Spike Biting Robin Wood

[Inappropriate Starches]

So I rewatched "Lies My Parents Told Me" the other day and for the first time it really bugged me that Spike bites Robin near the end. Spike walks around like he doesn't care about the things he does but we know deep down he does care and it comes out in certain moments, but this one I'm having difficulty understanding.

So far all I can come up with that makes me feel even a little better is maybe him wanting to once again hide how guilty he felt. Like maybe he felt so bad about killing Nikki and having to face her son that he just wanted to prove once and for all like he didn't care (even though he did)?

I was just wondering what you all thought? Is this a good analysis, is there something I'm missing, or is Spike just a dillhole? lol Let me know.

[winterdreamer]

Mmmmm, well, I'd uh..'bite' him too.

Seriously though? I dont think Spike did feel guilty overmuch about Nikki....or the other slayer in China either. Killing a slayer is a little different than eating women in alleys; its a fairly evenly matched scrap~it could well have gone differently in either case. As for the biting .....I figure it was just a 'this is what I could have done' powerplay, a bit of dominance.....either that or he just wanted a nummy snack.
Yeah, I'm kinda siding with Spike on this one.....I think the slayers are fair game. (I mean, they massacre about anything demonic~they are kinda asking for it)

[Inappropriate Starches]

Well yes, but it sort of falls down to who's good and whos evil. I understand what he says when he tells him that "She was a slayer, I was a vampire, that's how the game is played", but vampires kill people all the time because its their nature, 'fair' fight or not. If he feels guilty about everyone else, why not her? and more importantly even if he doesn't feel guilty why bite robin? Especially since initially he was intending to kill him and simply changed his mind.

[winterdreamer]

I think he explained why ...."I let him live on account of that I killed his Mum". Hence why he didnt kill him. I still think he bit him to show his he COULD have finished him off, if he wanted too.

[hitnrun017]

I always see so much love for this episode, and I just don't understand why. It's one of the most pathetic of the series, and for the 42 minute runtime, it makes me hate Buffy, Spike and Giles (two of which are among my Top 5 favorite characters). There's just so many things wrong with it, Spike biting Robin one of them. Ooo that soul did you a lot of favors buddy.

[Inappropriate Starches]

Yes I know why he let him live, what I still don't buy is him biting him in the first place.

I do agree that all three of those people act like douches in the episode for different reasons, but I understand their motives and can even sympathise. I still love Spike but this just seems a little out of character for me, albeit now way in left field but sort of foul ball you know?

[El Diablo Robotico]

Spike's actions in S7, and LMPTM specifically, are really no different than Angel's after he got his soul back. Go back and look at "Five By Five" and "Darla"--Angel was still attacking women and dragging them into alleys, and killing people (albeit rapists and murderers) to prove to Darla that he could still be the demon she'd always known. He couldn't deal with who he was, so he did his best to retreat back to being the evil SOB he'd been. Same thing with Spike--his defense against all the guilt and remorse he had to suddenly be feeling was to try to act like nothing had changed ("I didn't give a piss about your mum", etc.).

If anything, Spike handles it better than Angel did. He, at least, didn't murder anybody, evil or otherwise (I'm obviously not counting what he did while the First was sleepwalking him around), and the only person he bit was someone who'd just attacked and tried to kill him, and even that was only done as a warning of, "Don't try it again, mate."

I like that they continued this attitude into S5 of "Angel", until they finally had him stop and confront all those past evil deeds at the end of "Damage". That scene between him and Angel has to be one of my absolute favorites, from either series.

[hitnrun017]

Angel didn't really have a purpose though. Kind of a lame argument, but it's true. He was confused and lost. He didn't change until he met Whistler, more so Buffy. Spike had Buffy defending him for months, giving him "I believe in you" speeches, something Angel never got. I highly doubt Angel would bite someone after they attacked him for murdering their mother after he met Buffy.

Also, Spike said "I don't give a piss about your mum", present tense included. Also adding "I'll kill him" (if he tries it again) just adds insult to injury. I just can't buy it after everything we've seen from him that season.

