Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Apr 18, 2010 9:44:54 GMT -5
About Spike the "playa", he's a bit of a contradiction so I can understand the seperate views. Lindsey's comment that Spike wouldn't be sharing a bed doesn't really mesh with what we've seen of his relationship with Harmony. His past relationship with Harmony doesn't contradict anything, Lindsey was correct. Spike has never been a 'playa', currently terrible non-canon written comics not withstanding.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Apr 18, 2010 10:42:09 GMT -5
About Spike the "playa", he's a bit of a contradiction so I can understand the seperate views. Lindsey's comment that Spike wouldn't be sharing a bed doesn't really mesh with what we've seen of his relationship with Harmony. His past relationship with Harmony doesn't contradict anything, Lindsey was correct. Spike has never been a 'playa', currently terrible non-canon written comics not withstanding. I'm fine with the noble view of the character, but the dude used Harmony like a wank-sock even after he got a soul. I'd say that very much contradicts the implication of Lindsey's comment a couple of episodes later. Spike noticing the crappy bed in fact argues against it too; Lindsey's retort is grooming Spike to be more noble.
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Apr 18, 2010 16:41:22 GMT -5
I'm fine with the noble view of the character, but the dude used Harmony like a wank-sock even after he got a soul. I'd say that very much contradicts the implication of Lindsey's comment a couple of episodes later. Spike noticing the crappy bed in fact argues against it too; Lindsey's retort is grooming Spike to be more noble. I disagree, he never thought much of Harmony as a person not because she's female as a playa usually does, he just never really respected her. If he had a previous history of using women as a wank-sock or even his past girlfriends then i would agree but he didn't. He just got corporeal again and wanted to experience every physical joy that he could. Fighting, check kicking Angel's ass. Sex, check a woman he already has a history with. He didn't use Harmony, Harmony was fully aware that he cares nothing for her. I think Spike's comment seemed more of putting on a macho-mask. Lindsey corrects him and Spike doesn't refute it and his actions the rest of the season fall in with Lindsey's correct idea concerning Spike's love life which is non-excistant.
|
|
|
Post by winterdreamer on Apr 18, 2010 17:44:22 GMT -5
Must you get a shot in at the current Angel comic art at EVERY opening? Because the dead horse, its starting to reek.....
The whole 'Spike and his sex(un)life' thing always struck me as having a few sides. Yes, I suspect he is monogamous while in a relationship, its been proved he fixates pretty strongly on his 'significant other' to the exclusion of others. (Although I suspect that with Dru he probably, ah....'played with his food'.) While not enjoying a relationship then yeah, I suspect he is a bit of a 'playa'.....but not a terribly harmful one. I dont see post-soul Spike doing anything that would emotionaly traumatise anyone....but yeah, I supect he likes getting a regular leg over. So many people equate consensual, casual sex as 'zomg, evil slutty behavior!'. I just figure he goes out and has some fun, doesn't mean he's regressed, corrupt or doesn't love Buffy. Spike's a pretty outgoing, tactile guy with an obvious kinky side ~ so yeah, I dont figure he joins Angel every day for a 'brood session' every night, suspect he goes out, gets pissed, starts fights he cant win & plays a bit of'slap and tickle' with a willing lady.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Apr 18, 2010 18:07:55 GMT -5
I'm fine with the noble view of the character, but the dude used Harmony like a wank-sock even after he got a soul. I'd say that very much contradicts the implication of Lindsey's comment a couple of episodes later. Spike noticing the crappy bed in fact argues against it too; Lindsey's retort is grooming Spike to be more noble. I disagree, he never thought much of Harmony as a person not because she's female as a playa usually does, he just never really respected her. If he had a previous history of using women as a wank-sock or even his past girlfriends then i would agree but he didn't. He just got corporeal again and wanted to experience every physical joy that he could. Fighting, check kicking Angel's ass. Sex, check a woman he already has a history with. He didn't use Harmony, Harmony was fully aware that he cares nothing for her. I think Spike's comment seemed more of putting on a macho-mask. Lindsey corrects him and Spike doesn't refute it and his actions the rest of the season fall in with Lindsey's correct idea concerning Spike's love life which is non-excistant. I'm sorry but how does Spike having no respect for Harmony help to change my opinion? We don't see him shag anyone else in season 5, but he makes plenty of passes at Fred and apparently the women he saves whilst playing Angel. I said there were reasons for both views and stand by that. The whole 'Spike and his sex(un)life' thing always struck me as having a few sides. Yes, I suspect he is monogamous while in a relationship, its been proved he fixates pretty strongly on his 'significant other' to the exclusion of others. (Although I suspect that with Dru he probably, ah....'played with his food'.) While not enjoying a relationship then yeah, I suspect he is a bit of a 'playa'.....but not a terribly harmful one. I dont see post-soul Spike doing anything that would emotionaly traumatise anyone....but yeah, I supect he likes getting a regular leg over. So many people equate consensual, casual sex as 'zomg, evil slutty behavior!'