Messages to Ballard (Spoilers)

[Rebecca]

Also...

SPOILER: Click to show

Alan Tudyk will appear, just not billed as Alpha. It's a set up for the reveal in the season finale Omega, the very next episode.

[Vail]

Hey! I'm also in the team "the mole's still inside". Specially if Dominic was saying the truth in "Spy in the house of love" about his purpose. So, if his reasons were to keep the Dollhouse safe and unknown to the main public, then there's somebody out there who might be the mole trying to destroy the dollhouse. Why then would they sent Mellie as the new messenger?

Moving on, if Dominic was not the inside man (or not the one sending messages), then there are just 2 people left who could have altered the imprint: Ivy and Topher. Mellie's imprint was prepared presumably after Topher found the NSA chip, which means Adelle was out to her weekend with Roger, and Saunders, along with Boyd, were with Echo. This means that either of the programmers could have messed with November's imprint. Since Ivy seems too self-concerned and not such an important character, I'd say Topher has more points to be the Mole. He's obviously doing all the work, so he can't arise any suspicion. In MotS he sent Ivy out to pick him some food while he "the genius" had to modify echo's imprint, which could be his alibi, in case all went to crap. In SitHL he found the NSA could be aware of him using the dolls to contact Ballard, thus putting the Dollhouse secret in danger, so he sends November to him as his last resort in case the government had found out about his doings. And last, in that same episode, he creates the Spyhunter in a way she won't show he's a mole too. That would also explain why his lack of morals, the fact he's actually working towards the end of the Dollhouse.

That came out longer than expected... well, my vote goes for Topher.

[wenxina]

Apr 13, 2009 14:49:04 GMT -5 Vail said:

Mellie's imprint was prepared presumably after Topher found the NSA chip, which means Adelle was out to her weekend with Roger, and Saunders, along with Boyd, were with Echo.

"Mellie" was imprinted before Topher found the NSA chip. Or at least chronologically, what we were shown in that episode. After November had been imprinted, Echo waves at her, and she doesn't recognize Echo, just feels that she knows her from somewhere.
Of the engagements, as far as I can do this from memory, Victor's engagement came first. They met Echo on her way back from the dominatrix gig. Echo was wiped. Then November was imprinted. Then the chip was found, or at least when Topher reports it. Then Sierra's imprinted to go out to get info from the NSA headquarters. Then Topher imprints Echo when she asks to be able to help.

[Vail]

I'm not so sure that's the exact chronology. When they imprint November, Ivy's doing the whole thing while Topher has gone to warn Boyd. It's actually kinda simultaneously. The thing is that it can be argued he or somebody else (e. g. Ivy) had enough time to corrupt Mellie's imprint with the updated information. Anyways, I think the chip was certainly found before November got imprinted, in order for her imprint and Topher and Boyd's conversation to happen at the same time. This means that the chip couldn't have altered the Mellie imprint, so that somebody else must have done it. Since Topher was the only one aware of the NSA chip, he seems the most likely person to be the mole. What are his reasons or if he's working with somebody else inside the Dollhouse - I recall November saying "they" to Ballard refering to the mole(s) - remains a mistery.

Thanks for pointing the chronology out, anyways! It proves me Dominic and the Mole who sent the messages to Ballard are not the same person.

[sarahi]

I just watched "A Spy in the House of Love" again. I'm sure Laurence Dominick was the spy who worked for the NSA. One thing that bothers me, though, is that the NSA clearly wanted the Dollhouse to keep going, they just didn't want the technology in the wrong hands. The messages to Ballard might have been ways to keep him distracted from discovering enough evidence to bring down the Dollhouse. Even Topher knew the purpose of the Dollhouse, but it's a secret elusive enough to keep Ballard spinning his wheels for a while. If he did discover something, Laurence Dominick would have gotten what he wanted all along: Ballard eliminated, whether or not Adelle approved of it. Those messages came from the NSA, but the question is whether or not it would be a good thing for the Dollhouse to fall under the control of people like Laurence Dominick and whoever was imprinted in Sierra for her investigation. I'm not an anti-government person, but I think in the scenario of this last episode it might have been a good thing that Echo saved the Dollhouse.

