"Magic As Drugs" in Season 6

[astranger]

Danner is right, and I agree with the points Danner has made. I was talking about Giles abandoning Buffy, when things were clearly going wrong, and he'd acknowledged so.

Now, there is a way he could have been written out, without it looking like abandonment. Maybe the council could have called him and forced him to return to England for some reason. And this would fit better with the seasons supposed theme.

midwesternwatcher, the original gist I got, was that Willow's problem was not addiction, but her own personal lust for power and control. The drug connection was not obvious or the logical conclusion of the arc. The logical conclusion was that Willow was heading into darkness because of the darkness that was inherently in her (and by extension, humanity), which I think is far more resonating and profound than magic addiction.

[Jaz ♀♀]

I hated the "magic as drugs" metaphor. I found it OOC for Willow to become a "junkie". Magical or otherwise. I didn't find it a problem that the writers made an arc so obvious to the viewer saying "drugs are bad!....I had a problem with them using that metaphor/arc on Willow.

Drugs and power are two complete different things. Like what astranger said, Willow's problem was not addiction, but wanting power and control. Knowledge is power. It's been shown throughout the seasons that Willow loves to learn. From being a "book-worm" to a "computer whisperer" to a "bad ass wicca", whatever comes her way she can be great at it. She's a genius who can kick your ass. That's power.

The "junkie Willow" has no real power, only the euphoric feeling of power. (I'm basing that off on the scenes when she's at Racks place and clearly looks high and is floating on the ceiling) That scene just reminds me of a junkie at a crack house drugged up and out of their mind twitching in a corner. And I find it completely OOC for Willow to do that to herself when she can have and be the real deal. She's smarter than that.

I would have liked to have seen the writers present differently her struggle with the control of real power. Dark power. The power that slowly dehumanizes her soul til there's nothing left. Also where she is aware of it and can't use the "I was high, so I wasn't thinking straight" excuse. That would have been a great arc and better character growth for her instead of the "character growth" she got stuck with: the "I've hit rock bottom and lost everything because I became i'm a magic-junkie!....but i've learned my lesson and will never do that again. I swear."

I just can't appreciate the "magic/drug addiction" story arc because it was a lame character move on Willow IMO when the writers could have done so much more for her character and her real problem: power.



That's my two cents. I hope all that made sense....i know i used the word "power" a lot. lol

[nl197]

^^Powerful post.

[midwesternwatcher]

Being emotionally supportive, that can also backfire. There's even a word for it psychobabble.

Don't forget that Giles did give Buffy money. We don't know how much, but apparently enough to make a difference. Giving money like that is always dangerous to a relationship.

I'm reading a piece of fanfic called "The Box," part of a series called "Dark Before Dawn," where Buffy says, "The money from Giles has almost run out, and I can't ask him for more." We don't see her saying or thinking that on the TV screen, but it's inevitable, isn't it? The question of the second (maybe) gift always comes up.

Going back to the main point. I keep hearing that the "magic as drugs" metaphor is too obvious. There are other metaphors in the show that are just as obvious. For instance, Angel represents a recovering alcoholic. How can anyone miss that?

[nl197]

Oct 4, 2010 19:48:37 GMT -5 midwesternwatcher said:

Going back to the main point. I keep hearing that the "magic as drugs" metaphor is too obvious. There are other metaphors in the show that are just as obvious. For instance, Angel represents a recovering alcoholic. How can anyone miss that?

Because it wasn't as obvious?

Seriously, I didn't once notice that until it was blatantly pointed out in a season 1 DVD featurette, so that goes to show how things just go right over my head when it comes to metaphors and deeper meanings and all of it.

[astranger]

I have never ever, heard anyone describe Angel as a recovering Alcoholic. It seems to me that if this is true, its is far from obvious.

It was always about the monster within to me. And that seems to be one of the main themes throughout both Buffy and Angel. The idea that within humanity might be something as evil as the monsters they fight. Even the nature of the Slayer fits this, such as Faith as Buffy's shadow, Angel always afraid of his demons, Giles' past, even the Trio, and of course Holtz. Basically the idea that heroes walk a narrow path not to far from the villains.

And this would have worked for Willow too. Instead this was ignored in favour of magic addiction.

[midwesternwatcher]

I'll try again. In "The Pack," 1.6, the hyenas represent school bullies. Is that obvious enough?

