|
Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 2, 2010 22:27:02 GMT -5
We all know that the Willow arc of season 6 of BtVS is built about the "magic as drugs" metaphor. And we all know that wasn't popular in the fandom.
It's popular with me, though.
I'm watching "Wrecked" right now, where it really comes out. There are cool special effects. I'm especially fond of the scene where Willow animates one of Tara's dresses, then lays her head on its breast. That's touching.
I'm not trying to change anybody's mind. A person can't help what s/he likes. But can some of you explain to me why you don't like that metaphor?
|
|
Astray
Initiative Soldier
Comfortador
It eats you starting with your bottom.[Mo0:30]
Posts: 382
|
Post by Astray on Oct 2, 2010 23:42:06 GMT -5
I don't like it because it's too obvious. Really, if they even changed the words themselves it would have made it a lot better in my opinion. But Willow saying to Giles "who is your supplier?" after she absorbs his magic is just lame. I think Buffy is a really smart show and using such an obvious and overstated metaphor felt as though they were talking down to their audience. The metaphor itself works, but it didn't have to be spelled out like that.
|
|
|
Post by orangejuicepony on Oct 3, 2010 0:38:04 GMT -5
I didn't like how prior to the 6th season there was no mention of magic having any ill-affects on it's users. Sure spells would go wrong sometimes, but just doing a spell in general was never shown as possibly harmful. I had a problem with that, and also the fact that it was Willow who had the problem. As my third favorite character in the show, it really bothered me to see her as an addict. I was so used to loving everything she did.
|
|
|
Post by nl197 on Oct 3, 2010 2:28:51 GMT -5
I'd only be echoing the responses so far, so the only thing I'll add is that when I revisited this season earlier this year (for the first time since it originally aired, actually), after years of reading about it and the impressions of season 6 as a whole, despite it being out of left-field it made more sense and didn't bother/annoy nearly as much.
Then again, after revisiting the series I've found that there isn't any event on either show that I flat-out dislike anymore, even if I still disagree with how it played out.
|
|
Miss. Rogueh
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
Orangey's Twin!
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 725
|
Post by Miss. Rogueh on Oct 3, 2010 4:40:30 GMT -5
I loved that they tried to do a "drugs are bad" arch, and seeing willow and dawn get into a car accident. Problem is, it came at a time where the kids that grew up watching the show were already experimenting, so it came of a little "afterschool special" like.
|
|
|
Post by astranger on Oct 3, 2010 5:50:11 GMT -5
Well, it is partly because the drug metaphor was based on principles that had never been demonstrated before. Also the original direction seemed to say more about Willow, the dark that was in her and this could have been an excellent theme about the darkness and potential evil that lies in humanity. But instead the drugs make it sort of an excuse for this theme, derailing the original direction in the process.
Context might also be a problem, so much nastiness was happening during Season 6, and there's a lot of hate to go around. Xander and Anya's wedding, Buffy's moppines, Spike's castration, Giles' seeming inability to make up his mind and Dawns whining. Tara was the only good character that season and we all know what happened there. Its a shame really, Season 6 had some of the best episodes of the series but the worse overall theme or sets of story-lines. And a lot of the dislike of Willow's experience will reflect these dissatisfaction.
|
|
Miss. Rogueh
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
Orangey's Twin!
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 725
|
Post by Miss. Rogueh on Oct 3, 2010 7:26:57 GMT -5
The reason I think I loved season 6 was because they were dealing with real everyday issues, (well as close to real as Buffy can get) Dawn and her abandonment issues, drugs, sex, violence, death. It took it less out of the world of make-believe for me. I liked watching the charactors go through things that I myself have gone through... (drugs, abusive relationships) It made me feel closer. More relatable I guess.
|
|
|
Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 3, 2010 9:34:09 GMT -5
Miss Rogueh is the one among you who thinks most like me. I've learned from all of you.
Is "magic as drugs" too obvious? Well, if we have a choice between explaining something in a direct way, or in a metaphorical way, why would we choose the metaphorical way? I suppose we'd want the reader/viewer to go through a little process to get to the idea, so when they "got it", it would have a different flavor or feeling about it. But we still want them to "get it," right? We don't want to confuse or mislead, right? We want to bring people in, not shut them out, don't we? You guys got it. That's good, isn't it? What's wrong with the obvious?
Could I have an example of a metaphor that is better because it's not so obvious? I'm really trying to understand here.
Some of you say the writers failed to prepare the ground for this.
Let me think.
Those of you who saw Firefly of Dollhouse before you saw Buffy should've expected it. Joss is all about the Faustian "don't mess with nature" notion.
But for now, just stick to Buffy. We know all along that magic belongs to the same realm, if that's the word, as vampires, werewolves and such. And I do find hints about the downside of magic in Restless and especially Superstar. I guess that wasn't enough?
