|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 30, 2008 23:03:54 GMT -5
There's an important question of scale we can't answer about the Potentials -- how many were there before the First's campaign started?
We know that there are nearly two thousand Slayers *now*... but how effective the First was varies greatly if there there were only 3,000 potentials to start with, or 30,000, or 150,000 in the world.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 30, 2008 22:34:17 GMT -5
Apparently the "change we need" is a second Carter administration
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 30, 2008 1:10:47 GMT -5
There's even a very handy expression on that point -- the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think most of the blog entry is absurd, but the Slayer spell is a pretty strong argument for a feminist shortcoming in the Buffyverse.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 29, 2008 22:18:30 GMT -5
Since you're still at it, Brian, I'll keep asking And, I'll ask two, just cuz I feel like it 1. If Nick Runge, Franco, Stephen Mooney, and everyone else who has worked on "After the Fall" won the Powerball and told you and your mere comic project to take a hike, what are the top three dream artists you'd like to see pencil "After the Fall"? 2. Did you have any ideas for "After the Fall" that Joss just plain nixed when you and he started forming the plot? Care to share?
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 28, 2008 17:28:28 GMT -5
Gwen: you're kinda there, kinda sorta! One of those theories is warm. I am are smart, I when to kollej. Not... especially, no. Hey, you asked I'll endure as long as it doesn't suck, though, and you're pretty good at the not sucking Round 3 for me! What do you think is the biggest creative advantage to writing an "Angel" comic in the context of Hell-A over if you were telling a story in the "normal" LA?
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 28, 2008 17:00:07 GMT -5
Good answer, Brian. I am really pretty thrown by that Gwen answer then... seems, then, that either she never had any genuine feeling or loyalty to Connor to betray, or that she is convinced that she's helping him by helping Gunn. Not a question, just thinkin' Here's another "fresh from the message board trenches" kind of question, Brian -- without getting into what will happen, since we know you can't tell us... do you think Angel is and would be just as compelling a hero if he stayed human than if he turned back into a vampire? How does it strike you the idea that people think he *has* to be supernatural to still command the same audience interest long term?
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 28, 2008 16:33:57 GMT -5
Hey Brian, glad to know you liked "The Dark Knight" -- awesome flick.
Brian, the Slayer spell was cast about a year before "After the Fall" began for these characters, and we know some Slayers were aware of Angel's ties to W&H from the Season 5 episode "Damage". You have Slayers in "After the Fall".
That said, you have the opportunity to discuss and even settle a ridiculously long-standing argument -- do you think that what Andrew told Angel in "Damage" about Buffy and the whole crew not trusting him because of W&H is true? Is it a topic you think you'll be raising with your Hell-A Slayers?
(if that's boring and over-specific, treat it as a question about whether or not the Slayers are mostly window-dressing or if you have any big plans for them in general)
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 13, 2008 12:17:09 GMT -5
Revisiting the possibility of re-vamping Angel, I wonder about the stab wound he took. I think deconstructing the way in which someone can be sired in the Buffyverse would be a bad idea -- it would take the mythic quality out of it, reduce vampirism to the sort of "infection" you see in (IMO lesser) mythologies like "Blade", "Twilight", etc.
But, Angel's broadsword was coated in the blood of one of Gunn's henchvamps (or Gunn himself, still not clear on that). And then Gunn has all those wounds reopen, which ostensibly would drain Angel of his blood. So, it would have happened out of order, and without any biting involved, but I could see this being a narrative "in" to re-vamping him.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 13, 2008 10:30:14 GMT -5
Wow. Apart from Chapter 5, this is my favorite issue so far.
So many things I was expecting from the confrontation between Angel and Gunn, I missed some of the little details -- like the fact that Angel didn't even know going in that it *was* a confrontation. It's a small and in some ways irrelevant detail, but I like that Angel and everyone else instantly assumed Gunn was a rescue operation.
Further, Angel continues to impress me as a reenergized hero. Much of what I found heroic about Angel vanished in Season 5 and ultimately landed them all in Hell-A. Now, as a human, he's been getting it back and then some. I love that he doesn't even just want to arbitrarily kill Gunn. Hell, you can almost hear him thinking "we get out of here and Willow can curse him as long as we don't have to kill him." And most of all, I love how much braver Angel has to be to do what he does without the advantages of being a vampire. I also liked seeing reminders that Angel is actually pretty smart -- like how he decides to try to play Gunn. In the televised seasons, Angel's intellect became a little bit of a punchline at times -- he wasn't the smooth-operating liar and improv artist he was in, for example, 1.04 "I Fall To Pieces" or 2.04 "Untouched" in using fake personas. Here, we see that skill come back as he tries to con Gunn about the visions.