About the power issue ... I'm about 80% on board here. Definitely Willow has a lust for power, and it comes front and center in season 6. We see it in the first scene of the first episode (Willow standing on top of a tomb, directing her troops telepathically). Later, when Willow argues with Tara, Tara's objection is not "you're getting hooked on magic as if on a drug," but "you're using too much magic" because it's the easy way to achieve quick results. Willow uses this power on Tara, which causes the breakup.

The power theme is indeed developed. But some of you, as I understand it, think the same line of development should've continued. That sounds good. But I need to hear some more concrete ideas. How would she have used the power she has? I can imagine many answers, but they all lead into messy territory, where many aspects of the story get lost.

If you don't get what I'm talking about, try it. I don't want to suggest possibilities for fear of putting words into somebody's mouth. I want somebody else to do it.

But let's give a small example of the problem in another context. In "The Witch," 1.3, Amy's mother uses magic to take over Amy's body. Does that make sense? If she wants to relive her glory days as a cheerleader, why not take over the body of Amber, the super cheerleader? For that matter, why stop at cheerleading? Why not take over the body of, say, Heidi Klum? The answer is that the episode is about parents being controlling, trying to live vicariously through their children. That subtext would be lost if we followed the logic of literal magic and escaped from the context of the parent-child relationship.

An incidental question. Have any of you ever wondered why Amy's mother didn't do that stuff? I'll bet you didn't, because at some level you knew that the story was about controlling parents. Was that metaphor obvious enough?

If Willow had started doing "rule the world" stuff, the same sort of thing would've happened. The story arc would've lost its relevance to the lives of real young adults. Maybe there's some way around that, but so far I don't see it.

Here's something that, unless I missed something, no one has mentioned yet. There is a parallelism in season 6 between Willow's problem with magic and Buffy's involvement with Spike. Buffy feels she must stay away from Spike, but she can't. Unless magic is a metaphor for drugs, I don't see any way to maintain that correspondence. Any suggestions?

[midwesternwatcher]

Oct 4, 2010 20:20:40 GMT -5 astranger said:

I have never ever, heard anyone describe Angel as a recovering Alcoholic. It seems to me that if this is true, its is far from obvious.

It was always about the monster within to me. And that seems to be one of the main themes throughout both Buffy and Angel. The idea that within humanity might be something as evil as the monsters they fight. Even the nature of the Slayer fits this, such as Faith as Buffy's shadow, Angel always afraid of his demons, Giles' past, even the Trio, and of course Holtz. Basically the idea that heroes walk a narrow path not to far from the villains.

And this would have worked for Willow too. Instead this was ignored in favour of magic addiction.

Last August, I attended a gathering of members of the All Things Philosophical Board. There were seven other long-time, deeply committed Buffy fans there. I told them I had heard that Angel represented a recovering alcoholic, but I was hoping for a bibliographic reference. I asked if they could tell me one.

Every one of them gave the same answer. This idea needs no bibliographic reference, because it is commonly received wisdom. None of them could remember when they realized this, because it was so long ago.

You say it's about the monster within? That's really any different, just the same idea in a slightly different metaphorical garb.

It was the same with me. When I first saw Angel, I described him as a man who had suffered a permanent injury to his self-respect, so that he no longer trusted himself. You could also describe him as the indispensable man with the problematical past, like J Robert Oppenheimer.

But when I head Kelly Manners describe him as a recovering alcoholic, I knew immediately that I agreed with him. Kelly was describing the same thing I had in mind, only using a slightly different vocabulary.

And what you say is not really different from what I say, or what Kelly Manners says. We all agree. The metaphor is obvious.

[astranger]

I'll try again. In "The Pack," 1.6, the hyenas represent school bullies. Is that obvious enough?

Maybe not. The hyenas don't represent necessarily represent School Bullies. They could represent peer pressure. And the best metaphors are multi-layered. And The Pack is not the best liked episode in the series. I will talk more about metaphors later.