[wenxina]

vail: Thanks for pointing out that little detail about the simultaneous action... I need to rewatch the scene, but it's much appreciated. *karmas*

[Rebecca]

I still don't think Dominic sent the messages to Ballard. In "Spy in the House of Love," Mellie says that their technology is dangerous, and that he shouldn't talk about the Dollhouse in front of her because both of them could die if the Dollhouse sees. I cannot see this message coming from Dominic.

Also, it is said that Dominic doesn't want to take down the Dollhouse, he wants to protect the technology. Telling Ballard that the Dollhouse is real only aggravated his obsession with it and Caroline, putting the Dollhouse at risk.

Slight nit-pick, they never showed the chip discovery, or explain how the chip got into the chair. But we know for certain that Topher was one of the first people to know, presumably at the same time as Ivy, who immediately imprinted Mellie with the parameter to warn Ballard.

If you watch closely, Mellie was imprinted BEFORE Dominic was alerted.

I also remember specifically after November is imprinted with Mellie that Ivy double-checks the imprint to make sure the primary protocol took. I've totally got my eye on her

[Midnight Butterfly]

I think it was Alpha.

SPOILER: Click to show

My reason is because we find out how much he knows about the Dollhouse and we find out that he knows how to program actives in the next episode

[snizapman6294]

i need to watch the episode again, but Echo (i believe) definitely said it wasn't Alpha... i may be wrong. but i vaguely remember something like that.

[Rebecca]

I don't think they said it wasn't Alpha, but I don't think it was.

Alpha would have to be inside the Dollhouse at least twice without someone recognizing him. Claire, Dominic, Adelle, Topher, and random agents would have recognized him. Even if he could bypass being detected, he'd have to have been there in the imprinting room between the time that the chip was discovered and Mellie imprinted--a crazy-small window. I really don't think it is Alpha sending the messages to Ballard.

EDIT:
Mellie says that "Our person inside has been captured, this is the last time you will hear from us through a doll."

At the time Mellie was imprinted, no one had been captured. I don't think this is so much an error, but just a generic "out" message applied to Mellie's imprint when the mole thought it was likely they would be discovered... which I don't think they ever were. The messages to Ballard were never openly spoken of within the Dollhouse.

[redhead]

I still maintain it was Dominic. The chip was NSA wasn't it? Thats how they knew to send Sierra to the building.

[vampmogs]

I picked Adelle just because of it’s absurdity, which actually makes it all the more likely for me. I think it’s exactly the kind shocking twist this show is capable of. She’s pretty much the last person you would expect to be the mole. I also think she may have some good motivations for doing it;

A) We saw how lonely she was in ‘A House in the Spy of Love’ and said how she’s exhausted and tired of her job. What if this was a way for her to get out? If she can bring the Dollhouse down then maybe there’s a chance she can be free?

B) We have her reference her old job which had to do with stem cell research and I think that gave a great bit of background to her character. It’s also quite common for her to try and rationalise what they’re doing as helping people, it’s what Boyd tries to appeal to in ‘Ghost’ to change her mind and help the little girl. Perhaps she tries to rationalise what she does to live with it until she can bring the house down?

C) Why hasn’t she sent Echo to the attic? I found her explanation a little flaky, “she’s watching out for them?” If she knows what happened when Alpha exhibited the same signs, surely she wouldn’t be so cavalier about Echo? Unless she wants her to escape and bring the Dollhouse down?

[Rebecca]

May 4, 2009 5:18:09 GMT -5 redhead said:

I still maintain it was Dominic. The chip was NSA wasn't it? Thats how they knew to send Sierra to the building.