Let's suppose it's established that the writers never thought of magic exacting a price until season 6. Should we blame them for not planning out carefully enough? These are people, not gods (or magicians), and Buffy is fiction, not science or history. No fictional story will ever hang together as tightly as reality. I'm all for judging the metaphor on the basis of season 6 episodes alone.
Season 6 didn't have a satisfying arc? It sure satisfied me. All the revelations about Buffy's inner workings, and their playing out on the stage of the show, were wonderful. Same with the Willow character. I'm in the middle of Wrecked right now, I don't see how anyone can not love it.
The biggest reason I love season 6 is that the action came out of the characters. We didn't need to bring in some evil "outside agitator" to make things happen.
|
|
Scarygothgirl
Ensouled Vampire
'What are you doing here? This is a naked place!'
~The Truth Will Free My Soul~[Mo0:32]
Posts: 1,230
|
Post by Scarygothgirl on Oct 3, 2010 13:21:06 GMT -5
Someone pointed out that magic hadn't been mentioned as a bad thing prior to season six. But I've recently been rewatching the first two seasons and I think it;s in season two somewhere when Willow does one of her first big spells, afterwards she's saying to Buffy how Giles told her it will open the door to sometihng new and it's a road that she can't turn off from. And something about how it will change who she is forever and she doesn't know if it's a good or bad thing. Also I think it works well with the metaphor that it wasn't seen as bad. Most teenagers experimenting with drugs think that it will only negatively affect other people, never themselves.
I think what I disliked about it was how the metaphor of magic changed throughout the seasons, and sometimes it was just magic, and sometimes it was something completely different. It does work as a metaphor, and I don't really dislike it as a metaphor, I just think it's not the best that's been used on the show.
|
|
Astray
Initiative Soldier
Comfortador
It eats you starting with your bottom.[Mo0:30]
Posts: 382
|
Post by Astray on Oct 3, 2010 14:57:13 GMT -5
But we still want them to "get it," right? We don't want to confuse or mislead, right? We want to bring people in, not shut them out, don't we? You guys got it. That's good, isn't it? What's wrong with the obvious? Could I have an example of a metaphor that is better because it's not so obvious? I'm really trying to understand here. I do want to be confused and mislead. I think making things less obvious opens them up for the audience to freely associate whatever meaning they want to with that is going on in the show. When using specific drug terminology it limits the relatability and becomes very after school special-y. The metaphorical content in Buffy isn't very obvious in my opinion (with exceptions of Beer Bad and Willow's addiction). I think what made it work is that you could read a lot into metaphors, or you could choose not to. If they made it more open, it would have made for a more interesting story. Instead of "drugs are bad" what if they went with "addictions are awesome"? The drug metaphor is flawed because Willow can never just go cold turkey like an addict would, she will always have to use magic and be around magic to be part of the Scoobies. For Willow its like beginning the addiction, denial, hitting rock bottom, going to rehab, relapse, then deciding to use again...seems a bit a pointless.
|
|
Danner
Respected Watcher
Lezfaux
[Mo0:4]
Posts: 592
|
Post by Danner on Oct 3, 2010 15:42:22 GMT -5
I'm probably just restating what everyone else has said, but... yes, the obviousness bothered me. I felt like I was being hit over the head with the terminology. I most likely would've been more comfortable with the whole metaphor if Willow hadn't gone all magic-junkie and seen a magic-drug-dealer. Feh. It IS possible to pull off a subtle metaphor without confusing your audience. In fact, 'magic' had just previously been used to convincingly convey sexuality (s4, Willow and Tara). Though the 'Big O' scene may have been a little over-the-top, it was still presented pretty elegantly. xD
And yes, writers aren't magicians (heh, geddit? 'cause we're talking about magic...), but the sudden lapse in quality of metaphor and shift from one hidden meaning to another was not the wisest or most effective thing.
So uh, yeah... just my two cents.
|
|
Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
|
Post by Paul on Oct 3, 2010 16:24:57 GMT -5
I would have preferred the story if they had focused on Willow's addiction to power rather than an addiction to the magic itself. It would have made for a more complex, personal story arc than "drugs are bad". That seemed to be the route they were going as well, until "Wrecked" starting explicitly portraying magic as a drug-like activity. It dumbed the story down and made Willow less responsible for her actions because "it was the magic".
|
|
|
Post by nl197 on Oct 3, 2010 16:31:48 GMT -5
ultimately it did become an issue of power, since Willow sort of side-stepped her grief and just wanted to show Buffy and Giles she could kill them if she wanted to.
|
|
Scarygothgirl
Ensouled Vampire
'What are you doing here? This is a naked place!'