About the power issue ... I'm about 80% on board here. Definitely Willow has a lust for power, and it comes front and center in season 6. We see it in the first scene of the first episode (Willow standing on top of a tomb, directing her troops telepathically). Later, when Willow argues with Tara, Tara's objection is not "you're getting hooked on magic as if on a drug," but "you're using too much magic" because it's the easy way to achieve quick results. Willow uses this power on Tara, which causes the breakup.
The power theme is indeed developed. But some of you, as I understand it, think the same line of development should've continued. That sounds good. But I need to hear some more concrete ideas. How would she have used the power she has? I can imagine many answers, but they all lead into messy territory, where many aspects of the story get lost.

If you don't get what I'm talking about, try it. I don't want to suggest possibilities for fear of putting words into somebody's mouth. I want somebody else to do it.

This is exactly what people would seem to prefer, and this is also why the drugs metaphor is so jarring. Season 6 started of with the power metaphor and then left it behind. As for developing any alternate idea's. This would be hard, but it would be doable. However one would have to discard all episodes after Tabula Rasa in order to do it and take season 6 in a new direction. What I would do, is look at making Amy into the main Villain, slowly drawing Willow into the dark use of magic, rather than Rack's magic high. We could even see Amy hijack the trio. Nor does Dark Willow have to destroy the world, as not every enemy has to be that kind of threat. It could come down to a confrontation between Tara (good) and Amy (evil).

Now, this is what I cooked up after 5 minutes of thought. I can't go any deeper, because it would be too much for this post and because I haven't thought that far ahead.

But let's give a small example of the problem in another context. In "The Witch," 1.3, Amy's mother uses magic to take over Amy's body. Does that make sense? If she wants to relive her glory days as a cheerleader, why not take over the body of Amber, the super cheerleader? For that matter, why stop at cheerleading? Why not take over the body of, say, Heidi Klum? The answer is that the episode is about parents being controlling, trying to live vicariously through their children. That subtext would be lost if we followed the logic of literal magic and escaped from the context of the parent-child relationship.

Convenience perhaps? Does Amy's mum even know about Amber? Does she care about her skill? And you could argue that the metaphor is that Amy's mum is stuck in the past and she was never able to move forward from high school. Probably not, but it is worth a look. We simply don't know enough about Amy's mum to make these kind of calls.

If Willow had started doing "rule the world" stuff, the same sort of thing would've happened. The story arc would've lost its relevance to the lives of real young adults. Maybe there's some way around that, but so far I don't see it.

You are assuming that Season 6 resonated with young adults. From the backlash I would say not.

Here's something that, unless I missed something, no one has mentioned yet. There is a parallelism in season 6 between Willow's problem with magic and Buffy's involvement with Spike. Buffy feels she must stay away from Spike, but she can't. Unless magic is a metaphor for drugs, I don't see any way to maintain that correspondence. Any suggestions?

I don't get this? I didn't see any correspondence between the two and I don't see why there has to be. In fact I think the opposite, that the strands should be separate, maybe intertwined but not mirrors.

See, the thing about all this is that the proof is in the reception. You can quote any episodic metaphor you want, but this does not change that Season 6 is generally disliked. Angel turning evil, was a metaphor, but I haven't heard much complaint about it, but tell me how that matters to Willow's arc in Season 6? How does metaphors there impact on the quality of the metaphor in a later season. In fact doesn't the poor reception of this metaphor prove that it was badly handled? A badly handled metaphor is a badly handled metaphor regardless of how subtle it is. Subtlety is not the only measure or fact of concern. Ultimately Willows plot line was badly executed, it introduced an effect not seen before (magic addiction), switched its direction, required Willow to drop a couple of Standard Deviations on her IQ test and needed her friends to ignore her (I'm looking at you Giles).

It's not just the metaphor, its everything that went wrong along with it.

[midwesternwatcher]

From what you say about "The Pack," or "The Witch," I just have to figure you haven't either of these episodes in a long time.

In "The Pack," the correspondence between the hyenas and the bullies is reiterated and emphasized time and again. The bullies gradually lose the power of speech, begin to sleep outside, eat raw meat. No effort is spared to make it plain.

In "The Witch," Catherine makes Amber catch on fire. Her method involves contagious magic. Although we don't see it, Catherine must have somehow obtained something personal to Amber, perhaps a lock of hair. I think Catherine knows who Amber is. But that is not so important. If Catherine can do these tricks on Amber, and Cordelia, and Buffy, she can do them to anyone, and that has possibilities far beyond the Sunnydale High School cheerleading squad. Those possibilities are obvious once you think of them, but we don't think of them. Why? Because we know that the episode is about parents reliving their youth through their children.

