Malsad
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Attack Attack!
[Mo0:37]
Posts: 684
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Post by Malsad on Feb 5, 2009 18:13:57 GMT -5
ok just making sure
and yes it was the term
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Feb 5, 2009 21:47:35 GMT -5
Well it just seems odd to me that Vampires are such a huge deal and everyone loves them yet you have ALL of LA which is against them.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Feb 5, 2009 22:06:41 GMT -5
Well it just seems odd to me that Vampires are such a huge deal and everyone loves them yet you have ALL of LA which is against them. Nope. Have you read the latest ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL? |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 5, 2009 23:22:37 GMT -5
Well it just seems odd to me that Vampires are such a huge deal and everyone loves them yet you have ALL of LA which is against them. Nope. Have you read the latest ANGEL: AFTER THE FALL? Actually, while the people of L.A. know Angel as a good guy, they also know through experience that most vampires are vicious killers. So Harmony's "all vamps are romantic and cuddly misunderstood people" act should not be holding water in L.A... where her show is based. |
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pablo
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:0]
Posts: 101
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Post by pablo on Feb 6, 2009 9:40:37 GMT -5
just read the issue. i've got to say, this Predators and Preys arc seems to be getting better issue after issue. i loved harmonic divergence, although i still mourn soledad, and swell is even better. i think this new standalones-grouped-in-a-bigger-arc format is the way to go; at the end of each issue there is a sort of closure, solution to the standalone's story, which is satisfying and also offers an insight to the single characters' developements. satsu is definitely worthy of a place in the scoobies, i've grown to like here even though i completely agains the batsu hook-up in WATG. and kennedy, whoa, she's probably (along from connor in ATF) the only character that's been redeemed at the eyes of most of the fandom - she's gone from an obnoxious and annoying character in season 7 to a likeable scooby-counterpart. the vampy cats are such a cool medium to show how harmony's vamp craze has been capitalizing people's interest and how this is making twilight and vampire's forces taking over so easy. it also seems to me that this arc is a resolution arc - the scoobies are focusing and regrouping, using the knowledge and the experience matured in the past arcs to face this crisis, which is probably affecting them on a moral basis as well, but we'll probably see more of this in the next few standalones. the consequences of their plans, and their offensive against twilight will develop in the next arc, right now, storytelling-wise this arc is serving the same way the eps between Bring On the Night and Storyteller did with season 7 - paving the way for the big battle, the showdown, building up the character's moral convinction and also eventually developing the backstory for the villain. i expect lots of clues and hints about s.8's end to be dropped whithin PAP's pages. it's also great to see buffy back on track - she's clearly still got her doubts and questions, as she's always had, about power and her convinction of doing good, which have both been undermined by twilight's actions. she's put her personal troubles on hold to do damage control and protect her linage, not to mention the people she loves. i have yet to understand the full consequences of harmony's impact on people, not to mention ATF and LA's tie to all of it, but I guess it'll all be explained once ATF ends (sadly  ). anyway bring on #23! this is by far my favourite arc, up here with NFFY, and since Faith's going to show up soon enough, PAP is likely to become my favourite arc ever. |
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Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Feb 6, 2009 11:46:00 GMT -5
It hurts me to criticise Buffy but I have to say I didn't really like this issue. I loved the preview, and expected more of the same, so was disappointed that there wasn't more interaction between Kennedy and Satsu. Kennedy turned out to be pretty disposable; you could probably have replaced her role with any character and the story would have went the same (Xander might have been a more natural choice, given his experience with unrequited Buffy-love). I don't understand why she has such a specific interest in helping Satsu with her personal problems, it's vaguely implied she may have had a similar experience in the past, but since we the audience know nothing of that encounter, her supposed empathy with Satsu falls flat IMO (unlike say, Giles and Faith, where we know how similar they are and their relationship feels incredibly natural). I was sad to see Kennedy receive little to no development of her own, and simply function as a plot device in Satsu's arc. Other issues... Vampy Cat didn't work for me. I really want to like him, he's such a funny character