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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 3, 2010 11:05:14 GMT -5
This may not be the end of the shocking turns. I have a sneaky feeling Twilight if it is Giles will turn Buffy and have her go against Willow. This would tie in to the issue of how Willow turns evil again. Giles already had a big influence on Buffy and she almost always followed what Giles told her. He was and in many ways he still is her Watcher. She looks up to him and wants his approval. So the quotes from Twilight would fit him in some ways - "I know that move, Slayer." being among the most famous remarks he gave. As for Giles having magic...well, it's clear after his duel with Dark Willow in Season 6 Giles is a warlock. Maybe the most powerful one of them all.
So in a nutshell, Buffy would trust Giles over Willow. Even if he is Twilight...she'll follow him. Even forgive him for all he's done. Why? Because in many ways Giles is Buffy's father figure now that Hank is no longer there. So a turn with Buffy betraying Willow will be very hard to watch. Shocking even. I'm still trying to figure out Dark Willow's message though by allowing Buffy to kill her. Once I figure this out...then it will all fit together.
There is one thing that I keep thinking about. Remember the conversation Buffy had with Giles back in Season 5 before Buffy had to confront Glory? Buffy warned Giles if something happened to Dawn...she'd go after him. I'm wondering if the shocking death could be Dawn. Buffy will initially follow Twilight...but if she found out Twilight/Giles killed Dawn Buffy would turn against him.
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cant
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Post by cant on Jan 3, 2010 12:24:40 GMT -5
Sorry But Giles was never a warlock he cast a lot of spells but its because he is good with ocultism and have some kind watcher magic training like wesley .He barrowed magics from actual witches of england coven to stop Dark willo.So he is only magician not witch/warlock
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 3, 2010 13:03:59 GMT -5
Sorry But Giles was never a warlock he cast a lot of spells but its because he is good with ocultism and have some kind watcher magic training like wesley .He barrowed magics from actual witches of england coven to stop Dark willo.So he is only magician not witch/warlock Rodin was a warlock and knew Giles. So Giles definitely has warlock training.
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cant
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Post by cant on Jan 3, 2010 13:14:13 GMT -5
Roden knows him because he is training gigi against buffy so he have to know buffys group. there is nothing in the comics indicating what you said.Also i m very doubtfull about every wtich/warlockhas to know every witch/warlock too.Willow is the only witch/warlock in buffys core group(there was also tara .But she is dead )
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jan 3, 2010 13:29:13 GMT -5
As for Giles being a warlock cant is correct. Giles borrowed the magic he used to fight Dark Willow. Although Giles isn't a warlock, if he was Twilight and had the watchers council behind him with all the other contacts Twilight has, it wouldn't be impossible for Giles to tap into unimaginable magic. Just because he isn't a warlock as such, doesn't mean he isn't Twilight.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Billie Erin on Jan 3, 2010 13:43:36 GMT -5
I agree with Midnight Butterfly, humans can cast powerful spells- not only witches and warlocks- therefore Giles could be Twilight, and also if he borrowed magic before surely he can do it again? After the recent issue focusing on him and Faith where the "watchers" feeding slayers to the demon were killed isn't it plausible that he took any power they may have had?
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cant
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Post by cant on Jan 3, 2010 14:31:47 GMT -5
Ofcourse he can be Twilight and / or cast powerfull spells .İ just want to say he isnt warlock.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 3, 2010 15:33:34 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think it's Buffy who created Twilight. Remember the issue with Buffy going back to the past in "cartoon mode" to see the people who are no longer alive like Joyce..her mother? In that issue...Buffy blurted out the truth to Giles that she would be leading a whole army of Slayers. This was PAST Giles. Somehow her revelation to Giles may have changed the timeline causing Giles to realize Buffy was wrong and needed to be stopped. Willow revived Buffy back in Season 6 but she may have allowed a window of opportunity to exist and allowed past Giles into the present timeline. So in effect we have two Giles.
