Paul
Ensouled Vampire
[Mo0:34]
Posts: 1,173
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Post by Paul on Feb 14, 2010 18:12:19 GMT -5
I think it would be really great for season 8 to not be compared to any of the show’s TV seasons. The art of any comic books in general is really different than the art of a TV show. I really love both medias but they are just too different to compare, it’s not right. Can you compare a novel and a song? But for what is worth, Buffy was one of the best TV shows I have ever seen. It was truly genius, a TV in its absolute best. And Season 8 is definitely not one of the best comics I have read, not even close. And I find it really sad, because Joss is the writer of Astonishing X-men – a series that is as great for a comic book as Buffy is for a TV shows. I agree that TV and comics are extremely different mediums and it's unfair to compare them in the same ways. In fact, a lot of Season Eight's criticisms stem from people approaching it like a television season, and the series itself trying to emulate one. That said, I disagree with the second part of your statement. The first 20 issues of S8 were as good as any comic book I've ever read. However, it's definitely become sloppy and mediocre since #21, despite a few shining moments here and there (the Xander/Buffy talk in "Turbulence"). Oh, and Astonishing X-Men is grossly overrated IMO and certainly poorer than early S8. I'd say Fray has been Joss' best comic work to date, probably because he created that world himself, specifically for the medium.
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Kratos
Potential Slayer
[Mo0:15]
Posts: 190
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Post by Kratos on Feb 14, 2010 18:50:49 GMT -5
I'd say Fray has been Joss' best comic work to date, probably because he created that world himself, specifically for the medium. Agreed, i really hope Joss will continue Fray's story in the future. And while it works perfectly as a comic, i could also see it doing well as an animated movie/series.
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Post by Tyler Austin "tiewashere" on Feb 14, 2010 20:12:35 GMT -5
The thing that held Season 8 back for me in the beginning was the transformation and adjustment that came with Buffy continuing in comic book form. It's unfortunate, but from starting as a viewer and experiencing realistic reactions to certain events to going to a comic book where they have 22 pages to create an episode like feel. The emotional moments have to be stripped down to barely anything which took me off guard at first. But once I made the transition, Season 8 turned out to be one hell of a ride. The transition was very confusing and hard to take in, but once I did...this season turned out to be right up on par (so far) with the previous seasons of Buffy. The closer we get to the end, the more I see foreshadowing that made Season 2-7 so wonderful. I think its excellent, in conclusion.
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Post by lightandmagic on Feb 15, 2010 5:16:10 GMT -5
I do not enjoy Season 8 in almost any way ever. I gave up on it at after Wolves at the Gate. I read plot summaries of current issues and am always happy to find that the issue does not sound that good so therefore I don't have to spend my money on it.
I did not enjoy The Long Way Home, for many reasons, namely giant Dawn, Warren being alive and Amy dating him for some reason (yes Amy is a bit deranged, but come on, she can do better than Warren).
But I decided, it's a different format, I'll just have to give it some time. No Future For You came around and I actually really enjoyed the whole Faith and Giles plot line and Faith becoming a social worker Slayer.
And then Wolves at the Gate came along, Renee died (what was the point of spending so much time on her, and then barely even grieving her death) and mecha Dawn came in and I pledged that I would not buy another issue.
It seems to have just gone downhill from there. I feel like Season 8 is trying way too hard to be outlandish, weird, wacky and over the top because it's a comic. Especially the over the top-ness. And in it's desperation to do this it's just churned out some awful plot ideas in my opinion, ie., Giant Dawn, vampy cats, vampires in/slayers out.
And don't even get me started on the whole Buffy suddenly liking Xander thing. I can understand Xander and Dawn; looking back at season 7 (especially Potential), I can see where that comes from. But Buffy has never and should never like Xander.
I am hoping these last issues do some miracle work. =/
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Tea - Total
Bad Ass Wicca
?The hardest thing in this world is to ...live in it....? [Mo0:4]
Posts: 2,118
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Post by Tea - Total on Feb 17, 2010 17:34:10 GMT -5
I want the first to be the big bad , i would found that to be an interesting to read.
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cutiepatootie
Common Vampire
lay waste to the world, and everything in it[Mo0:0]
Posts: 87
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Post by cutiepatootie on Feb 20, 2010 4:39:48 GMT -5
I'm with the Satsu girl. If all I get out of these comics is the creation and arc of her character, then it's been worth it in my eyes.