What conclusions can you make from Dominic being NSA in regards to the messages? His being NSA doesn't make it a necessity that he be the message originator.

[redhead]

Because the technology that was hacking the dolls was NSA technology. They found out their was a spy in the Dollhouse because of the chip Topher found and the chip was planted by Dominic. I believe the messages were a way of keeping Ballard occupied and "off the scent". We saw after Ballard got the message from Echo he turned basically into a crazy recluse who was obsessed with the dollhouse.

[sarahi]

It was Dominick who planted the chip, but it didn't have to be Dominick sending the messages for Dominick to still be the only spy in the Dollhouse. The chip's purpose might have just been to allow the NSA remote access to the doll. November said things to Ballard that she couldn't have if she had been programmed to say them ahead of time, and Echo wouldn't have been able to respond to Ballard's question about Alpha if some programmer wasn't listening to the conversation.

The NSA clearly wanted Ballard distracted, but I think they would do worse to get Ballard and Echo out of the way. They want to acquire the technology, and Ballard and Echo risk exposure of the technology, which would probably ruin some national security uses for it. "Little government oversight" are some key words there.

[Rebecca]

May 4, 2009 13:29:29 GMT -5 redhead said:

Because the technology that was hacking the dolls was NSA technology.

This was never explicitly said. Anyone with access to the imprinting room had the ability to insert those message parameters. The final message was inserted into the Mellie imprint before Dominic was alerted to the "breach in security."

May 4, 2009 13:29:29 GMT -5 redhead said:

I believe the messages were a way of keeping Ballard occupied and "off the scent". We saw after Ballard got the message from Echo he turned basically into a crazy recluse who was obsessed with the dollhouse.

This obsession was the very thing that drove Ballard into the dollhouse. Dominic had kept Ballard running around in circles for 2 years. After the messages came, he dug deeper, in recluse because he knew he was being watched. The messages didn't keep him from finding the dollhouse, they were the impetus behind it.

[Midnight Butterfly]

WOW! You guys definitly know your stuff. Although for some reason I have changed my mind and believe it was Lawrence, Alpha, Lawrence, Alpha, Lawrence.
BRAIN OVERLOAD!!! CANT DECIDE, HELLLPPPP!!!!
LoL!!

[redhead]

May 4, 2009 15:27:34 GMT -5 Rebecca said:

May 4, 2009 13:29:29 GMT -5 redhead said:

Because the technology that was hacking the dolls was NSA technology.

This was never explicitly said. Anyone with access to the imprinting room had the ability to insert those message parameters. The final message was inserted into the Mellie imprint before Dominic was alerted to the "breach in security."

May 4, 2009 13:29:29 GMT -5 redhead said:

I believe the messages were a way of keeping Ballard occupied and "off the scent". We saw after Ballard got the message from Echo he turned basically into a crazy recluse who was obsessed with the dollhouse.

This obsession was the very thing that drove Ballard into the dollhouse. Dominic had kept Ballard running around in circles for 2 years. After the messages came, he dug deeper, in recluse because he knew he was being watched. The messages didn't keep him from finding the dollhouse, they were the impetus behind it.

Hmm, food for thought. I see what your saying but I would say the messages were not the reason he found the dollhouse.

[Rebecca]

I was rewatching Ep #9 today, and had this crazy idea surrounding the chip and watched it probably 8 times today hashing it out. It's pretty long, so please feel free not to read hahaha

EDIT: It looks like Vail has already concluded that the chip couldn't have been used to send the second message to Ballard. *karmas*

Reflections on "The Spy In the House of Love"

If the chip was used to implant the messages into the imprints, how did the final message get into the Mellie imprint? At the moment of discovery, the chip could no longer be used to implant the final message. Some other method must have been used than that chip, be it another chip or a technician with a bail-out message or something else entirely. So what was the chip used for? Is it a coincidence that it was found after Victor's "Roger" imprint that made him in love with Adelle/Katherine which no one except for Adelle knew about?

