Spike: Ongoing Series (Early Discussion)

[Wyndam]

SPIKE: ONGOING SERIES



Written by: Brian Lynch

Art by: Franco Urru

2010

Here's the initial report from BUFFYFEST:

IDW Panel Bombshell - Major Spoilers



MAJOR COMIC SPOILERS - Don't read below if you don't want to know
the IDW panel opened up with Brian Lynch and Chris Ryall announcing the
following:

Brian Lynch and Juliet Landau spoke over Facebook about how she was
intrigued by what's going on in the story and Spike's story. From that
conversation they are now going to be co-writing a 2-shot for IDW about
Drusilla.

They also spoke about some sort of Gunn story (apparently Gunn's alive
in Kelley Armstrong's Angel: Aftermath....or something).

Finally, the announced that they are doing a Spike Comic written by
Lynch and it has an indefinite issue amount as of now. I think Lynch's
words were "we'll keep doing it until people get sick of it".

Check back for full video later (along with video of the Dark Horse
panel.)

Finally, here is a video interview with Brian from the great folks at BUFFYFEST, that sheds more details on the new series.

Since this isn't launching until the Fall, we only need one thread for now. Once we start getting issue solicitations, we can start thinking about a new board and threads.

So big news, discuss!

[hitnrun017]

I think this is cool, but I'm sort of scratching my head about it. Very beyond happy that Brian will be writing this and I think it's sweet it'll be ongoing, but I will miss Spike's interaction with the gang. I wonder if Illyria will join him.

[CowboyGuy]

Woot! Holler! A Spike on-going means we will have a NEW Spike board on the forum! Yippy!

Great news!

[Hallow Thorn]

I knew it ... I hope Illyria is part of it, if not I will not be a fan of it (I will still get the TPB tho coz of Brian Lynch and it being canon) and Drusilla Yay....

Gunn is

SPOILER: Click to show

alive, dam.... I wanted him to die.

[tms]

Feb 6, 2009 17:56:00 GMT -5 Hallow Thorn said:

I knew it ... I hope Illyria is part of it, if not I will not be a fan of it (I will still get the TPB tho coz of Brian Lynch and it being canon) and Drusilla Yay....

Gunn is

SPOILER: Click to show

alive, dam.... I wanted him to die.

Apparently, Illyria is crossing over into a nother title called "Fallen Angel: Reborn"
buffyfest.blogspot.com/2009/02/idw-follow-up.html

[Emmie]

I'm really happy about this because I LOVED Spike: After the Fall and it's great to hear that it'll last as long as its got momentum. But it makes me wonder that this has an unlimited number of issues set, Buffy has 40 issues for Season 8 and Season 9 is already confirmed as happening, but Angel: Aftermath has only 6 issues...

We need someone at the helm for Angel's story to continue long-term.

Also, who's doing the art with Urru? *chants* Fabio Mantovani, Fabio Mantovani, please Fabio Mantovani...

[VampSlayer]

I am actually mad that Spike will be leaving Angel and Co. D: And if Illyria leaves too...I don't know how I will feel. So far, the only good thing happening, IMO, is Kate returning. :/

[Paul]

Hmm... mixed feelings about this. One of the things I love about the Buffyverse is how small and focused it is. We basically had two ongoing series, both overseen by one man with one vision. Obviously, many other people contributed to the universe, but we always had Joss' single vision to keep things tight and on the right track. When the series made the move to comic books, one of my friends asked me if I'd like to see a much wider Buffyverse with various titles for each character; I said no, because I felt that if you split the titles up between so many writers, the quality would become severely diluted because Joss couldn't oversee all of them. You'd have something like the Marvel universe, where all the titles vary wildly in quality and don't always compliment each other. Which is fine for the Marvel Universe, but...

I believe Dark Horse are doing a great job with the Buffy franchise, they have a primary ongoing canon series and a couple of canon spin-off limited series (Fray, Tales). It's all very consistant, quality and continuity-wise. With IDW... not so much. Obviously After the Fall is canon, but then you have grey areas like the Spike books and Aftermath. We've also got Blood and Trenches, that Fallen Angel crossover, all the episode adaptations, the upcoming Drusilla series, and a Spike ongoing series? Ehh. What IDW is doing is probably very wise financially, but it feels like they're oversaturating the Angel market. I don't know about you but for me, "canon" isn't just about continuity, it's about that magic stamp of approval that only Joss Whedon can bring. It's about quality control. And with each new Angel series IDW brings out, the concept of canon and what it means becomes increasingly ill-defined and meaningless. Without Joss' involvement on some level, how are these stories any different than the countless expanded universe stuff we had for years before Season Eight? Did you read Queen of the Slayers?