Although, I'm sure I've just committed high treason in Buffyfan terms here.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 7, 2010 16:43:18 GMT -5
In two words: no. Oh, wait--that's just one word, isn't it? Damn, my maths are just not so much... I agree with a lot of what's already been said here: the sort of wandering, directionless nature of the series at times (a problem that S7 also had), certain characters returning for little more than the "OMG!" factor (Ethan, Amy, Warren, Riley, and even Oz), the utter ridiculousness of Xander/Dawn, etc. But I think the thing that's really been bothering me ever since Twilight first started rationalizing his actions in #11 is the idea that what Buffy did in "Chosen" was a mistake. If you go all the way back to the beginning, right back to S1, Buffy was always a character who embodied the idea of female empowerment. She showed that a girl could kick as much ass as any guy, and the series ended on such a wonderful expansion of that idea, with her sharing that ability, in effect saying, "Hey, this isn't just something that's limited to me-- you can do it, too." Then the next season starts, and we're told that this was actually a bad thing. Am I crazy, or is this just totally subverting the message of the entire series? The idea that female empowerment is bad, and there's only room in the world for one or two strong women, and all the others have gotta go? Granted, we haven't heard the final word on things yet, and it's possible Twilight will turn out to be 100% wrong about that, and by the final issue Buffy's decision in "Chosen" will be totally reaffirmed... but by the sound of things, I'm not optimistic about that. Either way, I think I would've rather had a little time first to enjoy the slayer army as a good thing before having it so completely called into question. Maybe a short S8 (12 issues or so) similar to S3, about some random guy who had an evil scheme brewin' that the slayers needed to race against time and overcome some odds to stop. Then launch into this storyline as S9. And did I read somewhere that Vi, Rona, and Chao-Ahn were among the slayers killed in a recent issue? If so, I can't help feeling like that's just one big giant kick in the crotch. They were so frustrating in S7 because of the amount of screentime they took away from the characters we'd rather have been seeing, but the one thing that made it slightly worth it in the end was that they became slayers. To just turn around and kill them off in the very next season makes S7 even harder to take... unless you're like me, and just resolve to ignore the comics, and decide that canon ends where the screen fades to black on "Chosen" and "Not Fade Away". "The Chain", NFFY, and WatG were all somewhere between awesome and brilliant, so it's just too bad that the rest of the season didn't measure up to those levels...
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patxshand
Ensouled Vampire
Writer/director/Amy Acker's husband.[Mo0:0]
Posts: 1,918
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Post by patxshand on Mar 7, 2010 17:32:46 GMT -5
Brad Meltzer and Joss Whedon's latest work have shown that it's not the storyline that was bad. It was just the writing. The disjointedness and BELIEVE-ME-THIS-HAPPENED-OFF-SCREEN!ness of the "Predators and Prey" arc and the overall badness of most of the "Retreat" arc, when compared the the sheer awesomery of everything since the Willow one-shot proves that.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 7, 2010 17:51:50 GMT -5
And did I read somewhere that Vi, Rona, and Chao-Ahn were among the slayers killed in a recent issue? Where did you read that? Since it's impossible to tell at the moment. There were a bunch of Slayers killed around the world, but they were nameless (and for the most part, faceless). So either someone's trying to stir crap up, or they're making crap up, and either way, it's crappy of them.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 7, 2010 18:15:23 GMT -5
And did I read somewhere that Vi, Rona, and Chao-Ahn were among the slayers killed in a recent issue? Where did you read that? Since it's impossible to tell at the moment. There were a bunch of Slayers killed around the world, but they were nameless (and for the most part, faceless). So either someone's trying to stir crap up, or they're making crap up, and either way, it's crappy of them. Well, that's a small comfort, then--thanks for setting me straight on that. Still sucks that so many have been killed, but it would somehow be even worse if it had been ones that so much time had already been invested in. That probably makes me sound heartless, but no more so than Buffy herself. I read it in the thread here for whichever issue that was--#31 or 32. I'm betting that whoever said it probably just assumed more than what was actually there--I don't think there was anything malicious in it. We've all seen cases over the years of fans jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions, right? "Release" (AtS S4)--Angel bites Faith right at the end, and all you see is about 1.5 seconds of him sinking his teeth into her neck, yet I still remember going online the night it originally aired and seeing someone say, "Wow, so Faith is a vampire now." Umm... ?
