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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 30, 2010 16:08:04 GMT -5
My suspicion is that at this point, destroying the Seed itself would be irrelevant because Willow now has its power.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 30, 2010 16:06:18 GMT -5
Any Bringers who weren't in the Hellmouth or Sunnydale when Spike destroyed it are probably still around, and the First Evil is certainly still around.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 30, 2010 8:35:15 GMT -5
Connor/Jasdelia was easily the creepiest. Xander/Cordy for its sheer hopelessness. Parker/Buffy for the "I want to punch this guy in the face" factor. (Riley's best moment on the show, IMO).
The Wesley/Fred/Gunn triangle got kind of tiresome in Angel season 4, too. That was a bad season for ships... Connor/Cordy, W/F/G, Wes/Lilah... ick.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 30, 2010 8:29:13 GMT -5
I still have a suspicion Xander may do something shortly that's motivated by his repressed feelings of grief (and guilt) over the deaths of Anya and Renee and current events with Dawn.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 29, 2010 13:37:21 GMT -5
I just hope that when/if the Nuffy movie comes out, the discussion forum for it will be kept strictly separate from the one(s) for Joss's Buffy. Can you elaborate? Do yo think that it should not be discussed here when it comes out? If the admins want to create a sub-forum to talk about it, that's their decision. I'll stay well away from it. I just don't want to hear about this movie all the time when I'm trying to discuss the real Buffy, and constantly have newbies butting in and talking about it as if it was canon.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 29, 2010 12:43:50 GMT -5
I just hope that when/if the Nuffy movie comes out, the discussion forum for it will be kept strictly separate from the one(s) for Joss's Buffy.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 29, 2010 12:40:22 GMT -5
The Magic Box was pretty much destroyed in the rather violent Buffy/Giles vs. Dark Willow showdown. The last time we saw it, Anya was picking up the debris of her previous livelihood in "Same Time Same Place". And bitching at Willow about it, just before making sexy magic with her. Seemed like the building should have been salvageable, though. At least one ceiling beam came down and there was a hole in the ceiling where Dark Willow shot her heat-seeking fireball... but Xander should have been able to fix the place up in a jiffy.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 29, 2010 12:00:15 GMT -5
It occurred to me this morning to check my karma points. Apparently I only lost one karma point through this acrimonious exchange. I'm impressed. This is a pretty polite forum, thanks for your courtesy. I never take karma points from people. It's the Internet equivalent of letting the air out of someone's tires and then running away before they see you.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 29, 2010 8:32:24 GMT -5
I thought the 1992 movie was your typical low-budget 2 1/2 star movie. I remember watching it, thinking Kristy Swanson was pretty hot, and Vamp Pee Wee Herman's death scene was kind of funny, and then pretty much putting it out of my mind. I was late coming into watching the TV series because I assumed it would just be like that movie, and that got a resounding "meh" from me.
Looking back and comparing the movie to the original script, I can say that just about everything that was good in the movie (apart from Kristy's legs) was due to the Joss parts that got left in.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 27, 2010 15:02:10 GMT -5
Who are some other actresses that you feel would fit into the role? And if we're lucky we'll be getting Willow and Xander, feel free to cast those too! Willow and Xander definitely won't be in the movie. They were created for the TV series, which the people making this movie have no rights to. They can only use characters from the 1992 movie, and new characters. They can't even use Sunnydale.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 27, 2010 13:03:18 GMT -5
Just a heads up about this issue... I just got back from the comic shop, and they told me that new comics next week (including Buffy #39) will be out on THURSDAY, not Wednesday as they usually are. Apparently the distributor took last Friday as a holiday, so they're a day behind on their shipping. So, we have to wait an extra day.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 27, 2010 13:01:18 GMT -5
What's wrong with the new BSG? I really liked it... Exactly. And if everybody likes the Nuffy movie, that will become the new Buffy, and replace Joss's version as far as all new fans are concerned.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 27, 2010 9:17:16 GMT -5
It sounds like the consensus opinion in the fandom is "I really hate the idea of a Jossless reboot, and I will be first in line to see it the day it opens." Which, as far as Warner Bros. and the Kuzuis are concerned, is WIN all the way. So this will get made, and there will be a new Buffy in town... way glitzier and fancier and big-budget than the old one. And people like me will be taking care of our now out-of-print Buffy TV DVD's, and crying in our beers along with the fans of the original "Battlestar Galactica."
