Spike: Ongoing Series (Early Discussion)

[Hellbound Hyperion]

Bah, who needs IDW to put Spike and Buffy together again post-Not Fade Away? We have Emmie for that.

[Brian Lynch]

Reading these last couple of threads, you guys are gonna love what we have planned. I want to spoil but DAMN I will wait. Craaap!

[Paul]

As others have said, Buffy is not the be-all-and-end-all of Spike's character. He moved on and found new purpose in life, as he should.

Kratos, you complain that Brian didn't reference the Buffy/Spike relationship. Why would he? During AtF, Spike was in hell, he had bigger, more immediate concerns than Buffy. I don't see how Buffy was relevant in Boys either. You sound like one of those shippers who just isn't happy unless their favorite pairing is the constant focus of attention.

If Buffy and Spike do reunite in the future, great, I'll most likely enjoy that. But for now, I'm far more interested in him finding his own identity away from Angel and Buffy. Surely that's the point of him getting his own series?

Jan 14, 2010 12:34:23 GMT -5 Brian Lynch said:

Reading these last couple of threads, you guys are gonna love what we have planned. I want to spoil but DAMN I will wait. Craaap!

Intriquing. ;D

[Billie Erin]

Jan 14, 2010 12:44:49 GMT -5 Paul said:

As others have said, Buffy is not the be-all-and-end-all of Spike's character. He moved on and found new purpose in life, as he should.

Kratos, you complain that Brian didn't reference the Buffy/Spike relationship. Why would he? During AtF, Spike was in hell, he had bigger, more immediate concerns than Buffy. I don't see how Buffy was relevant in Boys either. You sound like one of those shippers who just isn't happy unless their favorite pairing is the constant focus of attention.

If Buffy and Spike do reunite in the future, great, I'll most likely enjoy that. But for now, I'm far more interested in him finding his own identity away from Angel and Buffy. Surely that's the point of him getting his own series?

I agree that Spike is a great stand-alone character and he doesn't NEED Buffy, but I was really surprised that the dream sequence during his torture in Spike: After the Fall featured him and Fred together not him and Buffy- I mean she is supposed to be the love of his life

[Kratos]

Jan 14, 2010 12:44:49 GMT -5 Paul said:

Kratos, you complain that Brian didn't reference the Buffy/Spike relationship. Why would he? During AtF, Spike was in hell, he had bigger, more immediate concerns than Buffy. I don't see how Buffy was relevant in Boys either. You sound like one of those shippers who just isn't happy unless their favorite pairing is the constant focus of attention.

Because it is supposed to be the follow-up of Not fade away. And up until the final episodes, Buffy was never too far from his mind.
And he isn't moving on/has a mission/destiny. For the entire run of ATF and further, he's been kept as the annoying wacky/little brother/sidekick.woreshipping Angel.
No, the pairing isn't even my first concern, Spike interacting with the scoobs,Buffy is. Not being used to make Angel look good, by far the current Angel comics being the worst. He's never going to get a real destiny,mission, sense of purpose under Angel's reign. Everytime he steps back in Angel-land, Spike gets reduced to nothing. On Buffy, he was The vampire with a soul, the only one in the group. In the Angel comics he's always number 2(now 3 or 4 with how many new minions Angel has).

Jan 14, 2010 12:44:49 GMT -5 Paul said:

If Buffy and Spike do reunite in the future, great, I'll most likely enjoy that. But for now, I'm far more interested in him finding his own identity away from Angel and Buffy. Surely that's the point of him getting his own series?

Yet what good is all this development if it gets reduced to nothing when Spike makes an appearence in Angel's comic again?
We'll see about the new series but i will definitely remain sceptical(yeah how shocking).

Pro's: The series being looked at long-term, away from Angel, new intresting characters,Franco.

Cons:Not very far from Angel,,hopefully not too many "castmembers".

Hopes: Real profound and lasting development for Spike,globetrotting,while i definitely want the Spike/Buffy reunion to be handeld by Joss. I wouldn't mind for some Buffy characters to do a crossover in the Spike series, like for example Xander,Willow,Giles,ect.
Different time-periods, hey if Batman can do it, so can Spike. And if ever in the far-future, Spike/Fray crossover drawn by the amazing Karl Moline would be the end of all ends or something like that. More epic fights, Spike loves to fight and he loves challenges.

[kaleidoscope]

Jan 14, 2010 13:33:42 GMT -5 Billie Erin said:

Jan 14, 2010 12:44:49 GMT -5 Paul said:

As others have said, Buffy is not the be-all-and-end-all of Spike's character. He moved on and found new purpose in life, as he should.

Kratos, you complain that Brian didn't reference the Buffy/Spike relationship. Why would he? During AtF, Spike was in hell, he had bigger, more immediate concerns than Buffy. I don't see how Buffy was relevant in Boys either. You sound like one of those shippers who just isn't happy unless their favorite pairing is the constant focus of attention.

If Buffy and Spike do reunite in the future, great, I'll most likely enjoy that. But for now, I'm far more interested in him finding his own identity away from Angel and Buffy. Surely that's the point of him getting his own series?

