Nicholas
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One Good Scare
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Post by Nicholas on Jun 5, 2009 1:53:50 GMT -5
When it comes to Spike still acting the same with his soul as he did without, this was never a problem for me simply because with what we have learned about souls and what they do to the actual body and the personality, Angel (with soul) is the type of person who hides some of his true feelings whereas Spike doesnt. Spike is very upfront and very "Anya-ish" when it comes to how upfront he is. When the human dies, the demon takes over and infects the system, and the soul floats to the ether. The vampire, is basically functioning through the shell and has access to all the traits, thoughts, feelings, and emotions that the soul had, but obviously the demon lacks the soul so it isnt good. Its pure evil. So the vampire, having access to all the thoughts and emotions of the soul, acts upon the dirty little subconsious things that the soul had. Everyone has bad thoughts, say for instance: in High School, we all dream of punching the teacher in the face, but obviously dont do it whereas the vampire would. So in that case, Spike and Angels personalities are completely different. Spike was blunt and Angel wasnt. So, its clear that Spike wouldnt have that much of a drastic change upon getting his soul. He obviously did show some change, thats evident, but it wouldnt be drastic as Angels is.
And for the "error" with Buffy's death: how is that an error? Buffy died at the end of the Gift, but it was clear that the gang thought that her soul was in some Hell Dimension, so they wouldnt have sat around for months and then come to the conclusion. That HAD to be right away, but Willow knew Giles would never allow something like that so she kept it a secret. But in order to maintain the illusion, she had to bury Buffy. Even if they wanted the rest of the world to continue thinking she was alive using the Buffy-bot, they arent going to disrespect her memory by putting her into the ground with another headstone on it. And the grave looked to be in seclusion from what I can remember, so it could be safe to say, they chose that spot so not many would fall upon it. And if a demon did fall upon it and thought to himself "The Slayers dead!?" he would then turn and see the Buffy-bot and probably not give it another thought.
The stunt doubles have always been an issue, but if you really get into it, it can be easier to ignore. Jane Espenson even comments how dissapointed she was with the Lunch Lady's stunt double as she is clearly much lighter in weight. Angel has had some great stunt doubles but his worst two from what I can think of were in Becoming Part 2 during the sword fight as mentioned above with the hairline and then the other in Lineage. Buffy has had the worst stunt doubles of all and thats sad considering she is the main character! But, I remember on I Love the '90s on VH1, they talk about what a big hit that Buffy was but how bad the stunt doubles were and even slow mo the camera and show you how clear it is. Its very easier to tell early on in the series, like in Bad Girls. It was alright in Chosen, but in End of Days when Caleb slams her off the block, its evident its not her.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 5, 2009 11:40:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree! However, I think it's worth pointing out that the stunt doubles got BAD makeup and hair - as if the makeup artists couldn't look at a picture of David and give the stunt an appropriate wig (and wigs can be made easily by custom wig makers, of which there are many in Hollywood, because there's such a booming business for makeup and stunt doubles, and they don't have to be an expensive "hero" prop, just something that looks acceptable from several feet away in an action scene).
Also, they were filmed from crappy angles. I blame that pretty much on the director of the episodes in question. The fight might've looked good from such and such an angle, and with the camera only so far away, but ignoring the camera angle on the stunt double so you can get a cool shot is a no-no.
If their makeup and hair had been done right the first time, and they were filmed from the angles that stunts are normally filmed at? Wouldn't have been an issue. Well, except for the lunch lady and other glaring problems.
But yeah... the earlier part of the show was plagued by stupid continuity issues like that.
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
Posts: 656
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Post by Nicholas on Jun 5, 2009 13:59:50 GMT -5
I also blame the directing of the fight scenes. When using a double, if you simply HAVE to show the face you make it extremely fast. They would have long shots of the stunt doubles face.
if you notice, when Buffys hair is hanging down and not tied up, the scenes are very good and its hard to see the double.
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gumgnome
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Who has got the button?
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Post by gumgnome on Jun 6, 2009 7:31:22 GMT -5
This is all well and good but does it really count as a "continuity error"? I mean, sure, they probably didn't have enough money to make their stunt doubles properly look the part, but that's like saying it's a continuity error when Lurgos comes out of the sewer in Band Candy because the special effects look crap. It may detract from the quality of the show a bit, but not from the continuity of the plot.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 6, 2009 14:01:55 GMT -5
Continuity error just implies that the continuous flow of the story has been broken because of the error in keeping the story straight, the characters in the right spot, the props where they need to be. Because everything's shot in tons of little scenes, and usually out of order, you usually have someone assigned just to handle Continuity to keep all the people and stuff in every scene exactly how they need to be. Continuity extends into how the scene is filmed, too. If you see a boom mike, or the wrong angle on the stunt double which shows their face when we're never supposed to see their face... it's a continuity error. Oh, and continuity errors also extend to plot and characterizations. "Continuity" is just what it says - it's uninterrupted, or continuous. Hope that helps clear it up a bit. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_(fiction)
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gumgnome
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Who has got the button?
Get out of my BRAIN![Mo0:1]
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Post by gumgnome on Jun 8, 2009 11:20:47 GMT -5
Interesting - thanks for the link. I actually had no idea that the term "continuity" applied to that wide a range of things in film. Karma for setting me straight!