Scenario: Adelle alters the Roger Imprint for her personal use using the chip. She could have personally escorted Victor to the chair leaving the chip or somehow got the chip on his person before the imprint. Somehow she had the chip be in the chair when Victor was imprinted with Roger without anyone else the wiser. She organizes everyone to believe she is going to a meeting with "higher-ups" at Rossum, giving her the perfect alibi. The chip is left in the chair, where it is found after Echo was wiped. Topher goes to warn Boyd suspiciously leaving Ivy in the imprinting room, alone, when someone gave "Mellie" the message parameter. After "Mellie" is escorted out of the Dollhouse, Topher calls Dewitt, who doesn't answer. Afterwards he alerts Dominic, who's first reaction is to alert his team and shut down communications, and then grab Sierra to be imprinted with NSA Spygirl. Dominic then gets unnecessarily rough with Topher because he knows the chip wasn't his and honestly believed there was a security breach. Not getting satisfactory answers from Topher, he manufactured the "investigation" into the chip, implicating the person he believes is the spy who lost the chip: Ivy; thus eliminating a threat legitimate in his mind to get credit for maintaining order within the Dollhouse by the time Adelle got back.

This scenario is supported by the following facts:

• No one knew the Roger imprint was altered besides Adelle; including Topher who referred to Ms. Lonely Hearts as an octogenarian and Dominic who had that conversation about Rossom and cake with Adelle.
  
• Such chips could be available on the black market
  
• Adelle's egregious use of deception during this episode does not put the scenario out of the realm of possibility.
  
• Dominic didn't come close to the chair when we saw him in the imprint room prior to chip discovery.
  
• The chip was not necessarily belonging to Dominic, even if it was NSA.
  
• The chip itself wasn't necessarily NSA. Yes, it was used to alter an imprint, but even in the episode it isn't concluded the chip was manufactured or even used by the NSA. Topher ran with the assumption it was used by a spy when we clearly know it could have been used for Adelle's non-spy purpose. The first time it is referred to as "NSA tech" was by Dominic who manufactured the entire investigation into the breach.
  
• As said above, it's clear the chip wasn't used to convey the last message to Ballard, and presumably, the first one either.

Also as a matter of personal opinion, I don't think Dominic would implicate the NSA, the company he works for and therefore himself, without a motive to actually reign in a legitimate breach. His mistake was instead of actually investigating, he manufactured the investigation. Had he not done so, perhaps he could have come up with some real evidence and not be exposed. But that's all speculation.

Ivy being the Messenger is supported by the following facts:

• She has access to the equipment
  
• The technical knowledge to do so
  
• Is relatively a recent addition to the Dollhouse
  
• The messages began after Ivy's hiring
  
• She was the technician who imprinted Mellie with the extra message parameter, who double checked the imprint
  
• She was in the imprinting room in the small frame of time when the chip was discovered and Mellie was imprinted
  
• She doesn't know much about the Dollhouse itself (she didn't know what the Attic was)
  
• She is not complacent with the Dollhouse as demonstrated by her interview with Spy Echo (as opposed to Topher who views his role at the Dollhouse with narcissistic pride).

Interestingly, most of the reasons why Ivy is a great suspect for being the Messenger also coincide with reasons why Dominic would suspect her during the breach and choose to implicate her. It would be terribly ironic if Dominic was vindicated again by implicating Ivy who was actually the messenger, but wasn't found out because Dominic himself was a spy. As I have said before, I don't believe Dominic is the Messenger because the Mellie imprint was administered before Dominic was alerted to the security breach.

Whaddya think? Am I completely off my rocker?

[snizapman6294]

wait, how do we know Ivy didnt' know what the attic was again?

by the way, i'm watching dexter season 3 and i saw Liza Lapira (Ivy) and literally screamed in excitement.