Angel's injuries, while pretty horrifying, are somewhat encouraging to me. I'm a staunch opponent of re-vamping Angel, and the mere fact that Gunn decides not to do it gives me hope that it won't happen -- something else will happen. Maybe Glowy-Just-Let-It-Go-Baby-Cordy with Healing Energy Action is lurking out of frame to heal human Angel. But to re-vamp him now is to either have the main villain just say "actually, on second thought I will turn you", or to have Spike do it. I already saw Josef re-vamp Mick on "Moonlight", so I'm in no hurry to see that story again.
Now to turn to Gunn -- simply awesome. This might seem like a bold statement, but in just a few appearances and this issue's long exposition, Brian Lynch has managed to make Gunn a more riveting and compelling villain than Joss himself was able to make Angelus. Yes, I know "plotted by Joss Whedon", that's not my point. I mean Gunn in "Angel: After the Fall" written by Lynch > Angelus in "Innocence", "Becoming, Part I", and "Becoming, Part II" written by Joss. That is just how impressed I am with how Gunn has developed. He has this sort of evil-but-tragic energy that I think we've only seen anything like with Darla in Season 2 of "Angel". But this is much grander in scale because while Darla was basically evil and loving it again, Gunn really does think he can be the hero. He kills Slayers, he kills women he rescues, but he disconnects that completely from what he does in pursuit of his grand plan. And what a cool idea to give him the visions (if that's what they are)! It has echoes of Harth in "Fray", but is much more A) useful as powers go and B) poignant, since it's something that connects to Angel through both Cordy and Doyle.
General observations -- I loved all the "B" plot stuff at the Hyperion. I love Gwonnor, they are so great. I love Nina still being into Angel and totally love Angel/Nina. I love that everybody implicitly knows they shouldn't tell Spike about Angel being human.
Only complaint, though. The last page is completely incomprehensible to me. Brian, help me out -- is Gwen reacting to something we're not going to see or understand until Chapter 12, or am I just missing something in the visual information that explains what's wrong with her? I mean, I see lightning (possibly hitting the dragon?), some energy happening around her hands, she's crying, Connor's worried about her... did I miss it, or has whatever it is not happened yet? I usually don't have that problem parsing out the action. Maybe it's just me.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 10, 2008 23:43:01 GMT -5
I'm thricewise.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 10, 2008 14:49:48 GMT -5
Dhoffryn, I don't think Emmie or I meant to suggest that Proserpexa and Vasuki were one and the same, just that Willow's attempt to destroy the world might have drawn Vasuki's attention.
We know from Kumiko that Willow has been watched for some time, and it stands to reason that if Vasuki's pupil has been watching, so has Vasuki herself. "Grave" is just an example of a time when Willow might have drawn attention to herself.
One could argue that something was tracking Willow as far back as "Becoming, Part II" -- certainly, something jumped in and helped her finish the spell to restore Angel. No way to say or really speculate that that might have been Vasuki, but at some point prior to Season 8, so at least "Chosen" or further back, Vasuki has had her eye on Willow.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 10, 2008 0:21:54 GMT -5
I was going to jump in as well to point out Vasuki could have zapped Kennedy before Kennedy actually knew what was going on.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 9, 2008 23:23:08 GMT -5
I'll go you one better, Emmie... what if it was Vasuki who actually facilitated the Slayer spell? Acted through Willow, like something did in "Becoming, Part II"? That could explain the "oh... my... goddess" reaction. It might also explain just why she would seek out such a powerful being in the first place. It *also* might be able to explain why... - Kumiko, another Vasuki student, was carrying out the reversal.
- Why Vasuki showed Willow a vision of the scythe.
- Why Willow has been so secretive about her sources, and what they are telling her.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 9, 2008 17:00:06 GMT -5
Faith's development is not only not "off", "No Future For You" is basically the best story yet told for the character. If that arc as a regression for Faith, she would have, either cynically or enthusiastically, killed Genevieve when she had her alone in 8.07. Instead, it's pretty obvious by the end of that issue that Faith has no intention of completing this mission as scripted intentionally. And, in point of fact, when Genevieve dies it is an accident, something Faith is clearly broken up over. She had developed so much since the crucial changes in her in the "This Year's Girl" - "Who Are You?" - "Five By Five" - "Sanctuary" arc that not only is she no longer able to just kill someone, she has developed that sense of duty to try to help or redeem people that she learned particularly from Angel (but could have learned from Buffy in later seasons). Other points of clear growth -- - She basically rejects the Mayor's influence and worthiness as a father figure, something she still wasn't ready to do in "Touched".
