|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 27, 2008 11:14:09 GMT -5
I think worldwide exposure is a brilliant idea if the upshot is that the human world will rise up and consider vampire and Slayer alike their enemy -- because that's the threat that Voll spelled out in 8.04 and the most sure way for Twilight to realize his agenda.
The hippie dippies marching for vampire rights against evil Slayers thing would be a high, high risk for becoming campy in a way that makes the original Buffy movie look like "Schindler's List", though.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 25, 2008 23:57:11 GMT -5
I'm also worried about the possibility of dodgy writing in the set-up here. This already happened once with the kiss reveal when nobody remembered to even *unambiguously* establish that Satsu was in the room to give a kiss, when we'd last seen her outside.
The reason I bring this up is because in 8.09, the report by Lt. Molter included the fact that Giles and Faith were out of the game. Unless one of them called *back* to the BHC to let someone know that, *and* it circulated around for a mole to hear, the only people that *could* have given Molter than information are Faith or Giles, which really means just Giles, since Faith was nowhere near any of this until Giles brought her in.
So, in a sense, we already have an argument that if it's not Giles, they've already denied us a fair opportunity to figure it out... again. Granted, I'd prefer to be even a little cheated on the mystery than for it to actually *be* Giles or one of the other main characters.
That's another factor... the only thing that we know for *fact* that the mole has done is make that report to Molter. That's enough for them to be a villain, since the contents of that report prove that the mole was aware of the possibility of Buffy being killed. But we don't know for sure that the mole has had anything to do with the vampire attack in 8.12, Twilight's attack in 8.11, or the missile attack. It's just an available and reasonable inference.
Which leads me to another point I was hammering out with Emmie -- we don't know that the mole is even still alive. Maybe killed in the missile attack? How about killed *before* the missile attack. It could have been Renee. She was highly placed in the chain of communication, always in the command center. She had Xander's ear, obviously, and spent more time with the higher-ups than with other Slayers. Her death may have just been a random event that Twilight didn't anticipate. I know many of us back around 8.09 theorized her on the basis that perhaps she is a relation to Lt. Molter and was trapped in the same kind of Faustian deal that Roden was -- her survival (or survival for daughter/niece, offered to Molter) in exchange for information.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 25, 2008 23:21:57 GMT -5
So she not only knew that she was going to be able to seduce Buffy into bed that night, but also knew exactly what time it was going to happen, and somehow got word to the vampires hours, maybe days ahead of time, to let them know when to make their move? Well, since I assume most people don't plan their romantic trysts on an hourly basis, realistically she'd have only needed to know the night. I'm not a spy myself or in the whole special ops game, but I tend to figure that you don't pass up *any* plausible advantage. Their completely coinciding agendas, but no direct evidence. Just enough to have healthy suspicion. A fact I've cunningly concealed by the fact that I've said openly and repeatedly I hope she's the mole/traitor -- fine detective work, el diablo, kudos. My stance hasn't changed, it's infinitely better to have Satsu, the lovable new character, be a traitor and enemy than any Scooby. I honestly think there's something deeply wrong with someone who'd *rather* a Scooby betray Buffy in some permanent and substantial way than the relative nobody newbie. Why don't you actually spell out a better case for someone else, then, instead of just sniping? By transferring to Tokyo, she's so far out of sight and mind that her cover never comes into question.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 25, 2008 20:04:51 GMT -5
I don't see any evidence that Buffy is enforcing any type of strict discipline over her group. On the contrary--I like that she jokes around with them, makes comments about how great their hair looks. It's a big improvement over Speech-Giving-Buffy of S7, who did seem to be looking for that sort of respect at times, wanting the potentials to get in line and stay there. How militaristically Buffy behaves isn't really the question or the answer to establishing the heirarchical structure in her organization. The fact that she no longer throws shovels at a roomful of scared people *or* pouts at her Watcher or friends to get her way is incidental -- she still gives orders, and expects those orders to be carried out. Others still wait to receive those orders and feel obliged to act on them. In 8.04, nobody chimed in to discuss their feelings or debate when Buffy announced Satsu was coming. It was settled. Nor did Satsu