matthewblake
Respected Watcher
Is it bright where you are?[Mo0:0]
Posts: 588
|
Post by matthewblake on Feb 1, 2008 23:16:06 GMT -5
I think because Sarah Michelle Gellar was older than the character Buffy, it didn't seem as obviously weird.
|
|
matthewblake
Respected Watcher
Is it bright where you are?[Mo0:0]
Posts: 588
|
Post by matthewblake on Feb 2, 2008 9:49:09 GMT -5
I'm 20, and no thanks! Even though 5 years is not a big difference. It is at this point in life. I'm in a much different place than the average 15 year old.
|
|
Amanda
Common Vampire
You get fangs, I'll get horny.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 64
|
Post by Amanda on Feb 2, 2008 10:50:48 GMT -5
hahah I voted yes. It still disturbs me how Angel was casually following her around (speaking nicely) since she was in LA. But kudos to the writers, they pulled off a non-weird vibe with it.
|
|
numfar
Innocent Bystander
I do the Dance of Joy!
Posts: 24
|
Post by numfar on Feb 3, 2008 0:16:46 GMT -5
I vote no. Mostly because Angel isn't portrayed as having a penchant for underage girls. The guy is over 200, so every girl he dates will be a younger girl. At what point does he cease make a distinction between a girl 160 years younger and 180 years younger? At some stage of the game they must surely ALL seem like naive, unwise and frail beings to him.
However, consider that Buffy, being a Slayer, posesses wisdom, strength and power beyond her years, as well as being a beautiful girl. Angel, having a soul, surely must find her to be a singularly unqiue woman, regardless of her age. I find his attraction to her to be, from his perspective, a matter of purely reflex and heartfelt instinct. I think, too, that Angel is a bit reticent based on her age but can't deny that she is more woman to him than other "normal" women twice her age.
Angel never seemed to be attracted to her based on her age. Darla brings this point up, does she not? In her schoolgirl outfit? I forget what he says to her, but my point is that it's not a fetish or turn-on for him. He loves Buffy for who she is as a person, and that doesn't change as she gets older.
Another point to keep in mind is that Angel has lived through times when women were of age to marry and bear children far below what we consider the age of consent. Granted, he has gotten used to modern life, but for the majority of his existence this was not considered a crime. However, he never seems to bring that up as a crutch or an excuse to justify his attraction to, or love for, Buffy.
Angel has shown no attraction to other underage girls, and in fact as far as I can recall. He never shows anything but brotherly love for Dawn, which if he were just perving on teeny-boppers, she would be ripe for that. Every other woman he has had any romantic liasons with have been portrayed as mature adult women, though generally with some sort of spectacular inner strength or strength of character beyond that of most "ordinary" people.
So, is Angel a pervert? I submit, no, he isn't.
-numfar
|
|
numfar
Innocent Bystander
I do the Dance of Joy!
Posts: 24
|
Post by numfar on Feb 3, 2008 0:27:37 GMT -5
So if a guy has an attraction to only ONE underage girl, it's okay? That was not the basis of argument, but it was used as a basis for establishing motive and character. Under extreme circumstances, two people who were of vastly different ages fell in love. He happened to be in his 200's and she was under 18. Her age was not the reason he fell in love with her. It was her character and strength (not purely physical strength either). For that reason, I do not believe his intentions were perverted. If the goal is to justify the relationship between a man over 200 and a girl under 18, then I believe that the extreme circumstances of a Slayer and a Vampire with a soul falling in love transcend the arbitrary morality imposed by an age of consent. From any outside observer's pointof view (meaning characters who aren't aware he's a vamp and she's the Slayer) then yes, his actions would seem perverted, contemptible and legally actionable. The question then becomes... do you want to be Chris Hansen and ask Angel to "please have a seat over there..."? -numfar
|
|
|
Post by MawdurnBukanier on Feb 3, 2008 1:35:14 GMT -5
I totally agree with Numfar, and to put it into a Pylean perspective, there's definate moira, an attraction between two larger than life souls, going on with Buffy and Angel. As Lorne says, "Can't fight Kyrumption, cinnamon buns. It's fate. It's the stars."
|
|
numfar
Innocent Bystander
I do the Dance of Joy!