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Nicholas
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
One Good Scare
Tonight I'm Dancing.[Mo0:16]
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Post by Nicholas on Jun 8, 2009 12:57:14 GMT -5
Such as in Season 4, when Buffy finds the demon that Adam strung up to research, and not just the boom mike, but the whole person standing there WITH the boom mike is just standing directly in front of the camera.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 8, 2009 13:16:26 GMT -5
Such as in Season 4, when Buffy finds the demon that Adam strung up to research, and not just the boom mike, but the whole person standing there WITH the boom mike is just standing directly in front of the camera. Yeah! Those are big errors. There are several times in Season 4 that the boom mic is seen, or you suddenly see like borders around the picture. My Film Lecture class was so long ago, so I don't remember what that could be, but I'm guessing the shield they use to block out ambient light from hitting the lens & causing glare. Two scenes I'm thinking of in "Goodbye Iowa". 1 is when Buffy goes to question Willy. There's part of the camera at the bottom of the frame. And 2 is when Buffy and Riley are standing on that hillside, after the police have found that kid's body. The picture suddenly gets round then goes back to normal.
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 8, 2009 13:58:20 GMT -5
Yeah, that camera one in Goodbye Iowa only really shows up if you watch it in widescreen. In the full screen, pan and scan version it actually is less obvious so it might just be a n error that only watching it in 4:3 reveals.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jun 8, 2009 16:07:17 GMT -5
Yeah, that camera one in Goodbye Iowa only really shows up if you watch it in widescreen. In the full screen, pan and scan version it actually is less obvious so it might just be a n error that only watching it in 4:3 reveals. Yeah, I have it in widescreen. I don't remember which season was the first filmed in WS... was it Season 4? Or 5? Of course, I'm holding out hope that one day we'll get it Blu Ray...
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Post by ambersknight on Jun 8, 2009 16:10:33 GMT -5
Season 4 is the first one that they show in widescreen on the box sets but they have widescreen shots from previous seasons so I reckon they must be filmed in that way. But certainly season 4 is the first to release that way.
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 1, 2009 14:51:28 GMT -5
Anyways like I said, you tell me what's wrong here; Ep ; Grave, s6, 31:40ish Buffy's missing her lower torso?
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Post by glorylover on Jul 1, 2009 15:20:29 GMT -5
Thats very very.........odd
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Post by Essentially Yours on Jul 2, 2009 18:07:10 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm not looking in the right area, but is Dawn also missing an arm in that picture? Lol. Maybe it's just in motion. Although this show has a few flaws (what show doesn't?), one of the things that I LOVE is its dialogue continuity. A lot of television shows don't do that. On "Buffy" there's foreshadowing (and after-mentioning ) all over the place. It makes me smile when I see Xander reminiscing about how love spells might not be the best solution or just because Willow's main attention is focussed on magic on the later seasons, she's still known for being the computer wiz. I used to wonder what happened to Miss Kitty Fantastico until Dawn mentioned an anonymous cross bow incident in season seven. Poor Miss Kitty! But yay for continuity!
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Skeptic
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Post by Skeptic on Jul 3, 2009 20:07:12 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't even think of that. I kept looking at the hand, and wondering about it, but it didn't even dawn on me for some reason that they weren't fighting humans in that scene.
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Post by Skytteflickan88 on Jul 4, 2009 16:00:41 GMT -5
In Lullaby, Holtz' kid, Sarah, has bitemarks on her neck. Aren't vamps suppose to instantly heal when they "wake up"? EDIT- A new error, in Sleep Tight, in the scene with the singing chick who goes all demon + green slime-drooly. The green stuff that's coming out of her mouth is applied differently between the sequences(I think that's what it's called, maybe "shoots" is a better word?) In the last shoot it doesn't covers her chin as much as before. EDIT AGAIN- The difference between Connor's and Holtz' accents, even tough one was raised by the other. EDIT EDIT AGAIN- Copied from another thread. Goofs: - The skylight over the library ... ? There has never been light from the ceiling, ever, so why all of a sudden is there a [glow=yellow,2,300]skylight[/glow]? - Buffy hair watch: When she is face down in the water it changes from being on top of her head to loose around her shoulders which we will see happen with both her and Willow throughout the next 6 seasons. - The fact the the library has swinging doors yet they still effectively barricade it.
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Zombierella
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You can't swing a cat without hitting some kind of demonic activity. Not that I swing cats. [Mo0:0]
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Post by Zombierella on Jul 16, 2009 7:16:24 GMT -5
One thing that really bugs me is how when Spike got a soul, he was still Spike, there was no difference at all. Angel is COMPLETELY different. I mean, Angel was cursed with his soul and Spike fought for his, but should there really be a difference. A soul is a soul. Spike should be acting like a broody William, shouldn't he? I underlined the bit that pretty much answers your question. Therein lies the fundamental difference between Angel and Spike. Even before the ensoulment, Spike was already different. He was quasi-good; he fought the good fight because he couldn't hurt people, but demons were fair game. But the even bigger difference lies in the fact that Spike could love, even before having a soul. He loved Drusilla, and Buffy, and in the flashbacks in S7, he even showed love for his mother, whom he turned because he wanted to save her from TB. My point is, Spike already had empathy, sympathy, and love... all qualities that kinda blur the division between the human and demon aspects of being a vampire. Angel has confessed to never having loved as Angelus (I think this was on Angel, though). Even the Judge could sense this, telling Spike and Drusilla that they reeked of humanity. And Spike did act like broody William for a bit. Well, actually, he kinda went crazy right after the ensoulment. But he showed a more introspective side after getting his soul back. Also, if you consider the time frame in which Angel and Spike had time to brood, you'll see that Spike's timeline is a lot shorter. Angel had something like a century to feel remorse and all that, before being given direction by Whistler. Spike on the other hand, had Buffy to pull him out of his funk, a human crutch of sorts. Plus, he was given a mission pretty quick; fight the good fight, save the world. And I agree with Wyndam about the production side of things. My thoughts exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself! =D
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