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Post by buffysmglover on Mar 9, 2008 4:21:54 GMT -5
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Post by KingofCretins on Mar 9, 2008 11:00:48 GMT -5
See, this is the kind of thing that makes me feel like people (possibly including Joss Whedon and Scott Allie) are lumping all unhappiness about the way this was done together and just dismissing it as 'close-minded', when I think it's we, the critics, who paid more attention to the details and the subtext than even the man in charge of the story.
There's no value in being for it just for it's own sexuality cakes -- be for it because there's something admirable about it at a character level. And I'm not sure that's possible when the writer and "director" and "producers" have told us that Buffy is doing with this girl what she did with Spike and what Parker did with her.
"Whether healthy or not" is about the worst possible reason to show support for a relationship.
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Post by Giant Michael on Mar 9, 2008 11:25:18 GMT -5
See, this is the kind of thing that makes me feel like people (possibly including Joss Whedon and Scott Allie) are lumping all unhappiness about the way this was done together and just dismissing it as 'close-minded', when I think it's we, the critics, who paid more attention to the details and the subtext than even the man in charge of the story. Have to say I agree. I think this sort of thing over-simplifies a complex issue that - with most people here, at least - has nothing to do with close-mindedness. MB x
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 9, 2008 11:28:19 GMT -5
It's irritating to give this matter such special attention because of the gayness of it. Us fans disagree on a great many things, but suddenly it's different because Buffy is using another girl instead of a guy? pfft. Bullshizzle.
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Post by buffysmglover on Mar 9, 2008 12:22:25 GMT -5
The difference is that when she used Spike, I hadn't heard of Buffy.
This isn't about Batsu entirely. THERE'S NO SPECIAL ATTENTION. But however many years ago when Spuffy happened, I was around 10 years old, so I certainly wasn't going to do it. It's about getting it out there that this won't stop some of us from picking up the next issue, and the one after that, and the one after that. There are people to afraid to say anything good online because they're in a crowd of haters, just like there are people afraid of supporting WhedonPositive online now because of your posts.
And not every person okay with his decision is gay.
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Post by KingofCretins on Mar 9, 2008 12:38:35 GMT -5
Eh... it's a marketplace of ideas. Nobody is intimidating anybody over this, and the mere fact that there is unhappiness over the storyline shouldn't dissuade anyone from speaking up in support of it -- that's entirely down to them and their sense of conviction on the subject.
It's not like I'm going to stop reading, I'm not going to stop doing the transcripts. But I've never been one for "My Whedon, Right Or Wrong", and I'm not inclined to start just *because* Buffy sleeping with a girl appeals on some level that makes it okay for her to act like a kinder, gentler Parker Abrams.
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 9, 2008 13:13:46 GMT -5
The difference is that when she used Spike, I hadn't heard of Buffy. This isn't about Batsu entirely. THERE'S NO SPECIAL ATTENTION. But however many years ago when Spuffy happened, I was around 10 years old, so I certainly wasn't going to do it. It's about getting it out there that this won't stop some of us from picking up the next issue, and the one after that, and the one after that. There are people to afraid to say anything good online because they're in a crowd of haters, just like there are people afraid of supporting WhedonPositive online now because of your posts. And not every person okay with his decision is gay. I honestly didn't understand that. Why is it important to get it out there that you're still buying the issue? Unless I've missed a great number of posts, very very few people have expressed their want to quit on the buffy comic. Moreover, how can you say this matter isn't getting special attention in the same paragraph that explains how you've made a website for this subject's supporters. I've never stated anywhere that only gay people are happy with this decision. I'm straight and fine with the decision. Debate is something that comes packaged with a Joss Whedon creation. He's often controversial. Maintaining a space for healthy debate without hissy fits is the way forward, not creating spaces where only people who agree can feel welcome. In my opinion anyway.
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kershmuckit
Potential Slayer
The sound you get when you play golf with pudding
Posts: 135
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Post by kershmuckit on Mar 9, 2008 13:37:47 GMT -5
I'm getting so fed up of all the agro on the board lately. So i'm just staying out of most this for now. But i signed your website smglover, since i'm not angry about the decision, personally.
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 9, 2008 13:53:34 GMT -5
It'll cool down soon enough. Everything is just tense cause Joss has thrown everything out of whack for a lil while.
