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Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 11, 2010 20:55:28 GMT -5
Wait? Problems the writers must've understood? What problems? Where are they? Unless you can tell me this has no critical value. It doesn't prove anything, or provide any insight into analysis. It is just an assumption. |
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Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 11, 2010 21:02:10 GMT -5
I did explain that. It was necessary to stop Willow from going too far with her magic. If she had, the story would've escaped the bounds of Sunnydale and been no longer about the life problems of young adults. I did say that, go back and look it up. The magic as drugs metaphor accomplished that. I do not know how else it could've been accomplished. Apparently the writers didn't either.
Giles ... the writers went to great lengths to make us understand his reasons, and lead us through all the inner agonies and changes of heart he went through before he made his decision. He had good reasons to do what he did. Giles already did much more for Willow, as well as Buffy, than was called for in any normal friendship. He probably did too much, not too little. What did you think about his song in OMWF?
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Post by Inappropriate Starches on Oct 12, 2010 1:58:07 GMT -5
While I think it's true that it was necessary to have Willow dial back the magic, especially to keep things in any way difficult for the scoobies, thus keeping the stories interesting, I don't know if that was the sole driving force. The sixth season was very much about the issues of growing up, ie depression, addiction, and even young marriage. It may have been just convenient for them that it made it easier to write things as difficult for them. Before they were doing fine enough conveniently forgetting that they always had the ability to do locater spells and like, lol.
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Post by astranger on Oct 12, 2010 6:15:37 GMT -5
I see. I misunderstood. Apologies.
I disagree, I still do not believe that Giles had good reasons nor that he really did anything to help. I mean, he lectured Willow but was largely re-buffed. Does he follow up? Does he warn anyone else (like Tara?). Especially after Tabula Rasa when it should be evident that Willow was still sliding. He still leaves. Remember that Giles has supposedly been here before, so he should know how bad magic addiction can be. And for Buffy, he could at least warn Xander about this, or Tara, or Anya. And the worst thing is that this problem would have been easily solved by Travers. If Giles was forced to leave by the Watchers Council then it still fits the theme, the actions and is even more tragic because Giles may know about the consequences, but be helpless to stop them.
And I did like Giles' song, because it's Giles and Anthony Stewart Head is an excellent singer.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Oct 12, 2010 7:42:08 GMT -5
I see. I misunderstood. Apologies. I disagree, I still do not believe that Giles had good reasons nor that he really did anything to help. I mean, he lectured Willow but was largely re-buffed. Does he follow up? Does he warn anyone else (like Tara?). Especially after Tabula Rasa when it should be evident that Willow was still sliding. He still leaves. Remember that Giles has supposedly been here before, so he should know how bad magic addiction can be. And for Buffy, he could at least warn Xander about this, or Tara, or Anya. And the worst thing is that this problem would have been easily solved by Travers. If Giles was forced to leave by the Watchers Council then it still fits the theme, the actions and is even more tragic because Giles may know about the consequences, but be helpless to stop them. And I did like Giles' song, because it's Giles and Anthony Stewart Head is an excellent singer. You know, I just realized this, and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it before, but why was Giles even allowed to leave? I mean, yes, Buffy died. But she was back and had been for over a month before Giles left and since they made a big deal about his reinstatement in Checkpoint, I think it's interesting that that they completely ignored the fact that he was essentially abandoning his post. I sort of get his reasoning for leaving on some points, but overall it was a bit murky (specifically when arguing the point of Willow's magic addiction which was a clear problem). But from a standpoint of it being his job to train Buffy still, I don't get how he could be allowed to leave. |
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Post by henzINNIT on Oct 12, 2010 7:48:19 GMT -5
It makes no sense that Giles could leave a young woman with no job and no money to look after her little sister. The writers tried hard to make it seem reasonable, but it just wasn't.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Oct 12, 2010 7:51:47 GMT -5
It makes no sense that Giles could leave a young woman with no job and no money to look after her little sister. The writers tried hard to make it seem reasonable, but it just wasn't. Well Willow and Tara were still living in the Summers' household by the time Giles bought his ticket. And since it seemed he was leaving before Tara actually left Willow (he was on the plane by time Tara was packing her bags) it didn't seem like he was JUST leaving her alone. I agree there are flaws with the Giles leaving story, but honestly the writers had to do it and get it done with fast since ASH wanted to go back home. |
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Post by midwesternwatcher on Oct 12, 2010 8:00:22 GMT -5
Maybe we should start another thread about Giles. When I did that last post, I was thinking mainly about Giles and Willow. But if you mean Giles and Buffy ...
Can he just take over her parental role? Can he support her financially? Even if he has the means, should he?