~The Truth Will Free My Soul~[Mo0:32]
Posts: 1,230
|
Post by Scarygothgirl on Oct 3, 2010 17:00:24 GMT -5
I think I'm going to agree that they could have left it with Willow's addiction to power, the power that she gets from using magic. The magic-drug-dealer thing was tacky in my mind
|
|
|
Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 3, 2010 17:31:46 GMT -5
The addiction to power aspect is pretty clear in Wrecked. Willow says something like, "would you rather be just plain Willow or Super Willow."
I guess I'm in a minority, but this metaphor worked beautifully for me. The psychedelic scenes in Wrecked were effective in conveying the nature of Willow's (and Amy's) fascination, and why it was so difficult for her to quit. It provides a perfect explanation for Willow's conflict with Tara, which is so illuminating about that relationship.
Here's something I haven't heard mentioned before. Season 6 opens with Buffy being resurrected, which everybody feels is wrong. Now, don't you feel that's wrong? If we have that idea out there, how do we continue the theme, how do we resolve the issue? The magic as drugs metaphor works perfectly for that. Does anybody have an alternative suggestion?
And then there's Buffy "coming back from the grave much graver." That seems to me irresistably right. Or do I have an argument here? What was done to Buffy was wrong. Does anyone not feel that way? Now, continuing the theme, isn't it natural to ask whether magic might not be inherently wrong?
|
|
|
Post by astranger on Oct 3, 2010 17:35:15 GMT -5
The problem with this though, is if its heaped up on itself it ceases to be realistic at all. It just becomes something of a wash. What! Another tragedy? And this doesn't change that there was a perfectly good Willow storyline (based on Willow's personality) and that many other characters (i.e: Giles) act strangely for no apparent reason.
They could easily have had one positive (say Xander and Anya get married) and still have the 'theme' (using that term loosely) intact. If anything this would just make the rest of the season more tragic
|
|
|
Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 3, 2010 19:05:00 GMT -5
The problem with this though, is if its heaped up on itself it ceases to be realistic at all. It just becomes something of a wash. What! Another tragedy? And this doesn't change that there was a perfectly good Willow storyline (based on Willow's personality) and that many other characters (i.e: Giles) act strangely for no apparent reason.
They could easily have had one positive (say Xander and Anya get married) and still have the 'theme' (using that term loosely) intact. If anything this would just make the rest of the season more tragic[/quote]
The Trio was supposed to provide comic relief, I think. It succeeded to some degree. But you're right. I definitely agree they should've married Xander and Anya, and the two of them should've had children in season 7.
I'm not sure what you mean about Giles acting strangely. I get why he wanted to go back to England.
|
|
Danner
Respected Watcher
Lezfaux
[Mo0:4]
Posts: 592
|
Post by Danner on Oct 3, 2010 19:14:11 GMT -5
Any sane person would not leave the country when their friend is clearly very depressed. Buffy could've been driven off the edge by him leaving, but he didn't seem to care.
I figure that's what Astranger meant, anyway.
(Though, Giles did leave because Tony was unable to be there for filming or something, yes? They could've taken an alternate route for his character, regardless, I suppose).
|
|
|
Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 3, 2010 20:19:21 GMT -5
Can't agree about Giles. He knew Buffy didn't want him to leave, but his judgment told him that she would be better off in the long run if he left and she became more independent. He started making noises about that way back in season 4.
Many sane people would've made the same judgment.
There's a book called "The Millionaire Next Door," which compiles many stories about wealthy families who financially support their adult children, and even grandchildren, long after they are out of school, even into their 40s. Read it if you want to know what is the effect on the younger generation. But you know already, don't you?
If you want to say that Marti Noxon went overboard on the pathos in season 6, I'm with you. But I think the "magic as drugs" metaphor was sound, and almost inevitable given the way the season started. Once Giles said, "You're a stupid girl," and Willow answered, "I'm powerful, maybe you shouldn't piss me off," lines that do ring true, well, where else can the story go?
One more thing. Reflecting on what astray said, "When using specific drug terminology it limits the relatability and becomes very after school special-y," I think the truth may have come out.
We're just tired of hearing about drugs being bad, aren't we? That nerve has been overused.
But drugs are still bad. And the world, including California, is full of drugs.
|
|
Danner
Respected Watcher
Lezfaux
[Mo0:4]
Posts: 592
|
Post by Danner on Oct 3, 2010 20:42:17 GMT -5
I'm not talking about financial support, though. I mean emotional support. For someone like Buffy who has lost her mother, her father, and her lover (and as a result of this, probably has abandonment issues), it seems very very neglectful of Giles to just leave the way he did.
Maybe I'm the only one who sees it that way, though. -shrug-
|
|