design, but... meh. We don't know enough about them. Are they an actual specie of demon, or just incorporeal demons possessing the shape of a toy? What is their motive? Why are they randomly sexist and homophobic? Are the Vampy Cats themselves out to kill the Slayers, or Santorio Corp? Or are they one and the same? Also... framing the Slayers for the destruction of stuffed toys? Isn't Twilight kind of above that? It felt like a pretty contrived attempt to connect them to the bigger story. Emmie said to me earlier in this thread that the Vampy Cats work despite being ludicrous because of their role as " the main villain with their own mythos versus a gimmicky side story that's never fleshed out". I think the opposite; I think that the tree people and Mecha Dawn and all the other crazy crap worked because they were throwaway, whereas the Vampy Cats were too one-dimensional to convince as a supposedly threatening villain. As for Satsu's story, she had a strong beginning and end to her arc this issue, but I'm not so sure about the stuff in between? I'm not sure what relevance Vampy Cat/Santorio Corp were supposed to have to her story. There were clearly some themes of sexism and female opression, but that's not what Satsu was dealing with? Pretty disappointing when you compare it to stories where the monsters mimic the character's problems, like "I Only Have Eyes for You" and numerous others. Also, what was it that made Satsu decide to "find a new flavour"? Kennedy's advice? Battling the Vampy Cats? Some have suggested Buffy's cold professionalism in the video, but if that was the case, I think it could have been made clearer. Buffy has always been cold with Satsu when it comes to the mission, what made Satsu think this time would be different. It seemed to go; Act 1, Kennedy advises Satsu on her problem. Act 2, Kennedy and Satsu fight random demons that have nothing to do with anything. Act 3, Satsu comes to random conclusion about her problem based on nothing. Basically, I think 1 and 3 were both good, but the journey in between was lacking. I'm being extremely harsh on this issue, but I'd still give it like 7/10. It's just that I've come to expect a lot more from Season Eight and this isn't the Buffy standard. Both this and the last issue have felt rather rushed, maybe it's a case of televison writers struggling to adapt to the new media? Or am I being unfair with that? It also felt like this issue kind of shot it's load if you'll pardon the expression, because all the good stuff was in the preview. I do love Kennedy, even if her role was a little forced, and it's great to see a more assertive, grown-up, and very competent Satsu. I'm happy to see their relationship progress in platonic sense. Seeing "that idiot" Harmony on Larry King made me laugh, and I hope she continues to make brief media appearances throughout this arc. Random shout-out to Gunyarr, the demon at the start. I felt so sorry for him, the poor bastard was probably just trying to earn a living via deliveries and he got chopped up, betrayed, and killed. Poor Gunyarr-san.  |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 6, 2009 11:58:33 GMT -5
It hurts me to criticise Buffy but I have to say I didn't really like this issue. Sounds like you had almost exactly the same problems with it I did. I'm glad someone else felt the same way. But darnit, Season 8, I just can't stay mad at you...*sigh* |
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Feb 6, 2009 15:48:10 GMT -5
Nothing much to say beyond what's already been said, but I also thought that this was a great issue.  The Vampy Cats were a little too reminiscent of "Smile Time" for me, but they still worked okay. The preview had me a little worried that DeKnight was going to do a 180 on Satsu's character from what was shown in WatG, where she had a very mature and realistic attitude about her thing with Buffy (and it's ultimate doomed-ness), but it ended up being handled very well here. And Xi, sorry, but I still haven't seen enough yet to convince me that Twilight's a mysoginistic bastard with an anti-woman agenda.  Maybe in a few more issues, but not yet... |
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Post by wenxina on Feb 6, 2009 16:19:18 GMT -5
And Xi, sorry, but I still haven't seen enough yet to convince me that Twilight's a mysoginistic bastard with an anti-woman agenda. Maybe in a few more issues, but not yet... I'm not so sure about Twilight; my argument was that misogyny was a possible theme, or at least something that the series will continue to play with. Twilight has aligned himself with some misogynistic a-holes: Warren, Voll (which hey, could just hate that there's a master race, regardless of sex, as you argued), and the Vampy Cats. Emmie made the argument that it's possible that Twilight's just aligning himself with them since he wants to take down the Slayer organization, and who better than women hating scoundrels. Which I admit is true. Guess we'll see. |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 6, 2009 16:26:39 GMT -5
His words to Buffy in "A Beautiful Sunset" were decidedly misogynistic, weren't they?
Or was it just professional wrestler machismo?