I agree that Spike is a great stand-alone character and he doesn't NEED Buffy, but I was really surprised that the dream sequence during his torture in Spike: After the Fall featured him and Fred together not him and Buffy- I mean she is supposed to be the love of his life

I think that the reason Spike dreamed of Fred was because she was in the forefront of his mind at that time. Non had captured Illyria-Fred and he had no idea whether she was alive or dead, and blamed himself for her fate.

[Kratos]

Jan 14, 2010 14:28:51 GMT -5 kaleidoscope said:

I think that the reason Spike dreamed of Fred was because she was in the forefront of his mind at that time. Non had captured Illyria-Fred and he had no idea whether she was alive or dead, and blamed himself for her fate.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Billie Erin]

Jan 14, 2010 14:28:51 GMT -5 kaleidoscope said:

I think that the reason Spike dreamed of Fred was because she was in the forefront of his mind at that time. Non had captured Illyria-Fred and he had no idea whether she was alive or dead, and blamed himself for her fate.

This does make sense

But it always bugged me, along with the fact that when Angel was in pain he imagined talking to Cordelia- it always made sense to me that a person would imagine being with the one they loved the most in times of hardship, despite what was in the forefront of their mind (then again I've never been tortured so I guess I don't know)

[patxshand]

Well, Angel was in love with Cordelia, no? Buffy might be THE one, but he was closer to Cordelia as a friend and a person more than Buffy, methinks. Also, that love/wound was fresher.

[warlockangel]

I just don't know. To me, I'm fine with what I saw with Buffy and Spike in Chosen. I would hate to see Joss or any writer ruin that moment. IMO they are on their way to ruining any previous magic that Angel and Buffy had with this Twilight stuff, but who knows.

I guess what I am saying is that I would love to see Buffy's reaction to Spike being alive but with her thing with Xander and the upcoming Twilight stuff, I think it best for Spike to stay out of her mess.

I think the Spike book is a good chance to see the character grow beyond Buffy andAngel. By next year you may be surprised and could care less about Buffy. At any rate, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the two. Joss pretty much confirmed that. How it's handled may not be to your liking, so be careful with what you wish for. But I could see a Spike and Buffy mini-series. Maybe IDW and Darkhorse could come together and to the mini like Marvel and DC did on a few books. That way, you don't have to worry about it messing with the others individual books.

[zamolxis]

Jan 14, 2010 15:30:42 GMT -5 patxshand said:

Well, Angel was in love with Cordelia, no? Buffy might be THE one, but he was closer to Cordelia as a friend and a person more than Buffy, methinks. Also, that love/wound was fresher.

Well, he only dreamed about Cordy and he lost his soul, so..

[Billie Erin]

Jan 14, 2010 18:28:36 GMT -5 warlockangel said:

IMO they are on their way to ruining any previous magic that Angel and Buffy had with this Twilight stuff, but who knows.

I don't think Joss really understands just how devoted some Bangel fans are- I listened to the DVD commentary over Chosen and he said something along the lines of "yeah we had to put Angel in the last episode to satisfy those people who strangely still think Buffy and Angel should be together" sorry for paraphrasing but I'm at school so don't have the DVD on me

[Kratos]

Jan 15, 2010 8:25:20 GMT -5 Billie Erin said:

I don't think Joss really understands just how devoted some Bangel fans are- I listened to the DVD commentary over Chosen and he said something along the lines of "yeah we had to put Angel in the last episode to satisfy those people who strangely still think Buffy and Angel should be together" sorry for paraphrasing but I'm at school so don't have the DVD on me

I think Joss fully understands that Spuffy and Bangel are the two biggest shippingfactions in the buffyverse. But will that stop him from telling the stories he wants to tell? No,never gonna happen.
And i thougth his commentary on the chosen episode was very funny, he mentioned how he gets lots of letters asking Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike to be put together, his number one ship? Buffy/Parker, that's the ship he's rooting for. The guy is a hoot

SPOILER: Click to show

I do think there is a possibilty that Twilight might be the end for bangel and i'm really happy for that because it means the story is moving forward. Things change and you can't keep on living in the past. I do think there is some small hope that Angel will still be redeemable in the end.
Whoever Joss puts Buffy with in the end, be it Spike,Xander,Riley,ect. I will be ok with it because Joss did it, no other writer should touch that issue.

I do hope that Buffy gets paired up before the absolute end(if season9,10 is the real final season) because i would want her to be in a loving happy relationship. It's been a real long time since she's been in one, i think the beginning of season5 with Riley was it. So yeah, i think she deserves a little carefree happyness.

[Billie Erin]

Jan 15, 2010 10:31:50 GMT -5 Kratos said:

I do hope that Buffy gets paired up before the absolute end(if season9,10 is the real final season) because i would want her to be in a loving happy relationship. It's been a real long time since she's been in one, i think the beginning of season5 with Riley was it. So yeah, i think she deserves a little carefree happyness.

I seriously hope it's not Riley- I just don't find him an engaging character.

