|
Post by winterdreamer on Jan 15, 2010 20:21:23 GMT -5
maybe Spike has finally found the Sluggoth demon thats right for him.....
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 16, 2010 6:27:48 GMT -5
Fanbase be damned, we do not dictate the story, Joss does. And if said fan really gets angry because whoever Buffy ends up with isn't who he/she wanted, causing him/her to stop reading. Then maybe that person was never a real fan of Buffy to begin with. I think we agree for the most part on this. I was responding to the poster who didn't want it to be Riley. I totally agree that Buffy and Spike should be with whomever the writers dictate they should be with Sorry about my post I think it came out a little strongly worded, I just have an irrational dislike for Riley. Also, I would never stop reading any series just because I didn't like the shipping in it- the stories the writers create are just magic and the relationships aren't the only plotlines
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Jan 16, 2010 8:26:26 GMT -5
I totally agree that Buffy and Spike should be with whomever the writers dictate they should be with Sorry about my post I think it came out a little strongly worded, I just have an irrational dislike for Riley. Also, I would never stop reading any series just because I didn't like the shipping in it- the stories the writers create are just magic and the relationships aren't the only plotlines Just to be clear, i wasn't talking about you. I totally understand why you wouldn't want Buffy to end up with Riley, for me it's because like bangel, they had their shot and it didn't work out(to put it mildly). But as we do see in season8, she does still care about him a lot which is only natural. And now that i have thought about it some more, i think the biggest reason why no post-Buffy Spike relationship(on Spike side) has worked for me is because none of it was written by Joss. If Joss really sees the character moving on, i'll be ok with it. But so far none of it was written by him and every "romantic" relationship was imo subpar. And i can't wait to see Spike's appearence in s8, finally Spike will interact(hopefully) with Buffy and the scoobies. Some fans have speculated that Twilight is future Angel which makes it pretty much all safe. Makes me wonder that when Spike appears, will it be current Spike or future Spike too? Twilight showed deep hatred for "spike", even going as far as killing the person that found the "spike". Maybe future Angel tried to recruit future Spike and he declined because they didn't see eye to eye on the issues, making them enemies again. And the best thing about this scenario is that it would only reflect badly on future Angel. Current Angel would be in the clean.
|
|
neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
|
Post by neowhobaz on Jan 16, 2010 17:15:54 GMT -5
The big question that keeps coming back to me is what the real reason Spike as a character didn't wanto go back to Buffy. Realistically in the show I understand that it was because Sarah michelle gellar was to busy/ didn't want to come back but Spike's reason in Angel season 5 and the expanded Universe after five (which chronologically doesn't take place that far after Season 5, a few months at most) as to why he hasn't tried to pursue her seems rather vague. I remember in season 5 he said because he didn't want her to think less of him after dying to save the world, but he wasn't brought back by choice and that reason feelsl ike such a copout. I'm not for any particular pairing but I think it would be interesting if Brian explored this. Like Spike's inner reasons for avoiding her or trying to move on.
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 17, 2010 8:02:56 GMT -5
The big question that keeps coming back to me is what the real reason Spike as a character didn't wanto go back to Buffy. Realistically in the show I understand that it was because Sarah michelle gellar was to busy/ didn't want to come back but Spike's reason in Angel season 5 and the expanded Universe after five (which chronologically doesn't take place that far after Season 5, a few months at most) as to why he hasn't tried to pursue her seems rather vague. I remember in season 5 he said because he didn't want her to think less of him after dying to save the world, but he wasn't brought back by choice and that reason feelsl ike such a copout. I'm not for any particular pairing but I think it would be interesting if Brian explored this. Like Spike's inner reasons for avoiding her or trying to move on. I think maybe it's because of her telling him that she loved him at the end of season 7. He said he didn't believe her at the time but maybe a part of him did, and he doesn't want to go back to her for fear that she'll say she was lying and just said it because he was dying. It's got to be better living with the hope that maybe your one true love does love you back, rather than knowing for a fact that they don't?
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Jan 17, 2010 8:34:35 GMT -5
I think maybe it's because of her telling him that she loved him at the end of season 7. He said he didn't believe her at the time but maybe a part of him did, and he doesn't want to go back to her for fear that she'll say she was lying and just said it because he was dying. It's got to be better living with the hope that maybe your one true love does love you back, rather than knowing for a fact that they don't? Yep, that was the reason given. Ofcourse outside of the show it was because Buffy was over and Spike was moved to Angel. A part of me still would have rather wanted that Spike remained on Buffy, then we would still would have gotten Spike as a regular in season8. Inside the show, first he was stuck there as a ghost, then he felt insecure because he was afraid Buffy didn't mean the i love you. Then he chose to stay because after the team lost Fred, he knew something big was coming and he wanted to be there for the fight. And lastly Spike was under the impression that Buffy was dating the immortal. First he wanted to "save" her which Angel was against because it would make him look bad. Spike made his point clear, he doesn't believe he has a shot with her but he still wants to see her happy and living life to the fullest(except with Angel). So those were Spike's final thoughts about her, he thought she was happy and in love and over him. Spike is the classic underdog. Ofcourse we readers of season8 know that this was totally fake and both seem quite miserable in concerns to their love life. So yeah, now seems like a perfect reunion time.