. I just figure he goes out and has some fun, doesn't mean he's regressed, corrupt or doesn't love Buffy. Spike's a pretty outgoing, tactile guy with an obvious kinky side ~ so yeah, I dont figure he joins Angel every day for a 'brood session' every night, suspect he goes out, gets pissed, starts fights he cant win & plays a bit of'slap and tickle' with a willing lady. Yeah I think that about sums him up for me. He's in a new place post-Buffy.
|
|
|
Post by kaleidoscope on Apr 19, 2010 3:17:12 GMT -5
I dont see post-soul Spike doing anything that would emotionaly traumatise anyone....but yeah, I supect he likes getting a regular leg over. So many people equate consensual, casual sex as 'zomg, evil slutty behavior!'. I just figure he goes out and has some fun, doesn't mean he's regressed, corrupt or doesn't love Buffy. I see your pov, and I would say that no, there's nothing wrong with Spike having a healthy physical appetite and the comics showing him having consensual casual sex. But I think the discussion has been raised by the way Spike is behaving in the current Bill Willlingham run where getting sex and thinking about sex seem to be the only thing that motivates him. We've never seen him so tunnel visioned before so imho it counts as being ooc. I know that Bill is playing it all for laughs and we probably aren't meant to take it too seriously, but the stuff in issue 31 with Felicia was rather nasty and off-putting. Spike can be a jerk, I agree, but those scenes were him being once, twice, three times a jerk and that I have a problem with, unless we have a deep plot point coming up. I don't want to be negative about the current main series of Angel comics but I am having difficulty with some of Bill's characterisations at the moment. I can't wait for Brian's Spike series to start. I suppose that it will be July/August at the earliest now. It seems a long wait, but I'm reckoning we're gonna get comic gold !
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Apr 19, 2010 5:24:58 GMT -5
Must you get a shot in at the current Angel comic art at EVERY opening? Because the dead horse, its starting to reek..... Yes, i do. If it's crap then i'm gonna say it's crap. No, you only suspect a lot. And yes, someone follows the sequence of actions you think Spike does, it's kinda slutty, especially if the person does it multiple times per week. Spike has never been a 'slut', Angel the eunich brood king got more action that season then Spike did, which says more then enough. I'm sorry but how does Spike having no respect for Harmony help to change my opinion? We don't see him shag anyone else in season 5, but he makes plenty of passes at Fred and apparently the women he saves whilst playing Angel. I said there were reasons for both views and stand by that. I don't care about changing your opinion, i just don't agree with it. Ah, so now harmless flirting is proof of him wanting to shag everything. My god here's a new concept, maybe he likes Fred as a friend and not everything has a hidden subtext. Spike cared for Fred, she was the only one out of the group to accept him right off the bat and helped save him. Which is why he's so broken too when they lose her, he lost a friend. If Spike had been interested in her that way then he would have made his move, he had plenty of time before she hooked up with Wesley. Spike having no respect for Harmony matters because you take a scene totally out of context without looking into why he does the things did. There is a reason why he chose Harmony(past history,knew that he could easily convince her) and why just then(just got corporeal), he has never been shown to out of the blue want to shag anyone, never. There's always a reason. I already covered that supposed 'pass' he made to the woman he saved. In the commentary during the scene when he saves the man and woman it was said that originally Spike would ask them to go out for a drink, hang out. Does this mean that Spike wanted to shag both of them? No, Spike likes company. We have factual evidence of him wanting company in the past(beginning of season7, he goes out and talks to women, wanting a connection), nothing was ever said about Spike wanting to shag any of them. That's just your own opinion which isn't validated by canon.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Apr 19, 2010 10:09:55 GMT -5