question Buffy or Xander's instructions during that mission. In 8.08, 8.09, Buffy didn't ask if anyone could get Giles on the phone if they had a sec. She ordered it. When she was done with him, she ordered that he be given whatever he wanted. She didn't offer anyone, Willow for instance, the opportunity to ask what was going on, or to give a counterargument -- she gave her order and left the room knowing it would be carried out. It *is* a heirarchical structure, not a council of equals, not a democracy. It's an army, whether they salute or not. I was all over it, I thought it created exactly the same type of problems and was annoyed that they were doing it with both the top personnel in the group. What we see evidence of is Buffy and Xander *knowing* what they are now, but not wanting to accept it. Willow has the best feel for the real situation when she explains to Satsu about Buffy's status, being a general in an army in which they (Willow includes herself, surprisingly) are merely soldiers. [/quote] Well, it wouldn't be the first time Twilight acted at least a little capriciously -- he says in as many words he hadn't planned on fighting Buffy and beat her up mainly on impulse to shut up her whining. But, that said, perhaps once Satsu was out of the BHC/BPR that was the go ahead to press his attack. He *may* have meant for Buffy to be killed, we can't assume he didn't. He did sound very much like a man prepared to kill her the next time he felt inclined in 8.11. There's a solid case to be made for Satsu as the mole/traitor, and I for one am hoping it's the case for the simple reason that it's infinitely preferable to Willow or Dawn or Xander. Satsu had Buffy "out of position" when the vampires came in 8.12. One could even argue that she engaged Buffy in the talk that made her vulnerable to Twilight in 8.11. And then she requests a transfer shortly before a big ass missile destroys the castle.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 24, 2008 13:29:51 GMT -5
Back at the start of Season 8, in an interview with the Buffy magazine, Joss said that he wasn't sure he could use Vi in the comic because people would misread it and say "Six? Who's six?"
His solution appears to have been to have her going by her full name, Violet.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 17, 2008 13:25:45 GMT -5
I meant more "repulsed" insofar as if it's not *really* Fred, but Illyria just sort of having an episode fed by her Fred memories. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the metaphysics. Fredlyria-physics?
Also, Brian, I took the use of Fredlyria in Chapter 10 as a shout-out, since it seemed everybody but me was going with "Frillyria".
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 17, 2008 13:12:16 GMT -5
Joss took a pretty solid cheap shot at "Charmed" on a DVD commentary, so this was pretty mild. I don't like the show anyway, I LOL'd out loud! at it, actually.
But still better was the idea that Spike actually would reflect on the amount of shit that Angel and Buffy have to put up with as he feels his way toward his leadership role.
The humor was all spot on, here. I still, however, came over a bit unfulfilled, just because... it *is* a flashback story. No matter what happens, we know Spike is going to be who he is and where he is when the story catches back up to Angel's visit in Chapter 2 of his book. It's Star Wars prequelitis, that way. It's still cool, but it's just sort of okay, let's see the big lightsaber fight.
Best truly new insight is Spike and Illyria -- I didn't catch him saying so, but other comments he's made (even back in Season 5) make me think he's actually a little repulsed by her being Fred, and that it's not just because Illyria can defend herself. I would hope he's *not* repulsed, but that's actually because I still hold some hope that, unlike Illyria's Season 5 finger-sparking and impersonation, that actually *is* Fred somehow. But I'm not sure that's where Brian is going with her story.
I'm not sure how I feel about Jerry/Jeremy. He has an interesting little role, like that guy in Shakespeare who's always around to comment on the hero's behavior. But at the same time, I assume his full name is Jeremy C. Fodder, if you take my meaning, so I can't get too invested in his own storyline.
I think I'll enjoy it more as I see how Spider and Spike's new nemesisisisis come into the story.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 15, 2008 12:06:04 GMT -5
Scott, I *really* appreciate you taking on that question "off the clock" and not just giving some pat answer to it.
Mikey, I actually (just spitballin') would take this to refer to a romantic storyline for either Xander or Buffy that is or isn't happening, probably with each other. Just by volume, there hasn't been a 'shippy question that's come up and been argued from both sides more often than them as a couple, and by extension, either of them individually (because it includes all of Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike, as well as Jeanty's 'hook-up' tease about Xander and all the discussion we have about Xander with perhaps Dawn as well).