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 17, 2010 8:39:08 GMT -5
Ofcourse we readers of season8 know that this was totally fake and both seem quite miserable in concerns to their love life. So yeah, now seems like a perfect reunion time. I think Spike and Buffy were the best relationship on either of the TV series' because they were the most realistic (love being intertwined with obsession and disgust etc.) I'd love to see them reunited sometime and now that both exist in comic form that's finally possible
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 17, 2010 10:49:37 GMT -5
The big question that keeps coming back to me is what the real reason Spike as a character didn't wanto go back to Buffy. Realistically in the show I understand that it was because Sarah michelle gellar was to busy/ didn't want to come back but Spike's reason in Angel season 5 and the expanded Universe after five (which chronologically doesn't take place that far after Season 5, a few months at most) as to why he hasn't tried to pursue her seems rather vague. I remember in season 5 he said because he didn't want her to think less of him after dying to save the world, but he wasn't brought back by choice and that reason feelsl ike such a copout. I'm not for any particular pairing but I think it would be interesting if Brian explored this. Like Spike's inner reasons for avoiding her or trying to move on. It's too bad they instead of being able to play out the love triangle between Angel/Spike&Buffy and letting the story grow to it's full potential (unless what we saw was exactly what Joss wanted, and he wouldn't have done much different if he had SMG available), they had to adapt. Same now in the comics, since they're not all written by the same company/writer. But I think I can accept that Spike didn't return to Buffy, even tough at first, it just seemed like a way to keep Spike around (kinda like when the scoobies should have been smart enough to stake spike in season 4, but didn't). Maybe he, like mentioned eralier in this thread, did fear that Buffy lied and wanted to believe that she might love him, but I think it's most likely that he just gave up. I think, like he implied/said in season 5, that the last moment he had with Buffy was wonderful, and since he couldn't hope for there to ever be more between them than in that moment, Spike finally took no for an answer. Too bad that he doesn't know that no wasn't the answer that time (Joss has later said that Buffy did mean the "I love you" when she said it.).
|
|
jellymoff
Ensouled Vampire
Claimer of Funn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,174
|
Post by jellymoff on Jan 17, 2010 11:22:38 GMT -5
Too bad that he doesn't know that no wasn't the answer that time (Joss has later said that Buffy did mean the "I love you" when she said it.). Interesting. It makes me wonder this-What did her "I love you" mean, even if she meant it? I love my dad, my cats, my wife, and my best friend, and those are 4 different types of love. Was she "in love" with Spike, or does she just "love" him.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Jan 17, 2010 11:32:43 GMT -5
To me, the more important bit was the fact that it was finally validation for him. It didn't matter which kind of love she meant, and quite honestly, it can be debated every which way, including that they both were referring to different kinds of love in that moment. But the fact that she told him she loved him, regardless of type, is validation in that he's deserving of love, despite the horrible things he's done, including to her. That she still accepts him as being good enough to love. That her keeping him around wasn't just because he was a good fighter, and she needed good fighters. It's similar to that moment they share in S5, where Buffy re-invites Spike back into her home, and he tells her that she makes him feel like a "man". If I had to choose my favorite exchange between the two, it would be that one, despite the fact that I'm not a shipper in any sense of the word.
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 17, 2010 11:38:24 GMT -5
Too bad that he doesn't know that no wasn't the answer that time (Joss has later said that Buffy did mean the "I love you" when she said it.). If she meant it then her behaviour was a little strange- surely after he said "no you don't" the immediate response would be "yes I do", instead of letting him die not knowing?
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Jan 17, 2010 12:05:19 GMT -5
Interesting. It makes me wonder this-What did her "I love you" mean, even if she meant it? I love my dad, my cats, my wife, and my best friend, and those are 4 different types of love. Was she "in love" with Spike, or does she just "love" him. Joss meant it as it was said, he made no difference between in love or simply love. Hell, in a season7 episode Buffy flat out says to Willow: "Why does everbody think that i'm still in love with Spike." Something like that, i remember the words "still in love" and "with Spike" were used. My point is, it was usually the other shippers that tried to act as if either Spike was right and she didn't love him or Spike was never loved to begin with or Buffy was feeling sorry for the guy. None of that is true, Joss has repeatedly stated that Spike matters a whole lot to Buffy and she meant the i love you. Just read the recent interview, Joss says "that just like Angel, Spike means so much to Buffy." If she meant it then her behaviour was a little strange- surely after he said "no you don't" the immediate response would be "yes I do", instead of letting him die not knowing? I think it was more shock then anything and ofcourse it was neither the time or place to argue about it. Spike also says with heart and conviction that "I have to do this!". Closing down that hellmouth was a sort of rites of passage for Spike. He could have left and live happily with Buffy but that wasn't the Spike he had become. As deemed a champion by Buffy, he saw it trough and finished the job. I'm really excited where Joss will take this, it is the only "open" Buffy relationship left from the past without any real closure.