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 26, 2010 23:03:44 GMT -5
All I have to do to win this argument is to get you to say something like, "On this point (doesn't matter what it is), I think Joss is wrong, and I don't accept his version." The instant you say that, you are asserting that you own the Buffyverse too. Have you ever said that? Joss (and those writers working under him) have made many decisions over the history of the Buffyverse that I haven't liked. I didn't like the Buffy/Spike situation in season 6, except for some moments. I didn't like the killing of Tara, although I later came to understand its necessity in the story. I didn't much care for the very existence of Connor on Angel, and especially the treatment of Cordelia in general during that storyline. And there have been several things during season 8 that made me think Joss very eligible for an atomic wedgie. But at no point have I ever said that Joss was wrong, or that I didn't accept his decision in canon. Because it's his story to tell, and part of the enjoyment is that he's not always going to give me the exact story I want. That's not what stories are about. They're about the storyteller using his or her skill and craft to create a whole range of emotions in me... from enjoyment to anger. Playing with the story outside of canon is fine... through fanfic, or licensed stories with no input from Joss. As long as it's done with his consent in the case of for-profit material, and kept separate from his canon... there's no problem. But in the case of Nuffy, we have people with no connection to Joss, spending tens of millions of dollars of studio money to try and use his own creation, against his will, to create a new commercial franchise to compete with his. That's something very, very different. As far as I know, you haven't. But you did say, in an earlier post on this thread, that you wouldn't accept some things about S8 except for the fact that Joss authorized them. That's very, very close. The fact that I wouldn't accept them from anyone but Joss illustrates the strength of his story, not the weakness. I accept stuff from him that bothers me, because it's his story, and I love his story... even when it doesn't give me exactly what I thought I wanted. Honestly... if I went back through season 8 and marked up every point where Joss did something I wished at the time he hadn't, and changed it to suit me... I would be left with a predictable, melodramatic, feel-good powderpuff of a story, and it would suck. It wouldn't have any stylistic or thematic connection to the kind of storytelling I've gotten addicted to through 7+ seasons of Buffy and 5+ seasons of Angel, and all the rest. When I feel the need for one of those feel-good detours, I write a fanfic. I get a nice little story that I and others enjoy reading. And then I turn back to the real story.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 26, 2010 14:49:55 GMT -5
To play devil's advocate, I ask this: Why did Joss ever give up the rights in the first place if he loves Buffy so much? How could he ever allow anyone else to gain control of his property? My guess is he was young, broke, and looking for his big break. He wrote a movie script for the Kuzuis, and they owned all the rights to it from the start. After the movie came out (having been revised beyond much recognition of the original script), Joss asked to buy the TV rights to the Buffy property. Thinking those rights would be worthless, they sold them, with the condition that they get a producer credit (and, I guess, a percentage of the money) from any TV series based on Buffy. They kept the theatrical movie rights. Then Joss sold his TV rights to Fox in order to get BtVS made.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 26, 2010 9:38:07 GMT -5
midwesternwatcher... clearly we have vastly different opinions on the ethics of this situation. Like, matter/antimatter different. It would be kind of pointless to keep going over the same arguments over and over and over. Unless and until a miracle occurs and Joss decides to endorse and get involved in this off-brand parody of his creation, my feelings on it aren't going to change. I doubt yours will either. I'm going to let my previous posts (and my sig) speak for my position on this matter, though I'll certainly chime in if anyone has any new points to make. I'm determined not to let this depressing news ruin my holidays. Hopefully next Wednesday's issue of season 8 won't ruin them, either.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 25, 2010 23:40:43 GMT -5
I would prefer that if the movie does get made (and that's a big if), they make it as different from the TV series as possible. I don't want the two getting confused in people's minds.
