Season 8 - Wolves at the Gate: Issue 15

[Rebecca]

hence why some of us think that she may well pull through

[themaleslayer]

Or an unforseen plot twist where Willow charmed the group to keep them from harms way...lol

Ok, stupid post. But can't a person die and stay dead for once?

[Skytteflickan88]

May 9, 2008 17:12:56 GMT -5 @themaleslayer said:

Or an unforseen plot twist where Willow charmed the group to keep them from harms way...lol

Ok, stupid post. But can't a person die and stay dead for once?

aha. memoryspelling again perhaps?

[Skytteflickan88]

May 9, 2008 17:12:56 GMT -5 @themaleslayer said:

Or an unforseen plot twist where Willow charmed the group to keep them from harms way...lol

Ok, stupid post. But can't a person die and stay dead for once?

Joss has made us long for death. Perhaps that is his sinister plan... He's not God, he is in´fact satan himself, here on Earth to lure us into the darkness...

Sneaky.

[Rebecca]

seriously? for once? a lot of cool characters have been killed off (tara comes to mind pretty easily, but joyce and anya earn a shout out).

both of xander's love interests have had a scene where they appear to be dead, but come back, but eventually die.

side bar--similar pattern: all of buffy's love interests leave her of their own free will. yeah, check that out.

it just feels too early to kill of xander's girl... they've only flirted and kissed!!

[wenxina]

Makes it all the more heart-breaking... knowing that there are a bunch of coulda/woulda/shouldas.
But hey, if covers are to be believed (I personally don't trust them), then Renee's in the safehouse.
And I'm guessing there's gonna be some crazy monkey sex between Xander and her once she recovers because you don't go through something like that without suddenly panicking and trying to do all the things you want to do before you die, before you actually die.
Of course, this being in the universe where people stay happy... could happen.

[themaleslayer]

May 9, 2008 21:16:49 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Makes it all the more heart-breaking... knowing that there are a bunch of coulda/woulda/shouldas.
But hey, if covers are to be believed (I personally don't trust them), then Renee's in the safehouse.
And I'm guessing there's gonna be some crazy monkey sex between Xander and her once she recovers because you don't go through something like that without suddenly panicking and trying to do all the things you want to do before you die, before you actually die.
Of course, this being in the universe where people stay happy... could happen.

But I would prefer is she stayed dead, cause usually when a character dies, they come back...but than again...

[wenxina]

Hey, not arguing with you there.
Of course, you're operating on the assumption that she's already dead. I've no problems with magically patching her up... I just have issues with resurrections.
But her staying dead would not make me scream in exasperation, quite the opposite actually.
I was being mildly ironic in my last post.

[themaleslayer]

May 9, 2008 21:23:29 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Hey, not arguing with you there.
Of course, you're operating on the assumption that she's already dead. I've no problems with magically patching her up... I just have issues with resurrections.
But her staying dead would not make me scream in exasperation, quite the opposite actually.
I was being mildly ironic in my last post.

Well, she seems dead, but I wouldn't be suprised if Willow worked her mojo earlier to keep them from Harm's way.

[Smashed]

i think renees last (or seemingly last?) words will be something like xander...i love y--....or something. and then she'll die while hes holding her.

[themaleslayer]

yeah...

[wenxina]

May 9, 2008 22:40:08 GMT -5 Smashed said:

i think renees last (or seemingly last?) words will be something like xander...i love y--....or something. and then she'll die while hes holding her.

And Drew Goddard will officially have to turn in his writer's card... or at least go on strike for an indefinite period of time.

[El Diablo Robotico]

I was surprised when I went back and looked at the last panel again, because I'd thought the stake end of the Scythe had gone right thru her heart. But it looks more like it got her thru the center of the chest. Which is important, because right thru the heart=dead almost instantly; thru the chest=she might live for a little while. Might even be saveable (by regular medical people, not just Uber-Powerful Witch Doctors) if she was gotten to in time.

So she might very well die in the next issue, but I think it's inaccurate to say that she's already dead...

[Rachster]

I think Renee's just dead as in no last words or anything i mean did you see how and where she was stabbed how could she survive that even long enough to say a last word i think shes dead and gone...