I was sceptical about Spike: After the Fall, it seemed like an unnecessary cash-in. It actually turned out to be one of the best Buffyverse comics IDW have put out, so I slipped it into the "canon" category. Aftermath I'm less sure about. The argument for it's canonicity is extremely weak; it continues the numbering and Joss has supposedly approved it despite never having mentioned it. Also whereas Lynch was cherry picked by Joss for his talent, Kelley Armstrong has no such approval. But, a couple of the ideas in it sound intriquing so I'm on the fence. I'm going to wait until I read it before I decide whether to count it as canon. Now we have an ongoing Spike series? Don't get me wrong, if they're going to make a Spike series, Brian Lynch is the man to write it. I look forward to it. It just seems like Joss Whedon's involvement in this side of the Buffyverse is getting thinner and thinner. It's a slippery slope, and I just don't want to see the day when we have 20 ongoing Angel books written by Joe Talentless.

Now that I've covered the obligatory "is it canon" rant, some more positive comments: a Spike ongoing could have real potential if done right, and I do trust Lynch with the character. I hope Urru does the art, since he is to Spike what Karl Moline is to Fray. And Drusilla! Finally, somebody remembers that she exists, I was beginning to think we'd never see her again. I hope it's set in the present day and has suitably gothic Mignola-style artwork.

[Wyndam]

Feb 6, 2009 18:35:05 GMT -5 Paul said:

You'd have something like the Marvel universe, where all the titles vary wildly in quality and don't always compliment each other. Which is fine for the Marvel Universe, but...

I think it is a little too soon to compare the Buffyverse to the Marvel Universe. For one thing, we don't have any contradicting storylines, convoluted histories, etc., to deal with yet.

Feb 6, 2009 18:35:05 GMT -5 Paul said:

I believe Dark Horse are doing a great job with the Buffy franchise, they have a primary ongoing canon series and a couple of canon spin-off limited series (Fray, Tales). It's all very consistant, quality and continuity-wise. With IDW... not so much.

Disagree here. I think IDW has done a tremendous job with the Angel license. If Dark Horse still had the rights, we'd probably all just be reading Buffy Season 8 right now. IDW are giving Angel fans what they want, more Angel, and everything they have released since the start of Angel: After the Fall has been excellent, high quality work. They know how to treat the fans right. From the lavish hard covers, to more content that we can look forward too.

When it comes to the canon debate and Angel, honestly at this point, I could care less. Joss is probably never going to actively participate in the Angelverse again. Sad, but probably true. Angel has always and will always be the red-headed step child of Joss' shows. He only took an interest in the Angel comics when he saw potential in Brian writing and overseeing the whole operation, and so Dark Horse could use Angel characters if they wanted to (namely, Angel and Spike, probably). We will never find out whether this or that is canon from Joss, and we won't see Joss actively overseeing Angel, so we have to accept what we have and enjoy it. That is all we can really do at this point, enjoy what we are given, and be happy that IDW took an interest in the Angel series and will continue providing us with more stories. I couldn't be happier with what we have been given.

I know the canon debate means more to some people. If something isn't given the "Yes it is canon" approval from Joss, they won't touch it. With Angel we won't be getting that luxury, so it is up to the fans to keep reading if they like what IDW is releasing.

[Paul]

Feb 6, 2009 18:55:24 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Interesting post, Paul. And I definitely agree with you about the slippery slope and oversaturating the market.

Whenever I go into my comic store, the owner always pulls everything Angel related out for me but I can't afford to buy all that. Poor student working part-time. I always buy Buffy Season 8 and After the Fall. Now we're going to be having a ridiculous amount of releases coming from IDW and I'm wondering where the money is coming for customers buying all these products.