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
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Post by Billie Erin on Jan 3, 2010 15:39:26 GMT -5
That's a really good theory and it would end all the arguments that Twilight can't be a Scooby because they're all in Tibet while he's not. The Toyl arc has people so focused on the future that nobody really seems to be considering past people as options
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Post by Jonography on Jan 3, 2010 19:03:27 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think it's Buffy who created Twilight. Remember the issue with Buffy going back to the past in "cartoon mode" to see the people who are no longer alive like Joyce..her mother? In that issue...Buffy blurted out the truth to Giles that she would be leading a whole army of Slayers. This was PAST Giles. Somehow her revelation to Giles may have changed the timeline causing Giles to realize Buffy was wrong and needed to be stopped. Willow revived Buffy back in Season 6 but she may have allowed a window of opportunity to exist and allowed past Giles into the present timeline. So in effect we have two Giles. There are a couple things wrong with this sadly. First off, would be that this entire "past" is a dream that Buffy is having, so it is unknown if it actually happened or not. Secondly, this would mean that if anything, Willow would have caused a temporal fold or whatever you wish to call it that reached that specific "dreamverse" if you may (which, depending on exactly how the magicks would work in the Buffyverse, would probably be very hard, as there are countless dimensions in existance), and allowed Giles to pass through. Then, even more so, Giles would have came back during the events of Season 6, and would have tried to stop her before she even got a chance to have Willow awake all of the existing Potential Slayer's abilities. (Based on how the time travel (and assumed dimensional travel) has been shown in the series so far, including Doppelgangland and ToYL)
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Billie Erin
Ensouled Vampire
"I go back to December"
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Post by Billie Erin on Jan 4, 2010 9:47:21 GMT -5
Ok maybe this is a long shot- and maybe its been said before- but I'm beginning to think that maybe Twilgiht is Tara. Here are some reasons why: 1) Ok I know he looks like a guy and Tara's definitely a girl but magic could fix this: Xzander: "Will honey, RJ's a guy" Wiilow: "That's why I'm doing my spell, cos you know he doesn't have to be"- "Him", season 7 2) Tara's a witch and was originally more powerful than Willow so it's fair to say that, given enough time, she evolve like Willow and could learn to fly etc. like Twilight can 3) Why did the first not appear as Tara in the season 7 episode "Conversations with Dead People". Yeah I know, maybe Amber Benson just wasn't available, but maybe it was because Tara isn't actrually dead. She was shot- normal humans survive being shot all the time and it isn't like warren was aiming for her so it's unlikely that the bullet got her right in the heart . . . 4) If Twilight were Tara it would explain the appearance of a one-shot focusing on Willow's relationships in the middle of the climatic final arcs. It would also explain why there's been so much focus on Willow and her relationships throughout the season as a whole. 5) Tara broke up with Willow over her magic so may want to abolish magic as Twilight seemingly wants to 6) One of the first things we're supposed to think when twilight is unmasked is "why is that person an enemy to Buffy?" and Tara would definitely fit this description 7) If Tara were Twilight her motive may be to abolish magic before it can turn willow evil, as Willow has always been her main priority. 8) Why is Tara returning to help Willow now? Well until this point Willow has believed herself to be a murderer and maybe Tara believed the same, but now Warren has been proven to be alive and Willow is innocent so Tara can finally help her and return to her 9) Tara knew of both Amy and Warren so employing them would be a possibility for her I know most of this is probably way out, I was just brainstorming
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jan 4, 2010 10:50:04 GMT -5
Yeah it could be the Immortal. All of the theorys above seem to make sense, well most of them. I don't want it to be the Immortal, but just because I don't want it doesn't mean it won't happen. No matter who we believe Twilight is there are always going to be things that don't add up, reason being is the fact Joss doesn't want us to find out. If we thought someone was Twilight, added everything up, everything made sense, no problems and everyone was 100% sure it was Twilight, were would the fun in that be? Joss doesn't want us to find out and thats why everything doesn't add up. I think the season eight comics have been done brilliantly in that way.
EDIT - Wow. I replied to an earlier page post. I was on the wrong page lol.
Okay, as for Twlight being Tara, it would be really cool and I would be so happy. Joss or someone said the reason for Tara appearing in the Willow one-shot is to say goodbye and to tell fans that Tara is in the past, this ofcourse kinda says Twilight isn't Tara. It was also said something like Willows relationships will some back in season 9, or something like that sorry if i'm wrong. Anyway, it would be cool but I dont think its true.