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 17, 2010 12:25:49 GMT -5
I'm really excited where Joss will take this, it is the only "open" Buffy relationship left from the past without any real closure. I agree with you- and I seriously hope it's a relationship that re-emerges in coming issues It's strange because all the way through the TV series I was undoubtedly Bangel, but now- having re-watched it all with a little hindsight- I'm leaning towards Spuffy.
|
|
Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
|
Post by Whedon Fan on Jan 17, 2010 12:44:02 GMT -5
. . .don't think she really had the time to convince him whilst her eyes were welling up and the hellmouth was colapsing around her and swallowing sunnydale into the ground. I think that she meant it at the time. When she saw Spike standing there giving his life for her and for her friends at that moment she DID love him. . . If Spike did go back during ANgel season 5 and said "hey about that I love you thing". I reckon she'd just break his wee vamp heart and he'd go running back to Team Angel.
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Jan 17, 2010 13:16:57 GMT -5
If Spike did go back during ANgel season 5 and said "hey about that I love you thing". I reckon she'd just break his wee vamp heart and he'd go running back to Team Angel. Doubt it, she probaly would have given him one of these followed by lots and lots of
|
|
|
Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 17, 2010 13:18:20 GMT -5
Too bad that he doesn't know that no wasn't the answer that time (Joss has later said that Buffy did mean the "I love you" when she said it.). Interesting. It makes me wonder this-What did her "I love you" mean, even if she meant it? I love my dad, my cats, my wife, and my best friend, and those are 4 different types of love. Was she "in love" with Spike, or does she just "love" him. According to the fanb I heard it from, Joss said "in love". But did he mean "in love for the moemnt because this is great what you're doing" or "in love until I die"? To me, the more important bit was the fact that it was finally validation for him. It didn't matter which kind of love she meant, and quite honestly, it can be debated every which way, including that they both were referring to different kinds of love in that moment. But the fact that she told him she loved him, regardless of type, is validation in that he's deserving of love, despite the horrible things he's done, including to her. That she still accepts him as being good enough to love. That her keeping him around wasn't just because he was a good fighter, and she needed good fighters. It's similar to that moment they share in S5, where Buffy re-invites Spike back into her home, and he tells her that she makes him feel like a "man". If I had to choose my favorite exchange between the two, it would be that one, despite the fact that I'm not a shipper in any sense of the word. I wish I could see it like that, but I fear taht he just thought that she was overcome with pity or atleast gratefulness, not true appreciation. Hopefully, he believed she atleast liked him.
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 17, 2010 13:34:10 GMT -5
I wish I could see it like that, but I fear taht he just thought that she was overcome with pity or atleast gratefulness, not true appreciation. But she always knew he'd give his life for her, he made it very clear in "Intervention" when he said he'd die rather than see her suffer losing her sister. I think it's something she always felt and she just never had the guts to say it until she knew it was her last chance
|
|
neowhobaz
Respected Watcher
"Beyond the Shadow you settle for, there's miracle illuminated"[Mo0:0]
Posts: 594
|
Post by neowhobaz on Jan 17, 2010 14:04:07 GMT -5
I can't believe that the bigmouth that Andrew is has allowed him to keep it under wraps that spike is alive as long as he has. i mean I'd be a giddy schoolgirl about a secret like that and eventually blurt it out someone in the slayer camp but thats just me. And do I hope their relationship does get resolution betwee nthe exact two of them at some point. But I what Kratos said about his line in "The Girl in question" was on par with how he feels, which wwas beautifully done and I totally forgot about lol. I'm sure he and Angel will get some cookie dough at some pt.
|
|
Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
Joss Is Boss
Banner & Avatar Made By CBG[Mo0:3][Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,312
|
Post by Whedon Fan on Jan 17, 2010 14:59:00 GMT -5
Reading these last couple of threads, you guys are gonna love what we have planned. I want to spoil but DAMN I will wait. Craaap! I can't wait! I can tell I'm going to enjoy this one. Keep it up to the standards that you kept After The Fall and I'm sure a lot of others will be happy too! Any news on a release date yet, aside from "summer 2010" Summer as in May, June, July??
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Jan 17, 2010 15:00:09 GMT -5
I can't believe that the bigmouth that Andrew is has allowed him to keep it under wraps that spike is alive as long as he has In an interview one of the writers hinted that Buffy does know Spike's alive, saying you have to assume a lot of conversations between Buffy and Andrew happen off-screen. Sorry I can't remember where but I swear it's on slayalive somewhere
|
|