balesthebloody
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"Angel's gettin' some! Good on you mate!"[Mo0:0]
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Post by balesthebloody on Mar 7, 2008 20:32:07 GMT -5
I was wondering, around how old is Satsu anyways? Well in "A Beautiful Sunset" she is being chosen in what looks like a school. So my guess would be anywhere between 17-19 maybe even 20.
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Post by buffysmglover on Mar 7, 2008 20:32:33 GMT -5
It hasn't actually been discussed in the comic.
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Whedon Fan
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Post by Whedon Fan on Mar 7, 2008 21:50:24 GMT -5
There was loxkers in the background so I would say High school but rememeber S8 takes place 1 year and a half from Chosen so if she was about 18 there then she's about 19 now, but still Buffy is late twenties probably around 25-26
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Post by Wyndam on Mar 7, 2008 22:09:44 GMT -5
Buffy is 24 during Season 8, AT MOST on the verge of 25.
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Post by Giant Michael on Mar 8, 2008 4:22:28 GMT -5
Heres what Joss had to say on Buffy's 'experiment' with Satsu: "Before fans start blogging frantically, they should know that i'm clear where this is headed. We’re not going to make her gay, nor are we going to take the next 50 issues explaining that she’s not. She’s young and experimenting, and did I mention open-minded?” The underlying sentiment being 'if you don't agree that Buffy/Satsu was a brilliant decision, you're narrow-minded and LAME'. Too often these days I've seen Joss telling us how to read his work; with a fandom as devoted as his is, I'm inclined to wonder whether it hasn't all gone to his head. Also, he seems to be outright admitting that they're going to plonk a sex scene in the middle of the season and then only skirt around the issues it might bring up in whatever follows. Which, for me, reads 'selling point'. For me, one of the coolest things about Willow and Tara's relationship was that it was built up so steadily and naturally, that they slipped their first kissed into 'The Body', that it wasn't all fanfare and scandal. But this? They've been urging retailers for months now to stock extra copies of issue twelve because it would sell out so quickly. Selling Buffy on the back of a sensationalised 'lesbian moment' goes against everything that was brilliant about Willow and Tara's relationship. Remember when Whedon was saying things like this? 'Ultimately, some people say "lesbian chic," I say, "Okay, whatever." Those criticisms don't really bug me. You look at shows like Ally McBeal and Party Of Five, which both did lesbian kisses that were promoted and hyped for months and months, and afterwards the characters were like, "Well, I seem to be very heterosexual! Thank you for that steamy lesbian kiss!"'? Yuh... huh. So, yes. Lesbian chic. And I don't want it in the Buffyverse. I want to be all snarky and flippant about this, but I'm genuinely irked by it. For one, because - all cynicism aside - I love this character, I love her story, and I love how true and real and brilliantly she's written in the show, and where she's going in the comics. To see her reduced to a quick fuck and a selling point makes me angry. But - bigger picture - wasn't this supposed to be a feminist show? MB x
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kershmuckit
Potential Slayer
The sound you get when you play golf with pudding
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Post by kershmuckit on Mar 8, 2008 6:59:32 GMT -5
Heres what Joss had to say on Buffy's 'experiment' with Satsu: "Before fans start blogging frantically, they should know that i'm clear where this is headed. We’re not going to make her gay, nor are we going to take the next 50 issues explaining that she’s not. She’s young and experimenting, and did I mention open-minded?” The underlying sentiment being 'if you don't agree that Buffy/Satsu was a brilliant decision, you're narrow-minded and LAME'. Too often these days I've seen Joss telling us how to read his work; with a fandom as devoted as his is, I'm inclined to wonder whether it hasn't all gone to his head. Also, he seems to be outright admitting that they're going to plonk a sex scene in the middle of the season and then only skirt around the issues it might bring up in whatever follows. Which, for me, reads 'selling point'. For me, one of the coolest things about Willow and Tara's relationship was that it was built up so steadily and naturally, that they slipped their first kissed into 'The Body', that it wasn't all fanfare and scandal. But this? They've been urging retailers for months now to stock extra copies of issue twelve because it would sell out so quickly. Selling Buffy on the back of a sensationalised 'lesbian moment' goes against everything that was brilliant about Willow and Tara's relationship. Remember when Whedon was saying things like this? 'Ultimately, some people say "lesbian chic," I say, "Okay, whatever." Those criticisms don't really bug me. You look at shows like Ally McBeal and Party Of Five, which both did lesbian kisses that were promoted and hyped for months and months, and afterwards the characters were like, "Well, I seem to be very heterosexual! Thank you for that steamy lesbian kiss!"'