Apparently you haven't seen season 6 recently either. Giles was long gone to England by the time the "magic as drugs" metaphor surfaced in "Wrecked," for one thing. As for the correspondence, there are several scenes where Buffy is talking about Willow, and about herself at the same time, as the audience should understand but the other characters do not.

Here's the most obvious one, from the script of "Wrecked," 6.10, (that's the controversial one) about 15 minutes in:

"BUFFY
"I didn't say that, I just...

"Buffy, agitated, continues - and as she works herself up, it becomes clear that she's talking as much about herself as she is about Willow.

"BUFFY (cont'd)
I just think we should stop talking
about Willow this way. Okay, she's
going through something. But we're
not her, you know? I mean, maybe she
has reasons she's acting this way...
And what if she has crossed a line?
We all do stuff. Stupid stuff. And,
then we learn. We learn and we don't
do it again. I mean, really, who are
we to be all judgey?

"Buffy stops - realizing that she's been in monologue mode. Anya and Xander watching her, a little perplexed at her outburst."

It's actually in the script notes that she's talking as much about herself as about Willow.

This is also from Wrecked, very near the end, when Buffy and Willow are talking in Willow's room after the accident:

WILLOW (cont'd)
But it's not going to happen again.
I promise. No more spells. I'm
finished.

Buffy nods. Agreeing as much for herself, as for Willow.

BUFFY
Good. I think it's right. To give
it up. No matter how great it feels-

WILLOW
It's not worth it. Not if it messes with
the people I love.
(then)
I mean, it'll be hard. But I can do
it. I know I can.

BUFFY
Hard - but not impossible. We'll be
here for each other.

WILLOW
Totally. And magic wasn't all great.
I mean, I won't miss the nose bleeds
and the headaches and stuff.

BUFFY
Right.

WILLOW
Or keeping stinky yak cheese in my
bra.
(off Buffy's look)
Don't ask.

BUFFY
Well, see, I don't have to now.

WILLOW
'Cause it's over.

BUFFY
Exactly. It's over. From now on it's
goodbye impulse - hello impulse
control.

Again, notice the script notes: "Agreeing as much for herself, as for Willow."

Do you see it now? Go back and watch those scenes. They are wonderfully effective.

Your suggestions for an alternate season 6 are interesting. I can't prove that the choices the writers made were the best possible, and I wouldn't try, because I don't believe it. But you haven't thought this out yet.

First of all, how would this alternate story end? Season 6 as written is keyed toward Xander saving the world by talking Willow out of killing herself (or ending the world if you insist). I don't like that last episode, for several reasons, and I wouldn't mind seeing another ending. But what? Would Willow destroy herself, or be destroyed? Or would she be redeemed? How? That isn't a rhetorical question.

But my real concern is somewhere else. When Willow and Amy go to the Bronze, they change people into other people (men into women, for example), and change the way people think and behave (making the boys dance, or Amy's love spell on the unnamed lesbian). Suppose they had done something similar in Washington DC, or Beijing? They could've caused a nuclear war or prevented one, unified North and South Korea, the list goes on. Then the story would no longer have been about the lives of young adults. Am I clearer now? These possibilities are so obvious and seductive, once you think of them, that the only solution is never to think of them. I guess we in the fandom have done a good job of that.

Let me put it in the form of a question. Suppose we're after Tabula Rasa, and after the escapade at the Bronze. We want Willow to go even further down the path of power madness. What does she do next?

Finally, we have to remember Tara. It seems to me that if Willow is going to go much further down the power trip path than she went that night with Amy, then she would have to say, "I don't need Tara anymore, I'm so big and important I can get anybody or everybody, who cares about her?" That's another one of those impossible possibilities.

[Scarygothgirl]

Oct 3, 2010 23:04:58 GMT -5 Jaz ♀♀ said:

I would have liked to have seen the writers present differently her struggle with the control of real power. Dark power. The power that slowly dehumanizes her soul til there's nothing left. Also where she is aware of it and can't use the "I was high, so I wasn't thinking straight" excuse. That would have been a great arc and better character growth for her instead of the "character growth" she got stuck with: the "I've hit rock bottom and lost everything because I became i'm a magic-junkie!....but i've learned my lesson and will never do that again. I swear."