Ah, so now harmless flirting is proof of him wanting to shag everything. Nice straw man there. My god here's a new concept, maybe he likes Fred as a friend and not everything has a hidden subtext. That really is a new concept. Flirting with no subtext not being flirting, lol. Spike cared for Fred, she was the only one out of the group to accept him right off the bat and helped save him. Which is why he's so broken too when they lose her, he lost a friend. If Spike had been interested in her that way then he would have made his move, he had plenty of time before she hooked up with Wesley. I don't disagree with that. Fred was utterly uninterested from the start though, so it doesn't really say much about what Spike might have done. Spike having no respect for Harmony matters because you take a scene totally out of context without looking into why he does the things did. There is a reason why he chose Harmony(past history,knew that he could easily convince her) and why just then(just got corporeal), he has never been shown to out of the blue want to shag anyone, never. There's always a reason. That is NOT an acceptable reason. This is what spawns people thinking he gets about, which is a reasonable assumption. It's natural to suppose Spike would be shagging other people off-screen if he will do it so casually with Harmony just because he can again. I already covered that supposed 'pass' he made to the woman he saved. In the commentary during the scene when he saves the man and woman it was said that originally Spike would ask them to go out for a drink, hang out. Does this mean that Spike wanted to shag both of them? No, Spike likes company. We have factual evidence of him wanting company in the past(beginning of season7, he goes out and talks to women, wanting a connection), nothing was ever said about Spike wanting to shag any of them. That's just your own opinion which isn't validated by canon. And it's your own opinion that Spike invites girls to come back to his for drinks and does nothing more. Isn't validated by canon but it's not invalidated either.
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Apr 19, 2010 10:53:46 GMT -5
That really is a new concept. Flirting with no subtext not being flirting, lol. Yes when someone flirts it does not automaticlly mean that they want to have sex with the person(s) they are fliriting with. Many view flirting as a fun innocent pass time. I think Fred seemed more then receptive to Spike's flirting and they would have given it an honest shot if both of them were interested but neither Fred or Spike were. Yes it is, context matters. Taking one action out of a long journey makes it unclear how that action came to be. We have only one example of Spike casually doing what he did with Harmony and for that there are reasons. One time does not constitute a pattern.No, it's not. My opinion is supported by canon, yours isn't. It is factual that he picked up girls and talked with them(season7) because he couldn't talk to Buffy. Unlike you i don't make up my own stories and 'assume' what i believe to have happend.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 19, 2010 11:59:02 GMT -5
Please stick to arguing textual material, and cease making personal inferences. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Apr 19, 2010 13:36:31 GMT -5
I think Fred seemed more then receptive to Spike's flirting and they would have given it an honest shot if both of them were interested but neither Fred or Spike were. She told her friends she wasn't falling for his schtick, nothing ever said Spike wouldn't go for it if she did. He did like her a lot after all. Yes it is, context matters. Taking one action out of a long journey makes it unclear how that action came to be. We have only one example of Spike casually doing what he did with Harmony and for that there are reasons. One time does not constitute a pattern. The context doesn't affect my point. He was womanising, the thing you say he doesn't do. He did, and from that and the many instances of flirting people draws conclusions about his nature. No, it's not. My opinion is supported by canon, yours isn't. It is factual that he picked up girls and talked with them(season7) because he couldn't talk to Buffy. Unlike you i don't make up my own stories and 'assume' what i believe to have happend. Oh come on. Your view isn't supported by "canon". The factual events you refer to are the times Spike met up with girls in clubs and MURDERED them and then his blurry accounts to Buffy that are followed by frustrated statements like "I don't remember!" You're assuming his mental state then is a great source of character information because it suits your view, despite the fact that he is newly resouled, slightly crazy and under the control of an evil force, AND you're giving me a lecture on how important context is haha. I don't even disagree entirely on your view. Spike is elements of boths sides, that's why he's interesting.