[richie]

i guess they intend to separete the gang....
a few issues back, willow had a misunderstanding with buff... and i think, maybe, xander do it now....
once giles/faith are gone... willow and xander too... buffy will be weak a thats when the Twilight will atack....
thats what i think....
and i think renee is dead...

[Wyndam]

I think I would be rather disappointed if Renee doesn't die in #15. Giving fans a shock in one issue and then correcting it in the next is a very slippery slope that can get very old, very quickly.

I don't know if anyone reads The Walking Dead comic series, but that was done in a few issues which upset quite a few fans, and needless to say, it hasn't happened again.

I'd hate to see that happen with Season 8.

[El Diablo Robotico]

May 13, 2008 21:12:29 GMT -5 Wyndam said:

I think I would be rather disappointed if Renee doesn't die in #15. Giving fans a shock in one issue and then correcting it in the next is a very slippery slope that can get very old, very quickly.

I don't disagree with that, but... they did have these kinds of "cliffhangers" on the shows all the time.

Angel seemingly being killed at the end of "Becoming, Pt. 2". Spike in "Chosen". Buffy in "Seeing Red". Faith in "Graduation Day, Pt. 1". Harmony in "Graduation Day, Pt. 2". Giles in "Sleeper". Wesley in "Sleep Tight". Lorne in "Through the Looking Glass". And maybe a couple of others I'm not thinking of.

The big difference with this one with Renee, and those, is that here the sense of danger is much, much higher. With most (maybe all) of the above examples, you never really believed the characters were actually going to die, because they were too important. They were main cast-members. With Renee, you absolutely believe she could be killed off.

My big worry is that, no matter which way this goes, it's gonna cause problems. Either Willow heals her, and further strengthens the idea that NO character can die when she's around, that NO injury is too severe for her to heal, and from a story perspective, that's not a good thing, because it removes much of the sense of danger and risk. Or, she doesn't heal her, and people like me are gonna say, "Wait a minute--everything Warren did to her, and she heals herself in about 5 seconds flat, yet she can't solve a little stake thru the chest? Where's the consistency and continuity?"

[wenxina]

Comes down to a simple dichotomy: Warren was slowly torturing/killing Willow. It wasn't supposed to kill her right away. So she wasn't dead. Renee on the other hand, if she is dead like many think she is, then well, she's dead. Could Willow possibly bring her back? Maybe. But would Xander want that? After what happened with bringing Buffy back in S6 (oops, she was in heaven? Damn... bad us!), would he, or could he make Willow do it? He's fought the good fight for so long now, it would seem rather selfish for him to just say "Will, bring her back. Whatever it takes."

[El Diablo Robotico]

May 13, 2008 22:26:52 GMT -5 wenxina said:

Comes down to a simple dichotomy: Warren was slowly torturing/killing Willow. It wasn't supposed to kill her right away. So she wasn't dead. Renee on the other hand, if she is dead like many think she is, then well, she's dead.

But I guess I'm arguing it from the position that she's not dead YET. In that final panel, her eyes are open, and she has a pained/surprised expression on her face. And, if we assume the artwork is an accurate representation of Drew's/Joss's vision, then the pointy end of the Scythe didn't even get her thru the heart, but rather just thru the center of the chest (does anyone even know what vital organs, if any, are in that area?). When Faith staked the deputy mayor, she actually did get him in the heart, and it still took him, what, 20 or 30 seconds to die?

My point is, that without any medical or magical attention, she'll obviously die, and probably pretty darn quickly, but not instantly. So Willow should have time to get her mojo going on her... but whichever way it goes, whether she saves her, or neglects to even try, it's not really a good thing. Making Willow so convenietly powerful back in issue #4 looks to me--at least right now--to be a pretty bad move on Joss's part. Not that I wanted to see her get cut up, killed, or permanently disfigured, but maybe work the story instead where Buffy and Satsu rescue her before Warren ever really gets started...

[kershmuckit]

Willows got Kumiko to deal with, i have a feeling willow's gonna get pretty hurt next issue actually. Kennedy's got to have a reason for showing up and my best guess is willow;s fight with Kumiko is a close one and Kennedy refuses to sit at the sidelines anymore.