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Post by wenxina on Jan 22, 2009 15:07:18 GMT -5
Just a note to all to keep this PG-13... it is a wading pool. I know people get away with a lot with PG-13, but keep it kid-friendly.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 22, 2009 15:20:48 GMT -5
Angel and Spike together is a little too weird. They both seem to be dominant. Who would bend over and take it? Unless Angelus raped Spike. I doubt Spike would have said it so nonchalant if that's how it went down... Of course, it's Spike, so we can't assume that he's not okay with being raped. He isn't exactly into vanilla sex. PS. Bending over isn't the only way to do it. There's BEEP and different kinds of "kissing" and BEEP BEEEEEP BEEEEP.... Many ways that doesn't necassarily need one dominant and one submissive.
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rufio
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Post by rufio on Jan 22, 2009 15:23:07 GMT -5
Angel and Spike together is a little too weird. They both seem to be dominant. Who would bend over and take it? Unless Angelus raped Spike. So what if they're both dominant-remember SPUFFY?! I'd say buffy & spike were both on the same level as far as sexual dominance goes. Angel & Spike would probably be the same- but I doubt they actually had full blown sex.
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 22, 2009 16:36:39 GMT -5
It could mean it was an accident of some sort. Maybe a glamor or something or a spell like with Angel and Cordelia!
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 22, 2009 16:43:39 GMT -5
Um, Angel is not the type? Who are you to say? It's Joss's character. I know, just saying is all... LOL Angel is not the type, Angelus maybe but Angel, no... Care to back that up? Because the "Because that's what I say" attitude you've got really isn't convincing. Do please tell what's got you so sure. And let's not play the 'sex=perfect happiness' route. Angel's had sex at least twice without losing his soul so...yea. (Darla/Eve) It's simply stated fact: Spike and Angel, souled or otherwise, have had at least one 'intimate' encounter. That's all there is to it really. Darla and Dru aren't relevant here, or else they'd've gotten a mention either by Spike or Joss probably. Then again, intimacy with four people's possible...and who says the other two would've been the vamp gals? Coulda been two random vamp fanboys ^.^ I am not stating a fact, and I have no "what I say attitude" I am just saying what I think, and I can say want I want. I don’t really care one way or the other… they could have been intimate with a 100 male vamp? lol
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rogue11
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Post by rogue11 on Jan 23, 2009 12:05:34 GMT -5
I never noticed how many Whedonverse fans on this forum are gay or bisexual, thats so cool:) I am too, very neat. Okay Andrew bein gay wouldn't be such a big deal would it? Maybe he's bi because he's shown interest in women and the way he would talk about guys sometimes, I dunno something could be there. People were calling me gay and stuff before i even realized it myself so you never know. As you cans ee from this discussion there are gay/bi people out there, many of which are guys, who wouldn't mind seeing a gay male character in the Buffy series, it would just be cool to see how Joss and Co. would handle that kind of character. There are many lesbian storylines out there that do a terrific job of portraying a gay love story. There just aren't many kind of stories out there that show gay men in healthy serious relationships. Maybe i'm wrong but the whole point of starting this discussion was to say that there arent enough gay characters out there that are more than just gay, its like if they are thats all they talk about. Which i can understand because when you question your sexuality it can become such a strong focus in your life until you feel comfortable with what your orientation is. But I thought that Joss would be a good person to show how gay men can be more than just guys who are gay, that they can have substance to them, that they can fall in love and have these wicked bonds like Willow and Tara.
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Nicholas
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Post by Nicholas on Jan 24, 2009 18:55:30 GMT -5
Im sure that Joss can work a very good male male relationship on the show but I really don't feel that its necessary. The gay theme was already told so I don't feel that we need another.
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rufio
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Post by rufio on Jan 24, 2009 19:49:53 GMT -5
You've already made that point very clear nicholas. But a male- male relationship can explore many themes besides 'the gay theme'-whatever that means. Look at all the different themes/issues explored with willow + tara + kennedy-and even buffy + satsu. It's not just about being gay, it's about people-their emotions and relationships.
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Post by Without Passion on Jan 24, 2009 21:16:45 GMT -5
Haha, what the hell is a "gay theme"?
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Paul
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Post by Paul on Jan 24, 2009 22:27:45 GMT -5
While I agree that LGBT characters are sufficiently represented in the Buffyverse, the fact that there have already been gay relationships doesn't mean there can't be more. Rufio is right in saying that not all gay relationships are the same, and Willow/Tara werenever defined soley as the "gay" couple. So far all the homosexual relationships in Buffy have been just as diverse as the straight ones, no reason to think another one would be repetitive.