I'll probably get some hate for saying this, but I think this was what they were going for with Warren. It's part of the appeal of his character development and I really enjoy how that unfolds. Warren also has a clear longing for power, which is obvious from his making robots to serve him, controlling of Andrew and Jonathon, mind control with Katrina etc.

[jtmaster13]

I agree with Scarygothgirl on that. It does seem like they were doing the whole struggle for dark power with Warren. You can so easily see the change in Warren's character throughout season 6. In the beginning it's funny and light, but his character gets extremely dark towards the end.

[henzINNIT]

I hated it, and it ruined the biggest event of the season in Willow's fall.

[astranger]

From what you say about "The Pack," or "The Witch," I just have to figure you haven't either of these episodes in a long time.

In "The Pack," the correspondence between the hyenas and the bullies is reiterated and emphasized time and again. The bullies gradually lose the power of speech, begin to sleep outside, eat raw meat. No effort is spared to make it plain.

In "The Witch," Catherine makes Amber catch on fire. Her method involves contagious magic. Although we don't see it, Catherine must have somehow obtained something personal to Amber, perhaps a lock of hair. I think Catherine knows who Amber is. But that is not so important. If Catherine can do these tricks on Amber, and Cordelia, and Buffy, she can do them to anyone, and that has possibilities far beyond the Sunnydale High School cheerleading squad. Those possibilities are obvious once you think of them, but we don't think of them. Why? Because we know that the episode is about parents reliving their youth through their children.

The Pack and The Witch are poorer episodes from the start of the show, before it hit its stride. They are not necessarily representative of later seasons (Giles states that in The Witch was the first time he'd used magic). And with The Witch, I meant before casting the spell to take over Amy's body. Besides, there are other problems there, like how do you fake Amber's mannerisms, or from freaking out when she finds she has a new body? Would she move into Amber's house to continue the illusion? What about leaving her spells behind? Would she bring them with her? Would this risk getting discovered. It is far simpler to just take over her daughter who is right there, than risk being discovered. It is just easier to take over your own daughter, due to proximity and knowledge of her habits.

Apparently you haven't seen season 6 recently either. Giles was long gone to England by the time the "magic as drugs" metaphor surfaced in "Wrecked," for one thing. As for the correspondence, there are several scenes where Buffy is talking about Willow, and about herself at the same time, as the audience should understand but the other characters do not.

1st of all, yes, Giles was gone by the time the Drug metaphor hit. But he was present when Willow was clearly abusing her power. Remember? 'You rank arrogant amateur?' Willows problems started long before Rack and Amy. They even started before Buffy's resurrection, maybe even since Season 4 or before. Yet Giles said nothing when he had the chance.

And for Buffy, I got the impression that Buffy wasn't really understanding at all, she was just having an epiphany at that moment. It doesn't mean there is any parallelism between the rest of their stories. She might be agreeing in principle, but this doesn't mean that the stories have any parity (right word?).

Your suggestions for an alternate season 6 are interesting. I can't prove that the choices the writers made were the best possible, and I wouldn't try, because I don't believe it. But you haven't thought this out yet.

Of course I haven't. It took me 5 minutes to come up with an idea. It would take a lot longer to come up with a story, but that isn't the aim of this debate. We should not ask 'what should happen' and ask 'how do we understand what did happen' or we'll just get bogged down talking about things that neither of us fully understand.

First of all, how would this alternate story end? Season 6 as written is keyed toward Xander saving the world by talking Willow out of killing herself (or ending the world if you insist). I don't like that last episode, for several reasons, and I wouldn't mind seeing another ending. But what? Would Willow destroy herself, or be destroyed? Or would she be redeemed? How? That isn't a rhetorical question.

Why does it have to end this way. Your still thinking with the Season 6 conclusion in mind. You're seeing it as a destination that has to be reached. But in a re-write, it would no longer exist. In fact the Apocalypse from nowhere is another reason why Willows storyline was disliked. I mean, who just leaves a Temple of DOOM just lying around like that?

Let me put it in the form of a question. Suppose we're after Tabula Rasa, and after the escapade at the Bronze. We want Willow to go even further down the path of power madness. What does she do next?