? Yuh... huh. So, yes. Lesbian chic. And I don't want it in the Buffyverse. I want to be all snarky and flippant about this, but I'm genuinely irked by it. For one, because - all cynicism aside - I love this character, I love her story, and I love how true and real and brilliantly she's written in the show, and where she's going in the comics. To see her reduced to a quick [censored!] and a selling point makes me angry. But - bigger picture - wasn't this supposed to be a feminist show? MB x I was convinced by scott allie on the main page on DH's Buffy area that it wasn't about selling comics. I believe that too. It is a feminist show and theres nothing un-feminist about what buffy did, people experiment, sexuality is a spectrum, blah blah, i think buffy does genuinely care about satsu, she's just not madly in love with her, not all things can be put in a box and i wouldn't put buffy's relationship with satsu in the 'love' or the 'experiment' box. In my opinion you've judged this storyline before it's even happened. You don't know whats coming in the next comics, i know that it's not going to be over next comic, this is part of a storyline, not just random fanservice. The seeds were planted for this as early as issue 3. Also intresting point about people saying Buffy sleeping with a women is out of charecter. Well, duh. The whole point is it's out of charecter, she was put in a situation that made her act out of charecter, now she's going to have to deal with what that means, when you look at the dialog theres nothing out of charecter about that. And..., well, better there be hoo har than no hoo har. Joss did mean to rile us up. I'm still not convinced this was a marketing move, joss has never endorced that before, i see no reason why he would now. I do think he's never been afraid to do something though, no matter the consiquences. They weren't even going to have Buffy and Satsu sleep together until Drew Goddard pitched the idea, that it would be fresher than doing the 'will they won't they' storyline. (when i think about it, looking back, i wouldn't want a will they won't they storyline because this has been too intresting, a will they won't they storyline would of be tottally dull compared to this) I think on the surface, yes, it looks exactly like a cheap stunt, but you look deeper and theres plenty of evidence for it not being.
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alycat7
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Post by alycat7 on Mar 8, 2008 9:14:25 GMT -5
I was wondering, around how old is Satsu anyways? Well in "A Beautiful Sunset" she is being chosen in what looks like a school. So my guess would be anywhere between 17-19 maybe even 20. I asked because it would seem really wierd for Buffy to be "taking advantage of a minor" like that.
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Slayer489
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"Why do I feel like this? Why do I let Spike do those things to me?" - Buffy 'Dead Things'[Mo0:0]
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Post by Slayer489 on Mar 8, 2008 9:31:09 GMT -5
Satsu's probably around 20 years old. So it's fine for Buffy (24) to sleep with her. It's legal.
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Post by Giant Michael on Mar 8, 2008 9:54:48 GMT -5
It's not the story that I have a problem with - I still don't buy it, but I'd be willing to see what comes out of it and consider otherwise - but the fact that they were explicitly encouraging retailers to buy this issue in bulk and that the New York Times article was published on the day of release leads me to believe that they're using a 'lesbian chic' moment to drum up a bit of pointless controversy and sell a few comics...
I expected better than that from the Buffyverse.
MB x
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faith0tvs
Novice Witch
I am the Slayer ask me How[Mo0:4]
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Post by faith0tvs on Mar 8, 2008 10:10:49 GMT -5
I have to agree with Mikey , Faiths behaviour suggests that she is at least bi , besides if you read between the lines of the first part of No future for you you will see that there was more to her relationship with B (and if you consider some of the writer's comments on that) .
Now when it comes to Satsu I think that she just turned 20 or something like that.
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Post by Giant Michael on Mar 8, 2008 10:39:41 GMT -5
Wow, look at the poll. Unless somebody did some cheating, we're RIGHT down the middle. Which I'm kind of surprised about. I got the feeling more fans were open minded. See, this is the thing that I was most worried about. As soon as Joss suggests that anyone who doesn't agree with Buffy/Satsu is close-minded, the fans who will follow him blindly wherever he goes and allow him to dictate the way they read his work start throwing around veiled accusations of bigotry. And, no, Mikey isn't the first one to say this sort of thing, but his posts have been so relentlessly giddy with labelling Buffy bisexual and defending everything Joss does, his was the post I decided to pick up on. As I believe is the over-arcing theme of this series, not everything can be seen in black and white; by the same reasoning, not everyone who considers Joss's intent to stoke a bit of controversy with a ham-fisted 'lesbian/bisexual/She's just experimenting!!!' triste is a mouth-breathing anti-liberal. After the comments Joss made blowing his own trumpet about not using a bit of girl-on-girl to boost the ratings during the Willow/Tara backlash - comments that I could stand by, because I believed in them - I find it extremely disappointing the way this particularly storyline has, seemingly, been used to court controversy from the get-go. MB x
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NimNams
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Post by NimNams on Mar 8, 2008 12:28:33 GMT -5
For me, it's a little early to declare it as a good or bad a idea. I mean, we haven't even seen the whole arc, let alone the fallout beyond that.