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Saturn 5
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Post by Saturn 5 on Jan 25, 2009 6:45:27 GMT -5
I think that's a question of the nature of homophobia. A lot of straight guys dislike homosexuality because they consider it un-masculine (personally I always thought they should be happy, it leaves more girls for them?). By contrast by being a lesbian it doesn't make you less feminine. No one ever goes lesbian-bashing? Besides society is more accepting of women sharing physical affection with each other, literally from the moment girls are born they're taught that it's ok to be physically intimate with another woman, starting with their mother. If you think of Xena, she and Gabby hold hands, kiss, sleep in each other's arms, stroke each other's hair, tell one another they love them and jump into the hot tub together. But if you wanted to you could just believe they're still just very close female friends. If you saw 2 girls holding hands you wouldn't necessarily think they were gay, they could be sisters or mother and daughter or just very close female friends. Now imagine if Hercules and Iolaus did all that? I remember a discussion at university where 2 girls and 2 guys had to share 2 single rooms for the night. The girls just jumped into the single bed together whilst the guys flipped a coin and one of them slept on the floor. Which all the girls took as further evidence of women's innate superiority to men. And to break it down further, every straight guy I know, no matter how homphobic, loves the idea of girl/girl action, even if they're not involved. :-*I must say I've never found any girl who finds man-on-man the least appealing although I do know a few who'd like to be in the centre of some
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 25, 2009 7:18:49 GMT -5
They could always bring Scott (Buffy's boy friend at the start of season 3) back as a Boyfriend for Andrew...
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 25, 2009 7:45:39 GMT -5
^ Why? By contrast by being a lesbian it doesn't make you less feminine. All the women with buzz-cuts and baggy checked shirts I've seen begs to differ lol.
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Hallow Thorn
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Post by Hallow Thorn on Jan 25, 2009 8:46:28 GMT -5
Joke?
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rufio
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Post by rufio on Jan 25, 2009 8:51:26 GMT -5
I think that's a question of the nature of homophobia. A lot of straight guys dislike homosexuality because they consider it un-masculine (personally I always thought they should be happy, it leaves more girls for them?). By contrast by being a lesbian it doesn't make you less feminine. No one ever goes lesbian-bashing? Besides society is more accepting of women sharing physical affection with each other, literally from the moment girls are born they're taught that it's ok to be physically intimate with another woman, starting with their mother. If you think of Xena, she and Gabby hold hands, kiss, sleep in each other's arms, stroke each other's hair, tell one another they love them and jump into the hot tub together. But if you wanted to you could just believe they're still just very close female friends. If you saw 2 girls holding hands you wouldn't necessarily think they were gay, they could be sisters or mother and daughter or just very close female friends. Now imagine if Hercules and Iolaus did all that? I remember a discussion at university where 2 girls and 2 guys had to share 2 single rooms for the night. The girls just jumped into the single bed together whilst the guys flipped a coin and one of them slept on the floor. Which all the girls took as further evidence of women's innate superiority to men. And to break it down further, every straight guy I know, no matter how homphobic, loves the idea of girl/girl action, even if they're not involved. :-*I must say I've never found any girl who finds man-on-man the least appealing although I do know a few who'd like to be in the centre of some actually people do go lesbian-bashing. www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/534469but you're totally right about the difference between men & women. And it totally doesn't make sense how most men are more homophobic-but only when it comes to men. They don't have any problems with girl on girl b/c it turns them on! Disgusting if you ask me. Girl on girl is just as gay as guy on guy!
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jan 25, 2009 11:20:14 GMT -5
Haha, what the hell is a "gay theme"? Kinda like a outsider theme, date theme, witch theme, werewolf theme, relationship theme, etcetc. For example, when an episode, scene, issue, panel has a "message" or it has a certain... meaning-thing... At least that's how I used it. But to be fair, English is my second language. There's probably a better term for it... I And to break it down further, every straight guy I know, no matter how homphobic, loves the idea of girl/girl action, even if they're not involved. :-*I must say I've never found any girl who finds man-on-man the least appealing although I do know a few who'd like to be in the centre of some *raising my hand* I like man on man action, even if I'm not a part of it, not even a watching part of it. But being a part of it would definitly be the ideal. Some Angel on Spike on me action. I guess Xander could watch too. And Wesley. And Giles is very charming.... Yep, I'm a BEEP.
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Saturn 5
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Post by Saturn 5 on Jan 25, 2009 11:24:07 GMT -5
I think it's almost a question of men being obsessed with women but women not really being that obsessed with men. If you walk into a newsagent every men's magazine has a beautiful woman on the cover because that's what men like to see. And the women's magazines? They all have a beautiful woman on the cover too. Off course freudians would say that this all boils down to mother issues (like everything), that a newborn baby of whatever gender prefers it's mother's face to any other from it's first day of life whilst our love for our fathers is something we acquire over time. I'm not really convinced by that, I think it may be a matter of with women the emotional content is more important than the physical. Remember Willow tells Kennedy she didn't fall in love with women, she fell in love with 'A Woman', she fell in love and that person happened to be female (as with Buffy and Satsu?) I remember reading a very interesting book called 'Self-Made Man' where a lesbian journalist disguises herself and lives as a man for year. As part of this she dates a load of women but tells them the truth before things get to the physical stage. Yet several of them still end up having sex with her, they've made the emotional connection and that's more important to them than gender Of course, if these were guys who discovered they were actually dating another guy they'd probably have killed him.
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Saturn 5
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Post by Saturn 5 on Jan 25, 2009 14:05:51 GMT -5
By contrast by being a lesbian it doesn't make you less feminine. All the women with buzz-cuts and baggy checked shirts I've seen begs to differ lol.[/quote] A stereotype methinks?
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Post by wenxina on Jan 25, 2009 14:37:15 GMT -5
Maybe a stereotype, but you can't deny that a whole bunch out there exist. Your sweeping statement failed to account for that.
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Post by henzINNIT on Jan 25, 2009 15:42:32 GMT -5
^ Exactomondo.
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