Posts: 24
|
Post by numfar on Feb 3, 2008 12:29:49 GMT -5
So what if a guy in his 20s truely falls in love with a 15 year old girl? Their souls connect, they're total soulmates in his eyes. And he's not attracted to her for her youth. Does that make it okay? I don't think so. In modern society between two non-supernatural human beings, no it's not acceptable. However, in a fantasy universe with two mythical, legendary, supernatural and larger-than-life heroes, it was portrayed as something that was transcendant and beautiful, even it was doomed to fail, much like all tragic romance throughout the history of dramatic fiction. Joss tends toward themes of putting ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances, and also putting extraordinary people into somewhat ordinary circumstances. Very rarely are there absolutes of morality. Oftentimes personal judgment and the very act of being in the midst of crisis makes one think differently, though not necessarily correctly. This is a theme pervasive throughout the Buffyverse. I would submit that it was nobody's intention to justify relations with underage girls, nor was it the reason for Angel's motivations, it simply happened and they made the best of an awkward (on so many levels) situation. Is it normal or acceptable in the real world? No. But then again very little of what happens in dramatic fiction would be acceptable, but then it's not dramatic if there isn't a conflict within the connection. -numfar
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Feb 3, 2008 14:46:08 GMT -5
So what if a guy in his 20s truely falls in love with a 15 year old girl? Their souls connect, they're total soulmates in his eyes. And he's not attracted to her for her youth. Does that make it okay? I don't think so. Aren't you driving this into the ground somewhat? In real life law it would be illegal, although I doubt there'd be many cases of a 200 year old man starting a relationship with a 15 year old girl. Everyone knows life is never that black and white, and Angel clearly isn't simply attracted to young girls as he's only ever got into a relationship with one lass in that situation, and even then it was resisted. What response are you pushing for?
|
|
|
Post by MawdurnBukanier on Feb 3, 2008 18:54:48 GMT -5
So what if a guy in his 20s truely falls in love with a 15 year old girl? Their souls connect, they're total soulmates in his eyes. And he's not attracted to her for her youth. Does that make it okay? I don't think so. Why wouldn't it be? If nobody is being exploited and they both really have the best of intentions then why does it matter? Sure it would be illegal in the US, but laws are designed to protect the majority of its citizens, not give us moral absolutes.
|
|
|
Post by MawdurnBukanier on Feb 4, 2008 0:07:46 GMT -5
So in every single case a 15 year old is too immature to date anyone over 18? What is it about 3 trips around the sun that makes everyone suddenly mature and responsible? I know someone who was dating a 14 year old when he was 19 and I'm quite sure that he was not exploiting her in any way while they were together. Why even post a poll when all you do is tell everybody else that they're wrong? Post a blog next time.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Feb 4, 2008 6:23:04 GMT -5
Mikey's the new iron fist of the law it seems.
No. A 15 year old girl isn't always being expoilted when dating an older man.
|
|
|
Post by henzINNIT on Feb 4, 2008 10:39:43 GMT -5
Mikey's the new iron fist of the law it seems. No. A 15 year old girl isn't always being expoilted when dating an older man. *slowly backs away and calls Dateline* *Stands proud as a man who isn't close-minded*
|
|
Amanda
Common Vampire
You get fangs, I'll get horny.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 64
|
Post by Amanda on Feb 4, 2008 12:41:27 GMT -5
Mikey's the new iron fist of the law it seems. No. A 15 year old girl isn't always being expoilted when dating an older man. *slowly backs away and calls Dateline* Hahahah! Creepy.
|
|
|
Post by endofautumn on Feb 5, 2008 21:34:10 GMT -5
lol no angel isnt a pervert, he just saw buffy and fell for her, no matter their ages. If you think of it rationally then yes its odd. But if i were 200+ and saw buffy at 16, id fall for her too im sure
|
|
|
Post by chosenone87 on Feb 5, 2008 22:28:55 GMT -5
I'm 20, and no thanks! Even though 5 years is not a big difference. It is at this point in life. I'm in a much different place than the average 15 year old. yes. but as i said before, its all about maturity. buffy and angel were both at the same maturity level and the same place emotionally as each other.
|
|
|
Post by chosenone87 on Feb 5, 2008 22:31:22 GMT -5
Erm I'm sorry, but the 15 year old would be being exploited, in real life. Even if she really was "in love" with the older gentleman. We can debate playfully about Angel/Buffy, but when it comes to real life dude...no. 15 is a kid. yes but buffy is more of an adult than your average 15 year old. i think that you are taking this waaaay out of context mikey
|
|
|
Post by SlayerLV on Feb 6, 2008 0:42:32 GMT -5
The thing is though he fell in "love" with her when she was 15 not in "lust" so there is no perversion in love.
|
|
|
Post by SlayerLV on Feb 6, 2008 1:08:20 GMT -5
No I wouldn't call someone who fell in love with a 15 year old a pervert, now if the person acted out his love by having a sexual relationship with that girl or fantasized about that girl in a sexual way then yes I would call him a pervert.
|
|
|
Post by SlayerLV on Feb 6, 2008 1:34:15 GMT -5
That's not always true, think of best friends we love them and there's no sexual attraction there. But I do see where you are coming from.
|
|
|
Post by endofautumn on Feb 6, 2008 10:01:22 GMT -5
Its 100% possible to fall in love with someone and not sleep with them.
ITs not like Angel just wanted her for sex, seeing they waited a while before sleeping together
|
|