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Post by Emmie on Sept 3, 2009 17:49:53 GMT -5
Amy vanished like that because villains are stupid. It was her "Mwahahaha!" moment. It's why Bond villains talk too long or use a super slow laser that's inching up towards his groin. It's arrogance. It's disregard for the capabilities of your enemy.
And really, why should Amy worry? She's just learned that Buffy and Willow and all the Slayers are depowered. The element of surprise is useful when going up against an opponent stronger or equal to you in strength. When an enemy is paltry in strength in comparison, which is true of Buffy vs. Twilight, then the element of terrorizing is even more useful. Slayers are now going to have to fight...without their powers. Look at how terrifying that was for Buffy back in Helpless. All those noob Slayers are currently pissing their pants right now or they're about to mutiny against Buffy for leading them to this eventuality. Either way, Twilight wins.
There's no logical need for Amy to have disappeared quietly and sneakily the way the Vampy Cat did in Swell. Her doing so in this manner shows Twilight and Co's utter disregard for Buffy's power.
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Post by Wyndam on Sept 3, 2009 17:50:53 GMT -5
He was definitely going for presentation and theatrics. Amy was in a room with a bunch of Slayers, Andrew probably didn't even plan on her teleporting away, figuring "making her" in a room full o' Slayers would be enough.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 3, 2009 17:51:40 GMT -5
Ethan, what plot points are worrying you specifically?
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 3, 2009 17:54:32 GMT -5
And really, why should Amy worry? She's just learned that Buffy and Willow and all the Slayers are depowered. The element of surprise is useful when going up against an opponent stronger or equal to you in strength. When an enemy is paltry in strength in comparison, which is true of Buffy vs. Twilight, then the element of terrorizing is even more useful. Slayers are now going to have to fight...without their powers. Look at how terrifying that was for Buffy back in Helpless. All those noob Slayers are currently pissing their pants right now. And probably not thinking too highly of Buffy's leadership. Gee, we all surrendered our powers and left ourselves powerless before our enemies, all so we could buy... what, an extra week or so? The Lesbian Trio were perfectly right in their assessment of the situation.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 3, 2009 17:55:08 GMT -5
Naturally. Lesbian trios are always right. Trufax.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 3, 2009 17:58:19 GMT -5
Ethan, what plot points are worrying you specifically? Same ones that bothered me, he said. And still do. Too much fanwankery is necessary here.
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Post by hitnrun017 on Sept 3, 2009 17:58:28 GMT -5
Ethan, what plot points are worrying you specifically? Your face. But you and Jamie pretty much just quelled my worrisome-ness. Still some scratchy head though. There were just better ways to deal with the AmyCat.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 3, 2009 18:04:24 GMT -5
Ethan, what plot points are worrying you specifically? Same ones that bothered me, he said. And still do. Too much fanwankery is necessary here. From me? Mine was fanwank? Not really seeing it. Curious to see how you'd call it fanwank. It's a fact of the 'verse that villains do stupid moves. That villains laugh mockingly in the face of the heroes. That villains underestimate the heroes. It's why the villains lose often times. It's one of the oldest storytelling tropes - pride goeth...
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 3, 2009 19:11:44 GMT -5
From me? Mine was fanwank? Not really seeing it. Curious to see how you'd call it fanwank. It's a fact of the 'verse that villains do stupid moves. That villains laugh mockingly in the face of the heroes. That villains underestimate the heroes. It's why the villains lose often times. It's one of the oldest storytelling tropes - pride goeth... Specifically, fanwank to explain how Andrew knew the cat was Amy, and how Amy knew he knew. None of that was made clear in the comic. A lot of figuring out, assuming, and explaining was needed. But I'm being a bitch about this issue, and I apologize. I want to love this issue as much as everyone else, and I really do love all the character stuff. Any issue that features a Buffy/Faith reconciliation is okay with me. I need to take my hand off the brake and let the fun train roll. I over-analyze these stories far too much. The looong periods of time between installments doesn't help, but I need to do better.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 3, 2009 19:32:19 GMT -5
I actually don't think Andrew knew the cat was Amy. I was just saying that on AIM to Wyndam. And really, Andrew knowing it was Amy wasn't important. From a thematic viewpoint, I see that scene as Andrew's confession. He called the meeting solely to explain why he was being so sketchy and letting go of his distrustful stance in order to restore trust. The issue is all about establishing and breaking trust.