Ask me in a year, and I'll tell you whether I think it helped the story or not.
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Lukee
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Post by Lukee on Mar 8, 2008 12:51:41 GMT -5
Wow, look at the poll. Unless somebody did some cheating, we're RIGHT down the middle. Which I'm kind of surprised about. I got the feeling more fans were open minded. I don't get what you mean so the people that DON'T want Buffy and Satsu to be together and junk are closed minded? If thats what you saying then you wrong. Thats not it at all. For one Buffy imo should not be with a women thats not her it out of character for her to do what she did with Satsu. She told her that she didn't feel the way she did about Buffy. Yet Buffy for some reason changed her mind and USED Satsu. Which i think is wrong too. I think it would be wrong to turn Buffy gay and was a wrong choice to have her sleep with S. Its not that i dont like Satsu [still hoping she turns out evil!!] but her and Buffy wrong. Shouldn't happen. At least there not making B gay.
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Lukee
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Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
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Post by Lukee on Mar 8, 2008 13:07:50 GMT -5
has Buffy ever given you any indication hat she was gay or even fancied Satsu ?? no. Thats what makes it out of character. Willow and Tara is way different they fell for each other over time.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
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Post by Lukee on Mar 8, 2008 13:14:12 GMT -5
I don't think Buffy is gay, I think she's bi. And Willow didn't give any indication she was gay before Tara either, so.... Just because Joss doesn't write it all out for you, so you know every single thing that's going on in their heads, doesn't mean that there are things going on in their heads that you don't know about YET. Vampire Willow...... did Willow not say i think i may be gay about her... yes not indicating or anything huh. So if Xander just jumped in bed with Oz that wouldn't out of character? If i did what Buffy did people would think its out of character. Thats why i think its out of character for Buffy to do that.
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Post by Giant Michael on Mar 8, 2008 13:19:10 GMT -5
Yet Buffy for some reason changed her mind and USED Satsu. Which i think is wrong too. I think Buffy 'using' Satsu follows the theme of Buffy's moral ambiguity that has been established this season; I'm still not convinced that Buffy would sleep with a woman - it took her a long time to come to terms with Willow and Tara's relationship, after all - and I don't buy this 'spectrum of sexuality' baloney that's being bandied about, but the idea that she was stuck up in her great back castle and missing that sex (and, also in keeping with this season's themes, enjoying/abusing her power over the newly-activated Slayers) rings fairly true. I'm willing to see where the rest of the season will take this; I hope it's going somewhere. I'm just really uncomfortable with the way that her sexuality has been exploited as a marketing tactic, and I'm not all that enamored with the way Joss has been conducting himself in his interviews. Gee whiz, I suggest that a woman who had sex with another woman might not be heterosexual, I'm such a radical! I never suggested you were being radical; I think that's what you'd like to think. Merely that I think you over egg the bread when it comes to gay issues in the Buffyverse; if everything was reduced to sexuality, this story would be boring. You've been banging on about bisexuality and labels and alsorts of nonsense in any number of threads, and it's starting to get repetitive... Also, please note that I realise the irony of my accusing people of being repetitive, given my current post count and it's reliance on 'Buffy/Satsu is STOOPID!' sentiments. When anything like this occurs, I think people get caught up with bandying about complex notions like bigotry and close mindedness, and it runs the risk of dividing the community. MB x
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sla
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live fast, die never[Mo0:16]
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Post by sla on Mar 8, 2008 13:21:19 GMT -5
I think this was bad, 'cause Buffy'll break satsus'heart.
that's sad, and out of the character. it's like, I dunno...teacher/student. I don't like it.