I don't completely disagree, I think it was just unnecessary, a cheap writer trick to shock the audience into wondering if Spike killed him, not caring about his character.

[El Diablo Robotico]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's a "lame" argument... but I'm not sure that it's a real strong one, either. Regardless of the fact that one had a strong supporter in his corner and the other didn't, they were both still in the same situation of trying to come to grips with having this sudden massive pile of guilt dumped on them from over a century's worth of the evilest acts you could imagine. And they both reacted in a similar way.

Okay, so I got the quote a tiny bit wrong--"didn't"/"don't". Doesn't make a difference either way, because it comes down to the question of: Do you believe he really meant it or not? Did he really not care about killing Nikki, or was he putting up a front--both for Wood, and for himself? Remember that this is just a couple eps after "Get It Done", where Buffy basically called the souled version of him a wussy little nancy-boy in front of everybody.

You can debate the differences in his situation and Angel's, but since the precedent had been set with Angel's actions, 1898-1900, it's perfectly reasonable for the writers to put Spike thru something similar and have it be believable. Especially since it wasn't done just for the sake of this one episode--they stayed true with him carrying that "I don't give a bloody damn" attitude right thru onto "Angel", and finally paid it off brilliantly at the end of "Damage"...

[hitnrun017]

Yeah, I fold. That totally makes more sense than what I came up with. Progression makes more sense than support. Forgot about that part of the Buffy speech in Get it Done. Hmm... that seems kind of weird now after the "believe in you speech", but anyways... still doesn't mean I have to like it. I'll look at that Damage scene in a new light though.

[El Diablo Robotico]

I won? I won! ;D

No, but seriously, I do get what you're saying, and it's a decent point. Spike did have an advantage that Angel didn't: someone standing by him and reassuring him that he was a good man. But that's balanced out by the fact that Spike's immediate post-ensoulment offenses weren't nearly as bad as Angel's. Angel was attacking innocent people on the street, dragging their wives into alleys and biting them, and killing criminals. Spike made a callous crack about a guy's mom, and gave him an oww-ee. The guy put a band-aid on it and was back at work the next day. It was roughly the equivalent of punching him in the nose...

[Inappropriate Starches]

I think you both make pretty excellent points. I also agree about the scene in "Damage". I always really liked that. I also liked the mention that Spike and Angel were victims too once. That was always the defence I wanted Buffy to use when people were anti-both of them because they were 'just vampires', but really, how do you think they got that way?

I did consider the speech by Buffy in "Get It Done". I don't think it takes away from the "I believe in you" thing though because in "Get It Done" everything was kind of going to hell and Buffy needed a strong fighter and really the whole thing was the 'everybody sucks but me' speech.

And then when I think about it when Angel basically fed the Wolfram and Hart lawyers to Darla and Dru, it was a clear moment of insanity but it didn't bug me the way the biting Robin thing did. I think Spike really was just desperately trying to not care, sort of like season 2 Angel, so I feel a little better about it now. Good points everyone, lol.

[thisyearsgirl91]

I think the fact that Spike still wore the leather jacket, goes to show that he doesn't really care.

Surely the jacket represents his evil side? He wore it because he took it from a dead Slayer. Why would a good person continue to wear it?

How horrible would that have been for Wood to see? Would you have liked to watch Spike walk around with your dead mother's jacket?

[Skytteflickan88]

I wrote this on another forum, about who's side I took in the Robin vs Spike fight, so I figured I would copy it.

Up until I was about to write this post, I thought they were both jerks in equal messaures. But now, while I wanted Spike alive and still do, I totally see where Robin was coming from and see how Spike's behavior is worse.

Up until now, I thought that Robin should have seen that Spike was a good man now, not the same as the man that killed his mom. But then I remembered this scene
vrya.net/bdb/clip.php?clip=4029

Spike does talk about his old self and mentiones he's different now, but the way he talked about killing, who wouldn't think "This guy is trouble"?

From what Robin knew, Spike was a guy with a messed of view of right and wrong, and ready to go off any minute. I understand why he wanted him dead. He did right with the info he had(unless I'm forgetting a important scene where Spike showed he was a good person without a doubt, and Robin could have seen it for himself). He thought Spike was likely to be bad, and even if he wasn't, he was a risk.