No, no escapade at the Bronze. The reset would come directly after Tabula Rasa, so it would not happen. Once again, you still seem to think that certain plot events have to be reached and certain processes undergone, but if a re-write did occur, they would not matter.

And now I see what has happened here. The topic has gone off into the hypothetical, rather than the actual. Now while I would be happy to join you in discussing this elsewhere, this is not really the place for it. Let us deal with analysis of what really happened, or were not discussing season 6 anymore.

I will re-iterate. Metaphors have always been a part of Buffy, but in most cases they are supported by good writing and story arcs that support it. Yes, a heavy handed metaphor is a bad thing, but it is not the only bad thing that can happen to a metaphor. Poor plot support can sink a metaphor too. As well as logical inconsistencies to just being a downright bad metaphor. As pointed out earlier for Willows drug magic metaphor to work it requires the derailment of several characters (including Amy!) and the introduction of new effects not yet seen or commented on. It also has no support from the other plot lines. This is what needs to be discussed, not metaphors on other episodes, or hypothetical what iffs? Focus on the quality of this one.

[midwesternwatcher]

My friend, I'm afraid we can't avoid thinking of "what might have been," if we want to understand why the writers made the choices they did.

Let's start with the "parallelism." If you read the script, or watch the show, you'll see that Buffy was talking simultaneously about Willow's problem and her own. Outwardly, she's talking about Willow's inability to give up magic. Inwardly, she's talking about her own inability to give up Spike. Without the "magic as drugs" metaphor, we could not have had those moments. And those moments were beautiful, were they not?

I absolutely did not say that season 6 had to end in any particular way. The way it did end, with Xander talking Willow out of killing herself, was not very good, in my opinion. It was the weakest ending of any season, and one of the things about season 6 that I really do gripe about. If you can suggest another ending, more power to you! But remember, there must be an ending.

Let me state again the problem that I foresee, the problem that, I believe, led the writers to choose the "magic as drugs" metaphor.

Shall we stop at Tabula Rasa? All good and well. At this point, Willow has already pulled some bodacious spells, bringing back the dead, screwing with peoples' minds. What does she do for an encore? She hasn't yet reached a crisis. She must go further down the "magic road" before she can turn back. What happens next?

Apparently you want to get rid of Smashed. I hope you'd allow us at least to keep the Buffy-Spike love scene, once voted the sexiest scene in the history of television, and the basis for the most-loved ship in our verse. But you want to get rid of the episode at the Bronze. I don't really see why, since it could happen without Rack, but OK. Good and well. Still Willow has to go somewhere.

Now here's the problem. What next step can she take that won't exceed the limits of the theme? Her actions and situation have to say something about the lives of young adults, so they have to stay on a fairly small scale. We have to stop her from doing magic before she starts messing with governments and armies, or we won't have a story about "life as the big bad" anymore, but an epic fantasy instead.

That's why I mentioned "Witch." Catherine's magic had to stop where it did because, if it had gone any further, the story would no longer have been about controlling parents and controlled teenagers. We would've lost the theme. In season 6, we had the same danger. Willow's magic had to stop short of "rule the world" level, not because of any "in-universe" logic, but for the sake of the theme of life, specifically the life of people in their early 20s, as the big bad.

So how do we stop Willow from doing magic before it gets out of hand? Hmmm ... there doesn't seem to be any big power around that could intervene. Why not let the magic stop itself? Maybe the magic itself exacts a penalty, maybe it punishes the person who overuses it, more or less the way drugs exact a price for the euphoria they give. So, let's say magic is a metaphor for drugs.

The drug metaphor does solve that problem very neatly. That doesn't mean that another solution does not exist. There probably is another solution, and a better one. I just don't know what it would be, and neither did Marti Noxon or her team of writers.

A couple more questions. First, do you like Dark Willow? Was that image an asset to our verse? Would you like to see Dark Willow in an AU, where the "magic as drugs" metaphor doesn't exist? It's hard for me to see how she could have all that grief and despair if she's up on power. I still think if she went too far down the power road, she'd cease to care about Tara.

Finally, why do you want to get rid of the episode at the Bronze again? I really don't get that. If you want magic to have no drug-like qualities, but emphasize the power trip, that incident still makes sense. It would be her last escapade in the realm of "power for fun" and the kickoff in her new career of "power for power's sake."

