it confusing or badly organized, it's just the way the story is being told right now. Star Wars: Legacy does this a lot where they will focus on the main character for an arc and then focus on something/someone else for a few issues in order to tell a more complete story. First off, thanks for answering my question, Wyn. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with the stories themselves, it's the way they're being released. If we're getting a Dru spin-off, it should be called Drusilla: After the Fall #1, not Angel #24. I don't agree with the show analogy because these don't feel like "centric" episodes of the show that focus on one character. It feels more like an anthology, like Angel: Spotlight On or something. Even "Predators and Prey", for it's sins, had an overall, ongoing storyline. With the Angel series, we just don't have that direction. We have a series of individual character pieces cobbled together very loosely. Some are spin-offs, some fall under the ongoing numbering, what's the difference, right? So long as IDW make a buck. *cynical* We've discussed this many times before though, so I guess it just comes down to taste. Paul: your point about the vague continuity is really interesting becasue I was just talking to some people last night about where in the continuity asylum would go ( shadow puppets..another day) and we seriously agreed that the most specific choice would have to be between S5 destiny and S5 a hole in the world....any thoughts? Having not read either Asylum and Shadow Puppets (as much as I want to), I can't really say. I think originally it was set in IDW's "limbo" continuity alongside Old Friends and Auld Lang Syne, so trying to fit it into season five is like forcing a square peg into a round hole. I don't think it can be before "A Hole in the World" because isn't Illyria in Shadow Puppets? And doesn't SP take place right after Asylum? "Somewhere in season five" is good enough for me, tbh. What I think we're suffering from here is, as Emmie said, the aftermath of Aftermath. It's not the one-shots, but the fact that we had a terribly unfocused and bad story BEFORE the one-shots that kinda threw us off. Respectfully disagree. Aftermath was poor, but you can't blame it for everything. From what I read, it was a simple, linear follow-up to AtF. Whereas these other stories aren't in chronological order, some fall under the ongoing numbering while others don't, and there's no "flagship" story featuring Angel himself to lead the way. It's confusing.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Jul 3, 2009 19:04:07 GMT -5
My best guess would be that Asylum takes place in the days between "Smile Time" and "A Hole in the World". I agree. Nah, I think putting stuff between SMILE TIME and A HOLE IN THE WORLD is ideal. Fred went from first kiss to being madly in love with Wesley really quickly during that time, and giving those episodes room to breathe is a great choice. I'm perfectly willing to put two or three months (with Asylum happening during said month) between those episodes.
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neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
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Post by neowhobaz on Jul 3, 2009 19:45:33 GMT -5
Glad that we can agree o nthat pat , people seem to make it so hard to place asylum in the continuity but with Angel 23 and after the falls mention of it make it easier to except.
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Post by shocksmile on Jul 4, 2009 15:24:45 GMT -5
Brian, as you can see you restored a lotta people´s faith in the angel title. Thank you so much for doing this. This issue was simply brilliant. Urru´s work was amazing as always, the story flowed really well, tied a lotta loose ends together and made the future seem a little less fatal, even though Gunn´s story is about as bleak as it can get. And best of all: it made perfect sense! You, sir, are one massively talented mothertyper and I for one am glad to have you back!
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 4, 2009 17:04:13 GMT -5
Having not read either Asylum and Shadow Puppets (as much as I want to), I can't really say. I think originally it was set in IDW's "limbo" continuity alongside Old Friends and Auld Lang Syne, so trying to fit it into season five is like forcing a square peg into a round hole. I don't think it can be before "A Hole in the World" because isn't Illyria in Shadow Puppets? And doesn't SP take place right after Asylum? "Somewhere in season five" is good enough for me, tbh. Shadow Puppets takes place 4 months after Asylum.
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richie
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:1]
Posts: 170
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Post by richie on Jul 11, 2009 17:14:40 GMT -5
so, i never read asylum, or shadow puppts or anyother comic. just the after the fall/aftermath. but i'm ok... i guess...
i loved this issue, but i'm kinda afraid... i think it would make perfect sense to show illirya/gunn herab. but im felling a little lost. just like a lot of you guys. The after the fall arc was good and gave one kind of closure, about the end of the series... but now? im felling like this nothing going on. just some random stuff. o dont know what to waiting for. or if i should be waiting for something... this illirya/gunn arc looks promisory, but i dont know. kinda afraid. dint fell lika angel. angel was all about redemption, and illyria/gunn arc its all about that, but the main angel title? i dont know... i'll gonna read it... ut im not crazy like after the fall arc. what its bad. cause. you know its angel. i hope that at comic com they give me some clues.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jul 12, 2009 7:58:00 GMT -5
Got back from my holiday to have this, 2 issues of Buffy season 8 and Shadow Puppets on my floor. That was pretty awesome.
I like this issue a lot. Kinda wish I had read the last few issues of ATF first (lol), but I still felt the closure of events past and the new direction. I'm not sure how neccessary it is for Gunn and Illyria to go off on their own, but for now I like the open ending and the bond between them. They're great characters and neither have been explored extensively. The little touches make me happiest, like Illyria adopting Fred's traits and the continuity with previous stories. It feels very rich with knowledge and love of the 'verse. I only wish Joss was showing as much care at the moment, to be frank.
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Hallow Thorn
Bad Ass Wicca
Oh and You're Welcome
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,306
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jul 12, 2009 22:11:29 GMT -5
This sounds to good to wait, I might just pick it up when I pick up the new hardcover at the end of the week.... also will this be in the same hardcover as the Dru 2 part?
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Post by Wyndam on Jul 12, 2009 23:17:34 GMT -5
This sounds to good to wait, I might just pick it up when I pick up the new hardcover at the end of the week.... also will this be in the same hardcover as the Dru 2 part? Yep, the 6th HC will most likely have issues #23-27, or Brian's final issues. Could even have the Annual in it too, if IDW is feeling zany.
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