I'm not sure if he would have thought Spike needed to die in case he never found out that Spike killed his mom. Or maybe he would still have killed him, because he's a risk. I'd like to think that if Robin had wanted to, he could have seen who Spike trully was, but I think he was blinded by his hate.

And really, what sick **** walks around with the coat of one of his victims!?!

That really pissed me off and that might have been what made Robin make up his mind. I get that Spike might not have thought about where he got the coat up until Lies My Parents Told Me, but after that ep, he should have put it away. I get Spike was angry in LMPTM, telling Robin those things, taking the coat back, but it's still not right.



He seems to think that just because Nikki was a slayer, she doesn't deserve as much respect or sympathy like other people, because she choose to get in the game. How could people who risk their lives to save other people not be worth as much as other people? How can he treat that coat as a throphy? She wasn't just a warrior, she was a mother trying to make the world a safer place for her son(I assume).



I love Spike, but he makes me so angry sometimes. I think he has such potential to be a good person, and maybe by now in the comics he would feel bad about killing Nikki. Or maybe not.

[The Girl In Question]

I don't know why Spike bit Robin wood, but everyone's perspective seems plausible. However, I still think his behavior was that of an anus apple. I agree that he should have felt guilty for every human life he took, slayer or not. I actually like LMPTM, but I really hate the ending. I really didn't like Buffy or Spike at the ending. Shame on them!

[Skytteflickan88]

I think the biting part is likely to have been Spike's way of saying either:

"I own you. Stay out of my way."

or

"See? I could have killed you, but didn't. That prove I'm safe?"

[henzINNIT]

He was a total dick to Wood, and then Buffy was worse. Neither of them thought to give him even a little sympathy? The bite was just a silly attempt at tension.

[Inappropriate Starches]

I think Buffy tried to give him a little sympathy, but that wasn't what was important in her battle. I don't think it was kind in any way, but she knew Spike was the stronger fighter therefore he was more valuable in the fight. Again, I don't think it was great and I think this was near the beginning of Buffy losing herself and becoming too much of just a fighter, especially with the whole "The mission is what matters" thing and forgetting about you know, human decency.

I understand why Wood wanted to kill Spike, and Spike was a threat because of the trigger, but of course I didn't want Spike to die. I seem to be more on the fence than ever about how I feel about Spike biting Wood. However I do think continuing to wear the coat was in essence simply a cover so he could pretend he didn't care and to prove to Buffy he was still the fighter he always was. I mean he did get it back in "Get It Done" because Buffy wanted him to be his old self again before he even knew who Robin was.

[Paul]

I'm totally on Spike's side, and disagree with the people who say it was bad writing/OOC. Spike isn't some nicey nicey guy who's going to mollycoddle people. At the end of the day, he was a vampire and Nikki was a Slayer. Why should Spike apologise for that? They fought and she lost, shit happens. Should Buffy apologise to the families of all the demons and vampires she kills?

The truth is, Spike isn't responsible for the crimes he committed without a soul and I think he's practical enough to know that. He was turned into an evil demon against his will and did evil things. Sure, he feels guilty, but he's not going to grovel for forgiveness over something he isn't really his fault, especially to someone who just tried to kill him.

I hate these characters who only care about vengeance, whether it makes sense or not. Holtz was an annoying idiot, whining about his dead family and trying to take revenge on a killer who didn't even exist anymore. Buffy and Spike were right to treat Wood like they did; he was living in the past and jeopardizing their current mission for his own selfish revenge. To his credit though, he overcame his hate and came out a hero.

As for the coat, I think it is was it is: a trophy. Spike's proud of the fact that he killed a Slayer, it's one of his biggest achievements. Even with a soul, he's proud of his Big Bad reputation. If he was wearing the coat of some helpless victim, it would be sick, but Nikki was a powerful warrior who knew was she was doing and accepted the cost.

[Hallow Thorn]

I am not a big Spike fan but I am with Paul, but if Spike did that to my mother I would do the same, so I can't blame Wood at all. anyway I miss Wood. I wish he was part of season 8.