Willow's love life, even if she and Kennedy do break-up, as I suspect they'll have to for at least a while when Kennedy learns of Vasuki, is just not quite as riveting to the fans as a subject of speculation at this point.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 15, 2008 10:35:20 GMT -5
Scott, if you're online, I want to ask you a sort of meta-spoiler question that I was actually going to call in with to the show if I'd caught the number --
"What is the one plot subject that you see brought up by fans that you most wish you *could* spoil, even if just to say that it's not going to happen? What would you most like to be able to give fans an up-or-down answer on that they'll just have to wait and see about?"
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 14, 2008 15:44:23 GMT -5
If Buffy has such a concern, she's misplaced it badly.
I think Faith would have mentioned it if Xander was too fragile for Slayer "service", rather than all but saying "you should give him a try!" in "Bad Girls". And Buffy didn't injure Parker.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 14, 2008 14:11:07 GMT -5
I figured she was meaning more for the season arc in general than for "Time of Your Life".
I think one could start a romantic arc between them during this arc if one is planned. It just wouldn't be *physical* at this point, obviously, except for perhaps first kiss or something. My own hunch is that if Joss is going in that direction, we'll get the obligatory scene of Dawn giving Xander a ride somewhere and them dealing with awkward hand placement. That is such an innately sexual/sensual bit of comedy that you don't bother with it if you aren't trying to establish that sort of tension between them. It's arguable that the "frilly" in 8.10 was a first step in that.
My first preference is obviously Buffy/Xander, but Xander/Dawn is not a bad 'shipper consolation prize if we never get it. But I still think Joss has to address what's up with Buffy having kissy/sexy dreams about him regardless. It would be sort of annoying to tweak the Buffy/Xander folk like that as *nothing* but a first issue, we-don't-have-the-lay-of-the-land-in-Season-8, disorienting "gotcha!" moment. I can't think of a 'ship in the Buffyverse that deserves that kind of abuse less than Buffy/Xander -- it's like kicking a puppy.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 14, 2008 13:43:22 GMT -5
That's some solid analysis, Emmie. I'm not sure I'd agree insofar as you've tied Dawn's putative growth arc to romance/sexuality, but I get why it would make sense if Kenny did it.
I don't think I'd like the Xander-as-Dawn's-hookup thing. While Jeanty did say at a convention that Xander will have some kind of fling coming up, if he and Dawn slept together and it *wasn't* the start of something serious, both Buffy/Xander and Xander/Dawn as romantic storylines would take a real hit to their likelihood.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 14, 2008 8:32:34 GMT -5
Mmm I don't know how I feel about that. As long as they keep Willow gay, then whatever... Scott Allie said that there would be plot developments that would be more controversial with fans than Buffy/Satsu, but wouldn't be controversial to ABC.com (meaning, it wouldn't be newsworthy to the non-fan community). Willow/Oz certainly seems to fit that description, so I'd consider it to be in play. I'm fine with Willow/Oz -- if her sexuality is all fluid and discoverable to get her *with* Tara, logic demands it still be fluid and discoverable. And they were very much in love. But Willow/Oz would just be a side-bar. Willow and the sanctity of her gay-ness really aren't why it's good or bad that Oz be around, not even in the discussion. Oz is a great character and, with apologies to Tara and Anya, the character that was most missed in his absence on the televised seasons. The only real question is why wait so long? On a geekish note, I hope that he has mastered his control enough that he can drop in and out of wolf mode on demand, too.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 12, 2008 16:32:39 GMT -5
Slayer489, I don't think Kumiko was "obviously" unconscious. That's an assumption. Which is pretty much all we can do regarding Kumiko's fate right now. I'm assuming that considering the thematic importance she represents in relation to Willow's character development, we'll be seeing Kumiko again. Angelmonster, you're assuming that Buffy had the presence of mind to specifically order for Kumiko to be taken out. I actually think she was too distracted by comforting Xander to even care where Kumiko was at that point. Exactly. We can't reasonably presume on Buffy making hyper-intricate orders when we saw her hand off command to Leah and Satsu to comfort Xander. Nobody ever gave a specific order to go after Kumiko. And, what's more... so what if they had? Kumiko can fly, the Slayers can't. Nor can they do much about her if they caught up to her -- Kumiko could undoubtedly fend off dozens of Slayers, like Willow could.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 11, 2008 12:12:10 GMT -5
I lost sympathy for Gunn when he killed a Slayer. Now I think Kennedy's got the right phrase -- kill 'em like a chicken.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 11, 2008 12:06:07 GMT -5
I think that the integrity of the canon of the Buffyverse is part of what separates it from pretty much any other popular fiction.