At this point, Buffy is in effect a single mother. There are millions of single mothers in this country, millions more in other countries. Not many of them have a Giles. If Buffy has a Giles to rely on, how much would her example mean to other single mothers, how much would they identify with her? I want to see this show resonate with real life. Don't you?
I'm glad somebody sees that the writers had to get Willow to "dial back the magic." If the "Willow wants power" theme, which they did bring out, were allowed to proceed to its logical conclusion, the story would've spun out of control. The "magic as drugs" metaphor prevented that, and made the rest of the season possible. I don't know how else they could've done it.
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Post by astranger on Oct 12, 2010 17:45:44 GMT -5
Most single mothers weren't recently resurrected and don't have to fight demons and monsters in their spare time. And most do have relatives like grandparents. And most in fact, do need the help.
Rather than just abandoning her Giles could have actually taught her how to live. Now, to his credit he does try to give her a job at the Magic Box, and he does give her money, but then this stops and he doesn't seem to do more. Nor does he deal with her emotional well being. In fact, when he voices his concern about Buffy's post resurrection trauma, he tells it to Willow, who is clearly not listening. And Giles should have known that as both a watcher and a former wizard himself.
And the Magic as Power could work. I don't get what you mean by logical conclusion. The best answer would be to make the slide into darkness much slower, more insidious. It would also let us know what's up with Amy. I can think of several that explain her behaviour, yet not one of them is shown at the time. Remember the episodes when the Drugs metaphor is at it's strongest are often cited as being the worst in the season, if not the entire series.
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Josh
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Post by Josh on Oct 12, 2010 18:29:39 GMT -5
Most single mothers weren't recently resurrected and don't have to fight demons and monsters in their spare time. And most do have relatives like grandparents. And most in fact, do need the help. Rather than just abandoning her Giles could have actually taught her how to live. Now, to his credit he does try to give her a job at the Magic Box, and he does give her money, but then this stops and he doesn't seem to do more. Nor does he deal with her emotional well being. In fact, when he voices his concern about Buffy's post resurrection trauma, he tells it to Willow, who is clearly not listening. And Giles should have known that as both a watcher and a former wizard himself. And the Magic as Power could work. I don't get what you mean by logical conclusion. The best answer would be to make the slide into darkness much slower, more insidious. It would also let us know what's up with Amy. I can think of several that explain her behaviour, yet not one of them is shown at the time. Remember the episodes when the Drugs metaphor is at it's strongest are often cited as being the worst in the season, if not the entire series. I'm constantly thinking of new things that I don't previously consider so forgive me if my thoughts appear scatter brained. Giles abandoning Buffy for the reasons he does in Season 6 are actually strange/interesting since at the beginning of Season 5, he was wanting to leave because he said she no longer needed him. Then a year later, he leaves her because she needs him too much.  And I never got why Amy was so dark in Season 6. I feel like it was a drastic change in characteristic from the Amy we saw in seasons 1-3. I mean, think of how reluctant she was to do the spell for Xander in Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered at first. Yes, she spent 3 years as a rat, but you think that mishap caused by magic would make her of all people reluctant to abuse magic, much less help anyone else descend down a dark path with it. |
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tkts
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Post by tkts on Oct 13, 2010 20:45:06 GMT -5
At this point, Buffy is in effect a single mother. There are millions of single mothers in this country, millions more in other countries. Not many of them have a Giles. But quite a few have a parent who lives nearby and takes a more active role in the child's life than a grandparent normally would. And I never got why Amy was so dark in Season 6. I feel like it was a drastic change in characteristic from the Amy we saw in seasons 1-3. I mean, think of how reluctant she was to do the spell for Xander in Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered at first. Yes, she spent 3 years as a rat, but you think that mishap caused by magic would make her of all people reluctant to abuse magic, much less help anyone else descend down a dark path with it. Amy is very odd, considering how radically different her character is every time we see her. She's the innocent shy girl in "The Witch," the unethical manipulator in "Gingerbread," the peer-pressuring devil-on-the-shoulder in "Smashed" and "Wrecked," the vengeful villain in "The Killer in Me." The change from Season 3 to Season 6 is especially strange, when you consider she's been a rat the whole time and not exactly going through a lot of character development. It would be interesting to see what happened in Amy's life during the periods we don't see. |
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Miss. Rogueh
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Post by Miss. Rogueh on Oct 14, 2010 20:33:21 GMT -5
Well, when you get to know someone you realize that they do change drasticly. I am very shy when you first meet me, then as i get more comfortable with you I open up more... I know alot of people are like this, the more they trust you the more they let you know about them.
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