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Lukee
Ensouled Vampire
Brilliant is my middle name tbf[Mo0:14]
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Post by Lukee on Mar 8, 2008 13:23:52 GMT -5
Considering Xander has mentioned a lot of times he'd love to "go gay", no, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a gay experience either. Since most people in this world are bisexual. Also, Willow didn't say SHE was gay, she thought Vamp Willow was kind of gay. She showed no interest in girls until she met Tara, and never mentioned anything. I didn't say Willow had said she was. I was talking about what she though about her vamp self... Like MB said it took Buffy a while to come to terms with Willow and Tara. And the way she talked to S in ABS she never gave anything off that she could be Bi at all. Thats why it was out of character for her. Now if i saw Buffy failing for S like Willow did with Tara i wouldn't say it was out of character.
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Post by Rebecca on Mar 8, 2008 13:28:52 GMT -5
I think when people say that Buffy was acting OOC, I look at it as Buffy acting without thinking about the repercussions, or whether it is morally wrong. I can see Buffy sleeping with Spike as he's just a thing, "dehumanizing" him, and not thinking about how he could be hurt by the situation. He was just a vampire. However I see this situation as different because Satsu is a girl. Buffy's charge. Buffy has an obligation to think about Satsu before acting on her impulses. That's why I see this act as a bad choice for Buffy.
All this talk about "out of character"... a lot of what Buffy has been doing this season has been out of character, and I don't think we're done. I am totally looking forward to the repercussions, and I *hope* that the scoobs all come around. I see Joss setting this all up... and that's why I think this act as a good choice for Joss.
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Post by KingofCretins on Mar 8, 2008 13:29:11 GMT -5
I despise all the agenda-mongering going on. That's what it is, as several posters have and still are doing, to marginalize any criticism of Buffy's behavior as that old tripe, homophobia.
I don't care Satsu's a girl.
I do care that she's *in love with Buffy* and Buffy is *not* in love with her. I do care that Satsu can't even pretend not to care that much to protect herself, because Buffy knows through magical fait accompli that Satsu really is in love with her.
I do care that Buffy's choice to "experiment" knowing that she and Satsu had different expectations going in (which we know indisputably by the fact Satsu still had to ask the question after they had sex) is not really any different than Parker sleeping with Buffy knowing that they had different expectations. Scott Allie and Joss both explicitly verified that this was an 'experiment' and that Buffy is 'using' Satsu.
It wasn't acceptable behavior then, why is it acceptable now? Are people really that obsessed with validating themselves by looking "open-minded" about Buffy having a same-sex experiment that they are willing to just strip the event out of all context and make excuses for anything? I mean, let's say that this happened because Buffy had somehow caused a "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" or "Something Blue" situation? Would it *still* be okay just because zOMG Buffy had teh sexx w/ a gurll!!11?
I would hope that people would say "of course it wouldn't be okay". But, I also would have hoped more people would have thought it's not okay that Satsu is being used to sate horny, lonely Buffy.
It would have been much less iffy had, for instance, 8.11 ended with Buffy, rather than just holding Satsu's hand, hesitantly going in for a kiss. Or if we actually heard Satsu, in as many words, tell Buffy before the fact that she didn't want anything from her, didn't expect anything from her, just wanted to be with her. Instead, we know the opposite is true of Satsu's feelings... because she still had the question after they slept together. She still felt embarrassed enough to try to *leave* when she got the answer she didn't want.
And, however sweetly Buffy acted afterwards, she basically carved Satsu's heart out and showed it to her for the rest of the issue. Not only did she, a moment after puttin a "for now" gloss on their "secret", turn around and *deny* Satsu in front of everyone in spite of being naked in bed with her, she apparently also just left her alone there when she went to check out the wolf thing.
Satsu's new situation is summed up perfectly in the panel where Buffy and Xander are on the dais addressing the group. The Slayers are all on the floor. Off to one side, Satsu is with Leah and Rowena. Except Satsu is standing on the step, below and behind Buffy, but above and apart from her Alpha Team-mates. Caught in the middle. Between that and Willow's (rather surprising, and clearly meant to hurt Buffy) remark about nothing making sense making Satsu lower her head in shame, the poor girl's dream night -- in bed with the woman she loved -- turned into a humiliation so painful you almost wanted to cry.
But all that, *all that*, is apparently okay because zOMG Buffy had teh sexx w/ a gurll!!11.
Yeah, this is about as snarky as I've been on this. But I'm tired of being called a homophobe by other fans because I'm actually one of the few people taking a *genderless* look at what's happened.
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