Personally, I have three categories of canon.
The first is official canon -- things that Joss has officially and explicitly given the stamp of canon status. This includes A) Buffy: Origin, B) the 254 televised episodes, C) Dark Horse's Season 8 and IDW's "Angel: After the Fall" and "Spike: After the Fall".
In the second category are quasi-canonical works -- these are works that are not *explicitly* made canon in interviews or press statements, but are compatible with canon without any substantial modification. These include both of Dark Horse's "Tales of..." series, "Spike: Asylum", "Spike: Shadow Puppets", "Viva Las Buffy", and "Slayer, Interrupted", amongst others. Works in the second category are schroedinger's cat, basically -- they can, however (and have) be adopted into the canon in whole or in part based on events in the canon work. Worth noting that the mere fact that Joss or Jane or Doug or somebody wrote it doesn't on its own grant canon status -- many Buffy writers admit that they've written fanfic, after all.
The third category for me is non-canon -- these are works that, either because Joss flat out said so, or more commonly, because they are contradicted by the canon, can not be part of the actual ongoing Buffyverse story. Buffy novels fit here. I would consider "Go Ask Malice" quasi-canonical for its quality alone, but Joss said the novels aren't, ergo, non-canon.
As a side-note, I think that fanfic can be divided up in two ways -- canon-compatible and AU. AU is what would, by definition, fall into the "non-canon" category -- it contradicts the canon on its face. These are the "set after Season 5, but Buffy is still alive and Spike has his chip out" stories. Canon-compatible fic is like the 2nd category -- Joss could canonize any part of it at any time.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 11, 2008 11:49:34 GMT -5
Scott, MySpace page still isn't loading. Read the preview, love the pencils, love the voice. Was thrown by the gore. Solomon's look reminds me of "V" a little, with the coat, the hat, the blades. Not the same period, but still. Can you kind of bullet point the premise for us? "Period monster hunter" is all I really have a handle on so far. But it's good. You and Joss should give you a Buffy one-shot
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 10, 2008 9:31:00 GMT -5
Awesome crossover fic = Buffy getting her hands on Mjolnir. They did that with Wonder Woman in "Marvel vs. DC".
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 10, 2008 2:22:48 GMT -5
I was completely certain it was Drusilla until today, actually. But with the 8.19 reveal of DarkWillow, there's really no reason to overspeculate our way into there being a *second* former enemy lurking in the story. It's as inexplicable as when people were theorizing that Drusilla had turned into a centaur that looked like Dawn.
My suspicious of Riley is based on what I freely admit is speculation as to his motives -- but it's very easy speculaton to make. And motive is the *only* fact that doesn't fit so far.
|
|
|
Post by KingofCretins on Jul 10, 2008 1:08:09 GMT -5
Thanks for quick answers as always, Scott.
About the arcs over the last 15 issues of the season... I'm not a doctor, but doesn't that work out to at least a couple five-issue arcs instead of the normal four issue ones?
You don't have to say what they are, of course, but is the plot tightened down so far as to say that all the remaining issues have working titles?
And I can't help but ask -- I personally consider this less of a "spoiler" than a "disambiguation", a la confirming Centaur Dawn on 8.18 -- should we take Ms. Chen's 8.19 cover as clarifying Mr. Jeanty's 8.17 cover? I'll take a "can't say" at face value, it's not a trap question.
I'm really totally ignoring that one question per post thing, aren't I?
EDIT: I totally ignored the no more questions part, too. Thanks for the knowledge, Scott!
EDIT: The Solomon Kane page is not loading right now.
|
|