[nl197]

Oct 5, 2010 6:58:52 GMT -5 Scarygothgirl said:

I'll probably get some hate for saying this, but I think this was what they were going for with Warren. It's part of the appeal of his character development and I really enjoy how that unfolds. Warren also has a clear longing for power, which is obvious from his making robots to serve him, controlling of Andrew and Jonathon, mind control with Katrina etc.

of course his reasons for wanting that power were different to Willow's, since for him its all misogynistic. The robotic girlfriend to supplement the real person he was involved with, taking that real person and turning HER in to a robot (in essence) with mind control, then killing her when she resisted and stood up to him, the super-strength he gained and went after Buffy with just so he could be a Big Strong Man and beat the little girl down, and finally he resorted to guns when he couldn't measure up and his power was taken - by that same girl. Even in the last few seconds of his life, he still had to throw in one more "bitch" before Willow had heard enough and shut his mouth up. Warren may have wanted power for the stereotypical 'supervillain' reasons, but it all boiled down to his wanting power over women.

Wow...it's just plain fun to hate this guy, isn't it?

[astranger]

No no no. Keep the debate about a changed direction out of this. Its a red herring. If you want to debate it start a new thread where the analysis of 'what did happen' is not the actual subject of debate.

I would also at this point like to point out that any opinion on the Spike Buffy relationship is highly subjective. For example, while I liked Spike, I did not particularly like him in Season 6. While Spike and Buffy might have merit as a couple, any work on it would have to be handled with care. I will write no more on this.

But I will analyze the rest of the season with you.

I absolutely did not say that season 6 had to end in any particular way. The way it did end, with Xander talking Willow out of killing herself, was not very good, in my opinion. It was the weakest ending of any season, and one of the things about season 6 that I really do gripe about. If you can suggest another ending, more power to you! But remember, there must be an ending.

That was the impression I got. But I would have to agree with you, I was no fan of the ending, and in answer to your later question, I did not like Dark Willow much. A lot of the emotional impact rely on Alyson's acting and the fact that it's Willow. As a villain in her own right, Willow lacks credibility (in my opinion).

As for the necessity of Magic as drugs, I disagree that this was the logical path. I think it is lazy and a short cut. And why does life is the big bad have to be the theme? Can't the theme be something else? Like about how friends are changed by their experiences? Or about how if your not involved in the lives of those you love, you won't be able to help them? Or something of the like? Pay attention to your friends, they have problems too?

The Drug Metaphor is only valid because you are making the assumption of certain parameters. Once we get sidetracked by the hypothetical we fail to answer questions. Not to be rude, but most of your post is about discussing a hypothetical direction. I know, your interpretation is in there, but its broken down and hard to distill. But what I get from it is that you think that the Drug Metaphor is the smoothest way to get from point A to point B. But I think its clumsy, relies on effects not seen, and several characters being derailled. I think that the better solution would have simply made Willows slide slower and more insidious. But that is a debate for another topic.

Suffice to say, any debate of this is going to come down to truthiness rather than truth due to the subjective nature of the material. And I'm starting to repeat myself. Create a new thread to discuss alternates and I'll be there. For now I will restate that the Willows magic addiction plot line was a blunt metaphor, that relied on several character derailments and a new effect of magic addiction not seen before. It is also poorly supported by an unsatisfying conclusion (which you state yourself) and poor supporting plots. And finally, other metaphors are irrelevant, what matters is the quality of this one.

Actually, on reflection. I should explain more. Lets talk about Amy. Now we know her history, abused by mum, spent years as a rat. Ok, but in the intervening time she seemed nice. Which makes me ask, why is she suddenly a villain? How does she know Rack? What are her motivations? Now something of this is revealed by season 7, but we don't know it yet. So Amy is suddenly evil without an apparent explanation.

And Willow, of the three she's supposed to be the smartest. Maybe not the most perceptive or wise but she's not a fool either. But all of a sudden Amy's her friend? Why? Its just 'oh Amy? Your back! Magic Party?' (I get the reckless use of magic, but how does Amy fit in with this?). I don't understand why Willow would trust her, take her advice. Why are Willow and Amy friends?

Magic Addiction? Why doesn't Giles seem to have been affected? If he was why didn't he notice the signs earlier? What about Ethan? Why was it never mentioned before?