I think it would have to be Spike or Angel if she did end up with anybody (Spike!Spike!Please be Spike!) because she would need a guy with a bit of an edge

[warlockangel]

Jan 15, 2010 11:14:49 GMT -5 Billie Erin said:

Jan 15, 2010 10:31:50 GMT -5 Kratos said:

I do hope that Buffy gets paired up before the absolute end(if season9,10 is the real final season) because i would want her to be in a loving happy relationship. It's been a real long time since she's been in one, i think the beginning of season5 with Riley was it. So yeah, i think she deserves a little carefree happyness.

I seriously hope it's not Riley- I just don't find him an engaging character.

I think it would have to be Spike or Angel if she did end up with anybody (Spike!Spike!Please be Spike!) because she would need a guy with a bit of an edge

Whoever Buffy gets with, a majority of the shipper fanbase will be angry. For example, if it's Angel, then Spuffies, Banders, Ruffies, etc., will be upset. The best thing to do is probably let her be with some unknown human.

[Kratos]

Jan 15, 2010 14:19:30 GMT -5 warlockangel said:

Whoever Buffy gets with, a majority of the shipper fanbase will be angry. For example, if it's Angel, then Spuffies, Banders, Ruffies, etc., will be upset. The best thing to do is probably let her be with some unknown human.

Fanbase be damned, we do not dictate the story, Joss does.
And if said fan really gets angry because whoever Buffy ends up with isn't who he/she wanted, causing him/her to stop reading. Then maybe that person was never a real fan of Buffy to begin with.
I think Buffy ending up with an unknown character would never work, he would never really know Buffy and it wouldn't resonate with the audience.

[warlockangel]

Jan 15, 2010 16:16:21 GMT -5 Kratos said:

Jan 15, 2010 14:19:30 GMT -5 warlockangel said:

Whoever Buffy gets with, a majority of the shipper fanbase will be angry. For example, if it's Angel, then Spuffies, Banders, Ruffies, etc., will be upset. The best thing to do is probably let her be with some unknown human.

Fanbase be damned, we do not dictate the story, Joss does.
And if said fan really gets angry because whoever Buffy ends up with isn't who he/she wanted, causing him/her to stop reading. Then maybe that person was never a real fan of Buffy to begin with.
I think Buffy ending up with an unknown character would never work, he would never really know Buffy and it wouldn't resonate with the audience.

I think we agree for the most part on this. I was responding to the poster who didn't want it to be Riley. Basically, you are going to always have a group of people who don't want it to be Angel, Spike, Riley or Xander. In the end, Joss should go with whatever organically works for the story.

You contradict yourself when you say that an unknown character wouldn't reonate with the audience. Should Joss go with what works for the story or for the audience? If he introduces a new character in the comic and develops that character, who's to say it wouldn't work. Buffy doesn't have to end up with one of the guys from her past. Joss could create a new character who moves her story along in the future.

This is why I don't have a problem with Spider or any other girl Spike meets. I'm sure he'll always hold Buffy on high, but it would be interesting to see what a new love for Spike would look like.

[Kratos]

Jan 15, 2010 16:24:34 GMT -5 warlockangel said:

You contradict yourself when you say that an unknown character wouldn't reonate with the audience. Should Joss go with what works for the story or for the audience? If he introduces a new character in the comic and develops that character, who's to say it wouldn't work. Buffy doesn't have to end up with one of the guys from her past. Joss could create a new character who moves her story along in the future..

Not really, i was talking about how the comics are going so far. It's way to late to introduce a new love-intrest that people will care as much for as Xander,Angel,Riley,ect.
Perhaps it could be done, but that story should have started much sooner and it would also need to focus a lot on this new character.

Jan 15, 2010 16:24:34 GMT -5 warlockangel said:

This is why I don't have a problem with Spider or any other girl Spike meets. I'm sure he'll always hold Buffy on high, but it would be interesting to see what a new love for Spike would look like.

Disagree, following the character from the show it would make little to no sense that he simply gets over Buffy. Even if like you say he'll always hold Buffy in high regard. There is still unfinished busniss left between those two. But sure, if we get confirmation that Buffy knows Spike is alive and is happy for him to move on. And Spike finds out that Rome Buffy wasn't really her and she isn't in a relationship and has no desire to start a relationship with her, wants her to be happy and move on. Then yes, i also think Spike should move on then, but only then.

[kaleidoscope]

Jan 15, 2010 16:24:34 GMT -5 warlockangel said:

This is why I don't have a problem with Spider or any other girl Spike meets. I'm sure he'll always hold Buffy on high, but it would be interesting to see what a new love for Spike would look like.

Of course the difficulty is that it is hard to follow a relationship like Spike and Buffy or even Angel and Buffy because those relationships are pretty epic. There's bound to be a resistance to new pairings because in effect, you're looking for a relationship for your favourite character that equals or exceeds what you felt for those pairings. It's a big challenge for the writers because they need time to develop new pairings and for us to be sufficiently open minded to give those pairings a chance - and it could take years in comic terms.

I'm sure that Spike will have some female company in Brian's new series, so we'll have to wait and see.

[Brian Lynch]

Female company? CHECK AND CHECK!