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Slayer489
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
Posts: 784
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Post by Slayer489 on Mar 9, 2008 13:54:19 GMT -5
I signed your site buffysmglover.
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eriktheslayerboy
Potential Slayer
"I like blue jeans and Irony." MechaDawn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 138
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Post by eriktheslayerboy on Mar 9, 2008 14:21:59 GMT -5
I think the board isnt that mush abt batsu in a way it is but i think its more about soupporting joss and having faith that he knowns what his doing and his not just doing as a publicity stunt or for the money or something.
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Whedon Fan
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Whedon Fan on Mar 9, 2008 14:59:58 GMT -5
I think the board isnt that mush abt batsu in a way it is but i think its more about soupporting joss and having faith that he knowns what his doing and his not just doing as a publicity stunt or for the money or something. Joss did say that he knnew fans would be blogging crazy about this but not to worry that he knows were the story is going, clearly everyone has ignored this considering all the agrovasion thats went on since the issue was released. Heres what Joss had to say on Buffy's little 'experiment' with Satsu: "Before fans start blogging frantically, they should know that i'm clear where this is headed. “We’re not going to make her gay, nor are we going to take the next 50 issues explaining that she’s not. She’s young and experimenting, and did I mention open-minded?”
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Post by KingofCretins on Mar 9, 2008 15:15:04 GMT -5
Which would be more helpful is *any* significant portion of the criticism had *anything* do with Buffy's sexuality.
It doesn't.
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eriktheslayerboy
Potential Slayer
"I like blue jeans and Irony." MechaDawn[Mo0:0]
Posts: 138
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Post by eriktheslayerboy on Mar 9, 2008 15:53:42 GMT -5
back to having faith ppl...
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Post by CowboyGuy on Mar 9, 2008 17:45:54 GMT -5
I will add that I don't think the tone around here right now is "that bad". Actually I think most people here have taken things well, and handled discussions in a mostly mature way! Also, this is something that maybe needed to happen. It's caused a lot of discussion for sure. I don't think that any of us are really less of a fan just because Batsu happened. I know I'm not. We can be sure that this was a one time deal, and that we're gonna see some drama occur cause of this hook-up. If it makes for better reading I am all for it. Buffy herself has been kinda boring to me as of late. Kinda one dimensional. Maybe this will open her up more in the comic, anyway. Add some depth, etc? Petitions and fansites, listings, etc are started for all sorts of things. I don't see anything wrong with having a Batsu appreciation one too! EDIT: Furthermore, the WhedonPositive idea is really cool! Maybe we could have others for other ships as well? I'm not sure if we have any Xander/Renee fans though hehe!!
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Mar 9, 2008 18:13:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure if we have any Xander/Renee fans though hehe!! I'm all for a Xander and Renee relationship the only thing that bothers me is the lack of grief we have seen from Xander and the group of the loss of the people in the battle like Anya and oddly enough no mention of what they think is a dead Spike. Hopefull maybe in a stand alone issue. I know season 8 is set a year and a half after he events of Chosen so perhaps do a stand alone issue filling in the gap. Why they went to Scotland, why a castle, more depth into giant dawn and more info on the new slayers like Renee, Satsu, Leah and Rowena. Satsu is the only new slayer that is getting any character progression and Renee a little but only because of the whole Xander thing.
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 9, 2008 18:17:14 GMT -5
Both of Xander's serious ex's are dead. If I was a girl I'd NEVER split up with that guy. And if we're talking appreciation groups, I'm all for one celebrating Buffy's awesome PJ's
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Post by endofautumn on Mar 9, 2008 20:25:46 GMT -5
i dont care that its a woman buffy slept with, even though i do think its unlike her. Its the fact that i felt it was obviously coming and was forced. Im totally against Batsu, but im behind Joss, im sure he'l make everything work
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balesthebloody
Wise-cracking Techno Genius
"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
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Post by balesthebloody on Mar 9, 2008 20:31:16 GMT -5
I support Batsu! I think that it was good for character development. I'm sure it won't last or anything. I look at it as a one night stand for the time being.
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Post by xmadxscientistx on Mar 9, 2008 20:48:45 GMT -5
I don't support Batsu, but I'll fight to the death for your right to see it. I support Joss. This is not my favorite possible pairing, but I'm glad he went there.
I kind of wish there was a cannonical gay man in Buffy.
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