I don't really care about them doing justice to Buffy, because this isn't Buffy.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 25, 2010 21:10:29 GMT -5
The monotonous theme I hear on this thread is, "keep it the same, the same, the characters the same, the writers the same, the actors the same, no growth, no development, nothing new, let's stay in our comfortable rut." That's the real reason you guys want Joss to be involved. You want him to be a watchdog to make sure nothing new happens. Is that what you see Joss as? A hack dedicated to keeping Buffy's story a predictable formula? And do you really see season 8 as an example of "nothing new happening?" Come on. Fans are up in arms because there's too much new happening. Fan sites are full of people who claim they don't even recognize Buffy or these characters or this story anymore. It's about as far from stagnant "same old same old" as you can get. And honestly, there's no way I would accept some of these storytelling decisions from anyone but Joss. I believe a creator should have creative ownership over his characters and story, unless and until he decides to surrender it. Most of the fandom agrees with that, it seems. I don't believe Joss should have to see his creation caught up in some kind of weird socialist utopia where his work is the common property of all mankind, to be tinkered with and trashed however they wish. I also don't think a story has to go on forever, passing from hand to hand, in order to be a great story. I'm content to see Buffy's story end when Joss decides it should. I'll miss it, but I'll have a masterpiece to look at for the rest of my life. His character, his story, his decision on what he wants to do with her. Not a formula for death, but a formula for a coherent story guided by its creator from its beginning to its end. I shouldn't be able to make my own series of Harry Potter movies, appropriating the character and idea for my own purposes, to compete with the ones authorized by J.K. Rowling, even if I have a slip of paper giving me the technical legal right to do so. And Warner Bros. shouldn't be able to create their own "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" franchise in the hopes of eclipsing and replacing that of the person who put his heart and soul and genius into making Buffy worthy of WB's notice in the first place.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 25, 2010 20:38:42 GMT -5
Here's my final prediction before the issue comes out on Wednesday:
Faith, acting under instructions from Giles, and possibly helped by Xander, fights Buffy and uses the Scythe to break the Seed... all four believe they are doing the right thing.
However, magic continues to operate because Willow had absorbed the power of the Seed into herself, as Aluwyn taught her. Using this power, Willow is able to reverse the Apocalypse and send all the demon hordes back where they came from, as well as cutting Twilight off from this world permanently (and freeing a very unhappy Angel from being possessed by it). But Willow can't contain the power of the Seed... it burns away her soul and replaces it.
Buffy is forced to push Willow through the last portal out of our reality as it closes, in a scene very much like what she did to Angel at the end of season 2.
Magic is banished from our world. The Slayers keep their powers for the rest of their lives, but no new ones are called. Each demon and vampire native to this world lives on until it is destroyed, but no new vampires can be created and no new demons can enter.
Decades from now, Willow finds her way back to our world, still soulless and partly insane. When she does the vampires and demons start to be allowed back in, and a new Slayer (Mel) is called.
Buffy arrives in the Frayverse, and FDW manipulates her into killing her. When everything is in place, FDW gives herself a sexual climax ("So close...") and contacts Aluwyn, asking her to give 21st Century Willow the information that leads to Buffy being brought to the Frayverse in the first place. In so doing she deceives Aluwyn, who did not want Willow to sacrifice herself. Willow then forces Buffy to kill her with the Scythe, destroying the Seed once and for all.
With that, magic is permanently banished from our world. Mel and Erin didn't see any difference there on the rooftop, because Mel will continue to be a Slayer until she dies... but she will be the last of the line. The "lurks" and demons will continue until Mel and others destroy them, at which time they will be gone forever.
But the fact that it was Buffy, the Chosen One, who destroyed the Seed, may provide some kind of cosmic loophole that allows her to get Willow back somehow (although their appointment in the Frayverse will still have to be kept). On to season 9.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Nov 25, 2010 9:28:15 GMT -5
Well, it's Thanksgiving, so I'd like to thank Joss, and all the others who worked on his vision, for the many years of enjoyment he's given me. I'm hoping for another 13 at least, no matter how many big middle fingers the Hollywood Greed Machine throws at him. Here's to the real Buffy... accept no cheap counterfeits.
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