Amy merely poofed because she'd gotten all the intel she needed and left. And she didn't care who would see her because what are they gonna do? Wet themselves now that Twilight is coming? This is the enemy that was whooping their asses when they had superpowers. Yeah, now that Amy knows they're devoid of magic and powers, she'd definitely just poof out of there without any worries once she'd listened in on all the conversation she wanted to hear.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 3, 2009 19:46:50 GMT -5
Amy merely poofed because she'd gotten all the intel she needed and left. And she didn't care who would see her because what are they gonna do? Wet themselves now that Twilight is coming? This is the enemy that was whooping their asses when they had superpowers. Yeah, now that Amy knows they're devoid of magic and powers, she'd definitely just poof out of there without any worries once she'd listened in on all the conversation she wanted to hear. While Amy may not have any respect for a down-powered Buffy & Co., I don't think Twilight would share that view. If he knows Buffy half as well as he claims, he knows that counting her out before the fight even starts, and underestimating her resourcefulness has not led to happy times for her previous enemies. Handing Buffy any unnecessary advantage is not a smart play. The things Twilight's said before suggest that he knows and respects her abilities. Considering how quick he is to murder his employees for real or assumed mistakes, I really wonder why Twilight tolerates so much of this ham-fisted crap from Amy and Warren.
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slayerette
Innocent Bystander
There aren't a lot of people that I love[Mo0:1]
Posts: 32
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Post by slayerette on Sept 3, 2009 23:19:31 GMT -5
Just a thought: Maybe Amy was there holding down the fort and doing recon until Twilight showed up? If Amy could insert herself into the group in Tibet, Twilight had to know where Team Buffy was for as long as Amy did. I'm thinking she was just hanging around, making sure they didn't go anywhere else before Twilight and his army buddies got there. Now that he's in the vicinity, it's time for her to rejoin the bad guys and get a good seat from which to watch the carnage.
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deathisyourgift
Ensouled Vampire
to read makes our speaking English good!
Timothy Dalton should win an Oscar and beat Sean Connery over the head with it!!-Andrew[Mo0:37]
Posts: 1,166
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Post by deathisyourgift on Sept 3, 2009 23:28:04 GMT -5
Alright, I realize I'm posting late in the game (12 pages in), but I'm gonna start off with something that needs no reply, as I'm sure it's being discussed somewhere else: XANDER AND DAWN?>!?!??! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! epic fail...ok now that's out, I'm going to continue with your discussion of the power-lacking slayers and Amy's not-so-slick vanishing act. I agree that she disregards secrecy because of the slayers all being severely under-powered (thanks a lot Oz, way to have a baby and go all zen on us!), but the thing about Andrew knowing about Amy I think is just fan supposition. I think he was going to say he didn't know, and Amy just revealed herself at a convenient time.
As for the rest of the issue, I was confused...a lot. I held off on reading 27 in order to read it together with 28, but that didn't really help. Why are Dawn and Xander looking at mines? Where is Andrew going with his storyteller redux? And good lord, how on earth would Buffy suddenly want to diminish her powers?! Let alone the powers of her entire slayer army!?!? I don't get the motive behind that at all. Buffy has always been about strength, and I don't just mean physically. If her urge to follow Oz's suggestion is making her army unhappy, that makes them weak (as a team), and she would not want this. It just doesn't make sense to me.
Here are the things I liked: Warren and Amy bickering in the background. Riley being....well, Riley <3. The little hints that the cat was not just a typical cat (Willow's scene with Oz). Oh, and I liked that Willow flared and got all dark-eyed in a moment of passion.
Quick question: The three lesbians (Lesbian Trio as I read lol), is that the three slayers who Andrew interviewed when they all said they hated the new training? And if so, I saw Kennedy, Satsu, and who was the third girl with reddish looking hair? Is the resemblance ambiguous or am I missing an obvious character?
Great discussion going on, hopefully the rest of Retreat will make more sense out of the confusing parts.
-Jen
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 3, 2009 23:57:26 GMT -5
As for the rest of the issue, I was confused...a lot. I held off on reading 27 in order to read it together with 28, but that didn't really help. Why are Dawn and Xander looking at mines? Xander and Dawn are in charge of the non-magical defenses being set up around the monastery. Which might slow down Twilight's army a bit, if they somehow forget to bring along any of their fully-powered spellcasters. Where is Andrew going with his storyteller redux? And good lord, how on earth would Buffy suddenly want to diminish her powers?! Let alone the powers of her entire slayer army!?!? I don't get the motive behind that at all. Buffy has always been about strength, and I don't just mean physically. Twilight is able to locate the Slayers by homing in on their magic. Buffy thought that by using Oz's werewolf-suppressing meditation methods to suppress their Slayer magic, they could hide from Twilight until... well, she wasn't sure what. In reality it bought the Slayers a very brief respite, at the cost of leaving them totally vulnerable to Twilight's attack. Since their magic is suppressed and they can't get it back quickly enough, they're going to have to defend themselves against elite military units, demons, and powerful spellcasters armed only with guns that they don't really know how to use, and without their Slayer powers. They're going to get massacred. Not Buffy's finest decision. Compared to this, the Vineyard attack looks like Washington crossing the Delaware. Quick question: The three lesbians (Lesbian Trio as I read lol), is that the three slayers who Andrew interviewed when they all said they hated the new training? And if so, I saw Kennedy, Satsu, and who was the third girl with reddish looking hair? Is the resemblance ambiguous or am I missing an obvious character? That's Senior Lesbian Willow.