I'm worried that people will be forced to pick and choose what they can buy - Spike or Angel, Drusilla mini-series or Blood and Trenches, not to mention many people who would need to buy all of Fallen Angel to get caught up for the Illyria crossover. It's A LOT. And there's only so many Buffyverse and Angel fans out there. Maybe it's good business for IDW to be marketing their most popular licensed series. But I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

As for canon, I think it's reached the point where the traditional definition of canon - Joss Whedon's involvement - is being tossed out the window over at IDW. No way all these projects have been run by Joss and he's had some direct input.

I think perhaps the reason I'm so cynical is because I read comic books regularly, and I'm sick of sifting through the dregs to get to the good stuff. For example, the current main X-Men storyline is happening in X-Force, but there's like five other X-titles running at the same time because it's a profitable franchise and people will buy crap if there's an X in the title. Brian Bendis revitalised the Avengers franchise a few years ago, and now there's four or five Avengers books. I'm not sure it's a wise move in the long run though; Marvel recently dropped all their spin-off Spidey books to focus purely on Amazing Spider-Man, and as far as I know it's been a lot more successful critically and financially. Less is more and all that.

As for canon, I think with a franchise like the Buffyverse, where you have all this tie-in merchandise like the old comics and the novels, you kind of have to define what is and is not canon. Joss himself has went on record as saying, "Canon is key, as is continuity. If you are massive nerd. Which I am. I believe there's a demarcation between the creation and ancillary creations by different people. I'm all for that stuff, just like fanfic, but I like to know what's there's an absolutely official story-so-far, especially when something changes mediums, which my stuff seems to do a lot." So if we're to take him at his word, does that mean everything IDW has produced except Angel: After the Fall is actually non-canon and he's just too polite to say anything? It's a total grey area.

[CowboyGuy]

I think that Spike is a strong enough character to carry his own title. The only problem I see is that the wealth of television based characters (that we love) is drying up rather fast. Many fans have little to no interest in comic-created characters (which is unfortunate). I really hope that the writers of these spin-off titles can come up with dynamic and interesting casts so that readers will stay interested. Canon doesn't really bother me. I think that as long as Angel stays in a linear storyline, it will always be the official story in my mind. Until the day comes where a film, or new television show tells me otherwise. I don't really fuss with back stories and tales from the past, etc. I only care about the "what happens next?" part, haha.

It's true that it's a slippery slope. As of now, I cannot afford to add more titles to my purchasing, at the comic shop. I buy all Buffy stuff, including TPB's, all Angel stuff, including bound volumes. I'm already thinking that I may have to skip stuff.

Off topic rant that I'm just gonna post here....

As time goes by, I am feeling a little annoyed that we have yet to have mention of Angel and Spike in Season 8. I know it shouldn't be a big deal...but I just don't see why it hasn't happened. Especially for DAWN. Spike was certainly a close friend and confidant to her, and even if Buffy hasn't said A WORD...I don't see why we don't have anything from the other characters. It's just starting to get to me. I am not a Spuffy shipper, but if that loose end doesn't get addressed soon I'm going to be upset. It really needs to happen. This is a problem I have with Buffy, not with Angel. Everything Brian Lynch has touched so far is gold to me, haha.

[CowboyGuy]

Emmie, for the sake of keeping this on track...maybe we should start a canon-debate. But what board should it be under?

[Wyndam]

Update from Brian at Whedonesque:

Hey everyone!

Angel will still very much be a part of Spike's world and vice versa, no fretting.

Juliet Landau has such good ideas it's a thrill to work with her. And to read dialog for Drusilla WRITTEN by Drusilla? Gonna be amazing.

This is very much what I wanted to hear, some confirmation that the Angel and Spike comics will be able to crossover with each other, perhaps even being two parts of one larger story. Can't wait to learn more.

[Paul]

Feb 6, 2009 19:09:00 GMT -5 Wyndam said:

Feb 6, 2009 18:35:05 GMT -5 Paul said:

I believe Dark Horse are doing a great job with the Buffy franchise, they have a primary ongoing canon series and a couple of canon spin-off limited series (Fray, Tales). It's all very consistant, quality and continuity-wise. With IDW... not so much.

Disagree here. I think IDW has done a tremendous job with the Angel license. If Dark Horse still had the rights, we'd probably all just be reading Buffy Season 8 right now. IDW are giving Angel fans what they want, more Angel, and everything they have released since the start of Angel: After the Fall has been excellent, high quality work. They know how to treat the fans right. From the lavish hard covers, to more content that we can look forward too.