|
|
Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
"I picked up a hitchhiker. You've got to when you hit them."[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,536
|
Post by Billie Erin on Apr 19, 2010 13:50:20 GMT -5
Spike is a man who can compartmentalise, he can focus physically on women like Harmony whilst still being emotionally loyal to Buffy and Fred. I don't believe that he's a slut, I do believe that he can be a bit of a womansier sometimes but in all honesty what else does he have to do on a Saturday night?
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Apr 20, 2010 3:08:17 GMT -5
She told her friends she wasn't falling for his schtick, nothing ever said Spike wouldn't go for it if she did. He did like her a lot after all. In all this time we've only seen him go after two women that he was in love with. Dru and Buffy. Buffy being the only real example we can use. Spike activaly pursued her, he didn't care that she was with Riley or that she was disgusted by him. If Spike wants to be with someone then he'll give his best and try to convince her to be with him. He never stated anything about wanting to be with Fred or being in love with her. And Fred equally liked Spike, she believed in him as a champion and a person. By your logic it means she's ready to mate with him. He likes to do some harmless flirting. You said it yourself 'draw conclusions' which makes it false. We have him flirting which does not equal shagging 3 girls per week. Actually it is, i stated what happend based on the show and text. You assume or draw conclusions. Yes, but from recently soulled Spike's point of view, he went out and talked to the ladies then he would black-out(First taking over) kill the women and bury them. Spike was innocent, he thought that that was how having a soul was supposed to be, it never crossed his mind that something was wrong. Everything checked out with Spike's story in the end. I already said that if there was actual evidence to support your theory then one can assume. But the fact of the matter is, there isn't. There isn't a single account in either shows of Spike picking up a girl at a bar and taking her home to have sex with, nothing.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Apr 20, 2010 9:17:25 GMT -5
You're right, I'm wrong and totally lying. Spike only had casual sex once on-screen and obviously wouldn't do it again despite having no regrets about it. I see the light, your work is done; now you're free to move on to another thread and (hopefully) another member who says there could be more than one perspective on a complicated character.
|
|
|
Post by winterdreamer on Apr 20, 2010 19:52:34 GMT -5
You're right, I'm wrong and totally lying. Spike only had casual sex once on-screen and obviously wouldn't do it again despite having no regrets about it. I see the light, your work is done; now you're free to move on to another thread and (hopefully) another member who says there could be more than one perspective on a complicated character. Hahahaha!
|
|
Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
|
Post by Kratos on Apr 21, 2010 9:40:20 GMT -5
You're right, I'm wrong and totally lying. Spike only had casual sex once on-screen and obviously wouldn't do it again despite having no regrets about it. I see the light, your work is done; now you're free to move on to another thread and (hopefully) another member who says there could be more than one perspective on a complicated character. Yes, that's a very mature attitude. You can't give me any valid counter-arguements to prove your point so your last resort is trying to act 'cool'. Good job. And fyi that wasn't what you were saying. Hahahaha! Look, you've got a fan.
|
|
|
Post by wenxina on Apr 21, 2010 10:05:03 GMT -5
I'm issuing my last warning about being civil towards each other. If you choose to ignore it, I will issue warning meters next.
|
|
BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
|
Post by BlueJay on Apr 21, 2010 13:37:32 GMT -5
Is there any word on when the series starts? I can't find any solicits on Spike #1
|
|
|
Post by Wyndam on Apr 21, 2010 13:41:22 GMT -5
Not before August (we have solicits up to July).
|
|
|
Post by winterdreamer on Apr 21, 2010 22:32:19 GMT -5
I'm issuing my last warning about being civil towards each other. If you choose to ignore it, I will issue warning meters next. I do apologize for my part in that, I seem to forget that this is NOT the Deviant Art forums & I do need to remember to rein in the snark. To Kratos, my apologies as well, whatever differences I may have, there was no need to interject in such an....immature fashion.
|
|