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Feb 6, 2009 16:43:45 GMT -5
And Xi, sorry, but I still haven't seen enough yet to convince me that Twilight's a mysoginistic bastard with an anti-woman agenda. Maybe in a few more issues, but not yet... I'm not so sure about Twilight; my argument was that misogyny was a possible theme, or at least something that the series will continue to play with. Twilight has aligned himself with some misogynistic a-holes: Warren, Voll (which hey, could just hate that there's a master race, regardless of sex, as you argued), and the Vampy Cats. Emmie made the argument that it's possible that Twilight's just aligning himself with them since he wants to take down the Slayer organization, and who better than women hating scoundrels. Which I admit is true. Guess we'll see. Okay, I stand corrected then. But yeah, I agree with Emmie that Twilight wants to take out the slayers, and he'll use whatever means he can. They're all women, so who better than minions who hate women? I'd be disappointed if one of the season's major themes was anti-female-empowerment, because I feel like that was already done at the end of S7 with Caleb, and we'd just be going back over ground that's already been covered. I still think it's a mistake to try to read too much into Buffy's little mini-diatribe at the end of #4, where she jumps to the immediate conclusion that the Twilight group hates them not because they're powerful, but because they're powerful women. That actually makes me worry about her state of mind a little bit, and wonder just how paranoid she might've become, and if she's developing any sort of persecution complex. I guess going toe-to-toe with Warren and Caleb each of the past couple of seasons could have that effect on a person, but hopefully it's something that'll wear off as time goes by... Whatever Twilight's beef with Buffy and her crew is, I really hope that the simple fact that they're women isn't a major part of it... |
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Post by wenxina on Feb 6, 2009 17:12:11 GMT -5
His words to Buffy in "A Beautiful Sunset" were decidedly misogynistic, weren't they? Or was it just professional wrestler machismo? I took them as such, yes. As decidedly misogynistic. But I guess it could've just been him taunting her, but there are so many ways to taunt a person, why go there. But I'm willing to keep an open mind. |
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Fireball
Common Vampire
Im fire, and I will burn you![Mo0:27]
Posts: 53
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Post by Fireball on Feb 6, 2009 17:32:14 GMT -5
Great issue, awesome to see Kennedy getting more time. Loved the Swell, thought they were great. My only problem was that it felt a little short, and again, hasnt really explained why the world have accepted vampires.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Feb 7, 2009 2:08:36 GMT -5
Based on Scott Allie not answering the question of "Is Twilight behind Harmony's famousness?" question, it leads me to believe that he IS. Which would make me a lot happier and would offer an awesome explanation for why people suddenly, without question, liked vampires.
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Feb 7, 2009 2:10:16 GMT -5
I agree, Tie, I think Twilight is craftier than we give him credit for. I heard someone call him a "boob" recently. For a "boob," he seems pretty smart. I wouldn't wanna cross him.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 7, 2009 9:25:36 GMT -5
The fact that Twilight is definitely behind the Vampy Cats, and the Vampy Cats are directly trading off Harmony's show, I would assume T is behind both of them.
Also, the "C.A.A. agent" we see Harmony biting in "Harmonic Divergence," and who then sits in on her meeting with MTV, appears to be the same "suit" who was with General Voll in TLWH. I'm guessing C.A.A. is either a front agency for Twilight, or a government agency that's working with him (with or without official sanction).
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Feb 7, 2009 10:21:10 GMT -5
That would make sense because of the "no one knows what that stands for."
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●B E N
Rogue Demon Hunter
♥ Goodness Gracious ♥
Crazy Echo[Mo0:4]
Posts: 454
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Post by ●B E N on Feb 7, 2009 10:45:37 GMT -5
I loved this issue. However, it makes me sad that we didn't get more Twilight scoop.. Anyways... it was awesome to see the cute little vampy cats attacking the slayers lol. 'Eat their f*cking ovaries!' was the best line ever. It made me lol and spit out my coffee in front of everyone at Starbucks.  |
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Feb 7, 2009 11:18:46 GMT -5
"Eat their f***ing ovaries."
If I live to be a hundred (and I won't), I'll never understand why people seem to love that line so much.
There seems to have been several major disconnects between me, this issue, and the rest of Buffy fandom.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Feb 7, 2009 11:34:28 GMT -5
"Eat their f***ing ovaries." If I live to be a hundred (and I won't), I'll never understand why people seem to love that line so much. There seems to have been several major disconnects between me, this issue, and the rest of Buffy fandom. Lines that I don't expect and are so outrageous are usually the ones I like the most. So when these amazingly cute stuffed animals scream something like that... I can't help but lose it, sort of like the puppets in Smile Time: DID HE JUST SAY DOUCHE-BAG?! I love that stuff. |
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