When it comes to the canon debate and Angel, honestly at this point, I could care less. Joss is probably never going to actively participate in the Angelverse again. Sad, but probably true. Angel has always and will always be the red-headed step child of Joss' shows. He only took an interest in the Angel comics when he saw potential in Brian writing and overseeing the whole operation, and so Dark Horse could use Angel characters if they wanted to (namely, Angel and Spike, probably). We will never find out whether this or that is canon from Joss, and we won't see Joss actively overseeing Angel, so we have to accept what we have and enjoy it. That is all we can really do at this point, enjoy what we are given, and be happy that IDW took an interest in the Angel series and will continue providing us with more stories. I couldn't be happier with what we have been given.

I know the canon debate means more to some people. If something isn't given the "Yes it is canon" approval from Joss, they won't touch it. With Angel we won't be getting that luxury, so it is up to the fans to keep reading if they like what IDW is releasing.

IMO, Dark Horse have handled their series better than IDW. Season Eight feels more organised, whereas AtF has had First Night clumsily merged into it, and disruptive artwork changes. Lavish hardcovers, while much appreciated, do not make up for Runge's horribly rushed pencil's at the end of #11.

Canon, like all fiction, is subjective. And I'm happy to read non-canon stuff, I just like to know where it stands. If Joss said "I'm handing the reigns over to writer X, his/her stuff is canon", then great. But he's conspicuous by his silence, IMO.

Feb 6, 2009 19:27:32 GMT -5 Emmie said:

Canon. The dreaded topic. I'm thinking about starting a thread entitled, "Why does canon matter to you?" for people to actually weigh in on this.

The problem with not having it defined is that eventually the stories don't match up. I like being able to look at a story and say, "There! That's a continuation of the story from a few years ago." And the important thing to remember is that Whedon's works are all incredibly long stories that deal with consistent character progression.

This means that canon becomes even more important in the Whedonverse because the story is written with the intention that it all connects to a greater picture. My concern with all these different properties occurring over at IDW is it lacks the one vision to unify them. Obviously Ryall is going to be the editor for these works, but I'm talking about the creative story control of an Executive Producer in the way that Joss and Minear and Fury ran the story.

Who is the one creative mind keeping the Angelverse together? I don't think they have one and that concerns me.

Such a thread might be a good idea, since canon pushers like me would have a place to whine instead of party-pooping over people genuinely excited about the new Spike series (sorry, btw). I'm still kinda annoyed the "Is Aftermath canon?" thread was closed rather abruptly for no reason.

Emmie, your last sentence basically summed up my entire point.

[Malsad]

it looks good
but pauls right, its a slipery slope and also the cannon issue
i think joss should at least be the person who reads the script and if something is way off then says hells no
well thats what i think

[Emmie]

I've started a new thread Does canon matter? and I'm copying and deleting my posts regarding canon from this thread and moving them over there.

[Wyndam]

Feb 6, 2009 19:44:55 GMT -5 Malsad said:

i think joss should at least be the person who reads the script and if something is way off then

In a perfect world, this would happen. We don't have that luxury anymore though. Brian has proven himself to be one of the best writer's the Buffyverse has had, so I don't have any reservations in saying that he won't steer the fan's wrong and release anything that isn't up to his previous standards.

[Whedon Fan]

Definatley Wyndam. Totally agree Brian Lynch has proven himself a hundred times over that he is more than capable at writing for these charatcers, the first thing I did when I found out about the Spike on going series was to see if Brian was writing it, and where Brian goes Franco is not far behind.

Extremley happy about this news and as I stated over at the canon topic. As this continues on from the events of After The Fall then I class it as canon. Can't wait, congrats to Brain for getting this on going series and thanks!

[Smashed]

So, now what comics do we have that continue the story?

Buffy Season 8
Angel: After The Fall
Spike: After The Fall
Angel: Aftermath
New Spike Story
and a Drusilla 2-shot?

And I've just been skimming posts, but did I read something about Dru and Kate returning, and Spike is leaving the Angel team?

[Malsad]

the dru thing seems to be going to be in the angel series, such as Atf Am etc