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Post by Jonography on Jan 4, 2010 16:36:19 GMT -5
To be honest, although The Immortal is the closest assumption I think we have to who it would be, I don't think it could be him, if it's someone we've seen before. The Immortal actually isn't even shown in BtVS, only in Angel. He's only mentioned in BtVS. I don't think Joss would bring in someone who wasn't even in this specific series, and say we've seen them before, especially when not everyone who watched Buffy watched Angel and vice versa.
As for Tara being Twilight, again, I don't find this too much of a plausible guess either. Because of her character, I'm pretty sure Tara would never blame Buffy for her death and what came to be because of it. If anything, she would have more of a grudge against Warren, and thus wouldn't have ended up working with him. but again, however, it really isn't in her character to point fingers, blame, and take revenge upon.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 6, 2010 7:13:02 GMT -5
I took a close look at the Jo Chen cover art for issue #33 and I noticed something odd. I believe the cover is being shown backward. If you put a mirror in front and THEN look at the cover...you'll understand why. Twilight is Xander.
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angelsclone
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Post by angelsclone on Jan 6, 2010 10:24:21 GMT -5
i tried looking at it in the mirror but i dont see where your going with this.. except that it looks like xander..appearances arent everything with covers though..
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jan 6, 2010 11:21:36 GMT -5
Yea, I doubt they would give away too much with the covers.
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Post by DorothyFan1 on Jan 6, 2010 18:25:48 GMT -5
Yea, I doubt they would give away too much with the covers. I looked closely at the image. That is clearly a patch on Twilight's face. But it's on the right side. Xander's patch is on the LEFT eye. But after looking at the cover more carefully I was getting the distinct impression this cover is being shown backwards to throw people off the identity of Twilight. I still think that's the case here. So I was wondering "what if" we turned the image "backwards". Then it makes sense. The patch is now on the left side of the face...just like Xander. Plus the hand is taking the mask off with the RIGHT hand...IF you turn the image around. That's important because Xander is NOT left handed. If you don't think they give away clues in the covers...think again. The Willow variant cover by George Jeanty gives a big hint. Someone said it was a strange coincidence when I pointed out Willow's right hand is using the dog shape symbol when you throw shadows on the wall. When you turn "dog" around...you get "god". The hint in that variant cover is saying Willow is now a god.
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CourtneyDax
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Post by CourtneyDax on Jan 7, 2010 1:42:32 GMT -5
Well billieerin, your theory on Tara is very interesting but I just cannot believe that Tara would ever become someone who could fight and kill without feeling bad. Tara was one of the most caring and loving characters in the Buffy series. She would never blame Buffy for her death. But the evidence you gathered was very legit though!
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Post by Midnight Butterfly on Jan 7, 2010 3:55:21 GMT -5
Yea, I doubt they would give away too much with the covers. I looked closely at the image. That is clearly a patch on Twilight's face. But it's on the right side. Xander's patch is on the LEFT eye. But after looking at the cover more carefully I was getting the distinct impression this cover is being shown backwards to throw people off the identity of Twilight. I still think that's the case here. So I was wondering "what if" we turned the image "backwards". Then it makes sense. The patch is now on the left side of the face...just like Xander. Plus the hand is taking the mask off with the RIGHT hand...IF you turn the image around. That's important because Xander is NOT left handed. If you don't think they give away clues in the covers...think again. The Willow variant cover by George Jeanty gives a big hint. Someone said it was a strange coincidence when I pointed out Willow's right hand is using the dog shape symbol when you throw shadows on the wall. When you turn "dog" around...you get "god". The hint in that variant cover is saying Willow is now a god. Thats actually quite interesting. If if it Xander I will be both very happy, very angry at him and very interested in the reason why.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Jan 7, 2010 8:32:29 GMT -5
I favor the Twilight=Future Giles theory over Twilight=Future Xander simply because it would require a total personality reversal for it to be Xander. I can imagine Twilight's way of speaking coming out of Giles' mouth, but not Xander's. (Or Spike's.)
Giles and Xander both have equal plausibility trails that could lead to them becoming Twilight, IMO.
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