And then there's the ending. Where does the death tower come from? Why is it in California of all places? How does Xander know where to find it (I'm sure this is explained but I can't remember how)? Then there's what happened to Tara. Mundane death my ass.

Then there's the plot lines. Willows own switched mid-track. Buffy, I can understand her trauma, but its still ugly to watch sometimes. Xander breaking up with Anya? And Dawn becoming a klepto. And worst of all Giles, who should know better, fails to do anything even when he is fully aware of whats happening to Willow.

If a metaphor is poorly supported, poorly presented, poorly justified or just not entertaining it doesn't matter how 'good' the metaphor might be, it will not be well liked. This is the case with Magic Addiction. Presentation is important, and Season 6 fails to deliver.

[midwesternwatcher]

I suppose this thread is played out. One thing I must say though.

If you are going to say, "they shouldn't have done this," no matter who "they" are or what "this" is, somebody is going to ask, "What should they have done instead?" This will happen every single time. If you can't say what better alternative existed, then you have no business criticizing the decision that was made. Surely you would recognize this in any other context.

I don't know whether the solution the writers chose was the best possible, but it was a solution, it did get the job done. It solved problems you didn't even seem to know were there, but that the writers must've understood.

There are plenty of things about season 6 I don't like either. In particular, I thought the resolution was ugly and awkward, as you do, and I don't like Xander leaving Anya at the altar. I do think your criticism of Giles is grotesquely unfair and unjust, but that's another matter.

Despite all its flaws, season 6 is the best of the 7.

[astranger]

I suppose this thread is played out. One thing I must say though.

If you are going to say, "they shouldn't have done this," no matter who "they" are or what "this" is, somebody is going to ask, "What should they have done instead?" This will happen every single time. If you can't say what better alternative existed, then you have no business criticizing the decision that was made. Surely you would recognize this in any other context.

I don't need to be a chef to know when food tastes bad. I don't need to be a janitor to know when a room is dirty. Why do I need to be a writer to know when something is badly done. I may not have an alternative, but this doesn't mean I am incapable of analysis. In fact, this is why I want to focus on the analysis, because it's something I can do. I agree that someone will always ask for an alternative, but that often deals with single incidents. What we were getting into was a re-write of the last 2/3 of the season, a massive undertaking and one that would inevitably be confusing and haphazard. Especially over the internet.

I don't know whether the solution the writers chose was the best possible, but it was a solution, it did get the job done. It solved problems you didn't even seem to know were there, but that the writers must've understood.

Wait? Problems the writers must've understood? What problems? Where are they? Unless you can tell me this has no critical value. It doesn't prove anything, or provide any insight into analysis. It is just an assumption.

There are plenty of things about season 6 I don't like either. In particular, I thought the resolution was ugly and awkward, as you do, and I don't like Xander leaving Anya at the altar. I do think your criticism of Giles is grotesquely unfair and unjust, but that's another matter.

Why is my criticisms of Giles unfair? Even Anthony Head criticized Giles for Season 6. He knew there were problems, he knew Willow was abusing magic, he knew Buffy was suffering from depression. He's supposed to be the most perceptive and most wise of the group who has gone through this in his youth, and yet he takes of when his friends (who are practically his children) at a time when they need him most. I could understand if he was called away, forced to go against his will, but he isn't.

Season 6 had a lot of flaws, which I have outlined earlier. It also had its good points, including some of the best episodes of the entire series. But it is far from the best season.

[Josh]

Oct 3, 2010 0:38:04 GMT -5 orangejuicepony said:

I didn't like how prior to the 6th season there was no mention of magic having any ill-affects on it's users. Sure spells would go wrong sometimes, but just doing a spell in general was never shown as possibly harmful. I had a problem with that, and also the fact that it was Willow who had the problem. As my third favorite character in the show, it really bothered me to see her as an addict. I was so used to loving everything she did.

Actually, it was mentioned though that it was possibly Harmful in Season 5. I forget exactly what was said, but it was said by Tara that Willow's power frightens her sometimes. This was what led to their fight in "Tough Love" where Tara went away and then had her brain sucked by Glory.

I do agree that the magic as drugs metaphor was portrayed too obviously, but I still enjoyed the overall arc of the season and think it's a great story. I just wish it hadn't been so in your face spelled out.