- She is not visibly horribly contemptuous of relationships anymore, despite it not having worked out with Robin.
- She really does understand that her life isn't Buffy's fault, or she wouldn't have let her up.
Really, we've never seen Faith in a more awesome place, which is why I really can't wait for her to return. Willow just can't seem to win. Half the time she's too powerful, and, apparently, if she's not too powerful, she's a victim. For me, it's hard to think of Willow as retreading *anything* since we've never seen Willow like this much at all. She is emotionally distant from everybody but Kennedy, really. She acts like her relationship with Buffy is more of a duty (even as FDW, a duty of sorts), and she hasn't actually had a single one on one conversation with Xander at all that we've seen, which is especially alarming given that, to borrow from Willow herself, those two are (usually) the two who are the two. So whether or not she's in peril or an uber-PWN witch, she's showing us nothing but new. Just because she has veiny face in the 23rd century doesn't make it a Season 6 retread. Xander, Dawn, and Giles are all in decidedly new places (and in the case of Xander and Dawn, damn overdue, both of them getting to shine heroically in 8.17). The only person who really *is* retreading anything old is Buffy herself, with the leap-off-the-page parallels to Season 6 Spike from her I-need-to-be-happy tryst with Satsu. But has there been a season yet that didn't retread at least one plot line from a previous season? It's rhetorical, the answer is no. As to my theory about Fray, I don't see Buffy killing her. I just can't figure how in two issues, Buffy could get to that place where she'd be willing to, let alone for Joss to give a phlebotenous reason why she *should* -- Melaka is fighting the good fight. My prediction very much relies on Harth and/or Willow doing the killing.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 9, 2008 9:17:24 GMT -5
She's talking about the scene where Buffy is shown betrayed. She's asking where they are before they see it. Thanks Scott for the good answers. Thanks Emmie for keeping the flow
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 8, 2008 23:38:50 GMT -5
I'll play.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 8, 2008 20:56:10 GMT -5
The last couple posts here had me thinking about what implications there are to FDW. How evil she might be or not and how that will affect the story. I realized that I don't think FDW will *have* any implications beyond "Time of Your Life", other than as a cautionary tale, definitely to Buffy, probably to Willow. I realize that she is probably completely self-contained to this arc, not someone that's going to be acting again in the future. I think that "Time of Your Life" is a single-story nightmare vision, like the ST:TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" was. The Buffy episode "The Wish" was a little like this as well. That is to say, Buffy is going to see some truly horrible things, as will the audience, but they will be there to teach something and may ultimately be averted. More than anything, I was thinking of the cover of 8.19 -- a scene I suspect is either the instant before or after Buffy is returned to the present. She's either helpless and about to be wiped out by FDW or she's panicked and confused and afraid of Present Willow. And I think I know why. It's also why Joss can make it "okay" to re-write Fray's future out of existence. She's going to die. Harth and/or Willow is going to kill Melaka Fray and Buffy's going to watch. Not only a girl she clearly likes, but also the only remaining symbol of her legacy is going to be destroyed in front of her. That's my prediction. Maybe it's even the lesson that Willow wants to teach Buffy. Certainly Melaka's fate is on her mind, or she wouldn't ask Harth about his thoughts on it. Fray's future is already pretty hopeless. She is but one Slayer, and it's clear that Harth (perhaps with Willow's help, even in the original series) has spread vampirism far behind any hope Mel has of reigning it in. But Joss knows fans have an emotional attachment to that time and place, so in one tragic move he can render that moot and leave us with nothing to even guess at about where Season 8 and Season 9 are going.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 8, 2008 17:20:39 GMT -5
That is a funny story. You should have signed them all "Stan Lee".
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 8, 2008 17:13:11 GMT -5
Oh I think they can do better than me. Your modesty is both admirable and unconvincing Okay -- a similar question was asked of Scott Allie, because it reflects on how much longer it takes to unfold a comic story than a televised one. Has fan response affected the actual story? Even if you can't say what, have you and/or Joss changed your mind, gone farther or less far with a subplot based on fan reaction? (I think you probably have seen more heat on "that can't happen!" type complaints than Season 8 has, because of the very impactful Fred/Illyria storylines and Angel being -- at least at the moment -- human)
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Aug 8, 2008 17:03:53 GMT -5
Brian, there's been some discussion of whether or not Joss is going to be available to write the concluding arc of Buffy Season 8. Obviously, "After the Fall"-proper will be concluded by then. Will you, Mr. Lynch, serve if called?
|
|