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Darth Rosie
Ensouled Vampire
I do doodle
Keeper of Didacity [? Astray][Mo0:12]
Posts: 1,392
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Post by Darth Rosie on Sept 4, 2009 2:10:10 GMT -5
That's Senior Lesbian Willow. I don't know why I find this SO funny, but I keep giggling.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Sept 4, 2009 8:44:55 GMT -5
Is it a coincidence that the Lesbian Trio are the three people most concerned with not letting go of their strength? I can't help but notice that the last time we saw 100% in-control, competent, confident Buffy was right after she got out of bed with Satsu. No sooner did she have her bathrobe on than she was busy assessing the situation, and formulating plans. Plans that relied on the Slayers' greatest strengths, and which worked beautifully from a strategic standpoint (despite the very unfortunate losses of Renee and Aiko). In "Wolves at the Gate" we saw Buffy at her Queen Slayer best. Strong, decisive, smart, and caring. Then she killed Willow... rammed a stake through the heart of the lesbian goddess... and it's like everything drained out of her at that point. Since that point, she's been all about running, hiding, giving in... retreating. So, it's time Buffy had another talk with Satsu. (But you all knew I was going to say that. )
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BlueJay
Descendant of a Toaster Oven
Resident Charmed Fan[Mo0:12]
Posts: 631
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Post by BlueJay on Sept 4, 2009 9:03:11 GMT -5
The arc's not over yet, so chill =) I'm pretty sure we'll find out soon enough why Amy poofed when she did. This is absolutely my favorite issue in a while and this arc is definitely shaping up the season.
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Post by Emmie on Sept 4, 2009 10:56:00 GMT -5
While Amy may not have any respect for a down-powered Buffy & Co., I don't think Twilight would share that view. Twilight is more careful in his actions, but like you suggest, Amy runs on a not-so-short least. So it's all Amy here. I also think it's safe to say that 'Lesbian Sex' among Slayers will NOT be the literal answer on how to fight and defeat Twilight. This isn't a Laurel K Hamilton book, haha. As for Buffy being focused after her encounter with Satsu, that had nothing to do with sex (which by the way, fuzzes up the mind - "Wow. Just wow.") and everything to do with Buffy's determination and own focus. The three lesbians being vocal works better as a metaphor for how you must stay true to yourself and not try to force yourself to change just so you can fit in with humanity/hegemony. It's a metaphor for identity that references sexuality, but in reality nothing to do with the real life application of that sexuality. Btw, I'm assuming your mostly kidding, AC. Just might read as confusing to someone else.
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Post by wytchcroft on Sept 4, 2009 10:57:16 GMT -5
some quickies to add:
How much does Willow know that we don't know??
In the outdoor scene with Buffy - who was Amy, the yak or the bird? Could one of the animals been Willow?
What else went down with Warren in the catacombs i wonder...
Why do i keep wondering about the stuff under the ground in issue 5... maybe the talk about magic flowing into the earth???
did i say flowing? maybe i should have said DRAINING - doesn't Oz seem kinda evil??
nice touch that Andrew goes spying to look for a spy. Just wish they'd called it 'A Spy in the House of Oz'. What was Buffy on about with Faith - all that 'every life counted' stuff, was she high? i mean - Faith??? Every life? Pardon my otherwise well suspended disbelief.
Love this issue - and don't understand the people getting squicky about Xander and Dawn. At all.
ps - Willow "Now we can all have futures." Oh what has she done...
Giles, disheveled much? Why??? I get the tension, the deep thinking, but all the same...
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Post by wenxina on Sept 4, 2009 11:20:14 GMT -5
Then she killed Willow... rammed a stake through the heart of the lesbian goddess... and it's like everything drained out of her at that point. Since that point, she's been all about running, hiding, giving in... retreating. So, it's time Buffy had another talk with Satsu. (But you all knew I was going to say that. ) I think Buffy's current state has less to do with the lack of HGOG than the fact that she did kill her best friend in the future. The guilt itself is monumental. Her actions... classic case of overwhelmed-itis. Then, there's the hope that she may be able to change things... this whole "let the magic flow through you deal" probably sounded like a good idea. If there's no magic... then hey, Willow can't go dark again... or so the train of thought goes. I don't think Buffy needs to talk to Satsu, I think she needs to sit down and think. She did that in "The Weight of the World", and she did it again in S7 during her little stint away from the role of leader.
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