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Executrix
Initiative Soldier
[Mo0:25]
Posts: 323
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Post by Executrix on Mar 7, 2010 18:25:04 GMT -5
We've all seen cases over the years of fans jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions, right? "Release" (AtS S4)--Angel bites Faith right at the end, and all you see is about 1.5 seconds of him sinking his teeth into her neck, yet I still remember going online the night it originally aired and seeing someone say, "Wow, so Faith is a vampire now." Umm... ? Or when people assumed in The Body episode that Dawn gradually moving her hand closer to Joyce's body was symbolising how she would heal her with her "magical key like powers".
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Mar 7, 2010 18:34:26 GMT -5
I will enjoy season 8 if the last couple arcs stay true to Buffy and Twilight while explaining why he did what he did throughout the season. It just needs to be believable. The explanation we're given now is crap.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 7, 2010 22:19:33 GMT -5
The explanation given now is just the beginning of the real explanation. More to come...
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Joe
Wise-cracking Sidekick
Obsessive Paranoid Boob
"Gypsies are filthy people! We shall speak of zem no more!" *spits* -Ilona Costa Bianchi[Mo0:0]
Posts: 2,786
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Post by Joe on Mar 8, 2010 6:39:11 GMT -5
The explanation given now is just the beginning of the real explanation. More to come... I know. I'm just saying it could be like the end of Dollhouse where we find out Boyd is the big bad in the second to last episode. That whole week we were hoping we didn't have to assume he was pretending the whole time because that would be bad and we were promised an explanation. What did we get? Exactly what we thought from the previous episode. Sorry for the Dollhouse bashing, I love the show.
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Post by henzINNIT on Mar 8, 2010 8:03:04 GMT -5
I too hope Angel doesn't get Boyd'ed (screwed over that is); I'm also worrying a bit about a large, Connor-shaped hole in this story that may bother me greatly when all is said and done.
IDW are screwed. I wonder what kind of things they're going to do to bridge these stories, maybe they can deliver a satisfying story on the LA side of things.
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 8, 2010 8:33:46 GMT -5
Where did you read that? Since it's impossible to tell at the moment. There were a bunch of Slayers killed around the world, but they were nameless (and for the most part, faceless). So either someone's trying to stir crap up, or they're making crap up, and either way, it's crappy of them. Well, at one point there was concern that all the Slayers had been slaughtered, apart from the ones in Tibet with Buffy. I know I thought so for a little while. I think it came from thinking that Willow was finding dead Slayers at random, rather than looking for the ones who needed help the most. Hopefully, those named Slayers have all been forgotten by Joss until this season is safely over. Of course, something is going to happen to all the Slayers this season. Either they won't be Slayers anymore, or they won't be on this plane anymore, or they won't be alive anymore. Knowing that, I hope Joss decides to remove their supernatural powers but have them win the day anyway, thanks to their own inner strength and courage. That would actually be an even better feminist message, as it removes the reliance on forces outside the self -- right now, you could make the argument that it's the magic that's strong, not the women. However, I expect that battle will result in the loss of some familiar faces. I'd be profoundly surprised if it doesn't.
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alex_krycek
Rogue Demon Hunter
keeper of the x-files
sorry, i just remembered seeing king ralph[Mo0:30]
Posts: 484
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Post by alex_krycek on Mar 8, 2010 8:55:34 GMT -5
i think the story is doing well so far, but i think the best is yet to come. i'm not super excited about the buffy/angel love story, but the secret that giles and angel both know is killing me right now.
i think i posted on this board earlier that the series was ok. call me a hypocrite, but i think that things really picked up when joss wrote turbulance. and now i'm fully onboard 173% and anxious for the final issues.
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El Diablo Robotico
Ensouled Vampire
Robo Pimp-Daddy
"Surely you have heard about our great victory over the Devil's Robot."[Mo0:3]
Posts: 1,199
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Post by El Diablo Robotico on Mar 9, 2010 3:40:06 GMT -5
Knowing that, I hope Joss decides to remove their supernatural powers but have them win the day anyway, thanks to their own inner strength and courage. That would actually be an even better feminist message, as it removes the reliance on forces outside the self -- right now, you could make the argument that it's the magic that's strong, not the women. Yeah, but then that's Joss's own fault for crafting the mythology the way he did. He could just as easily have made Buffy a girl who had a black belt in martial arts, or just an innate fighting ability, and used that to kill vampires and demons--no supernatural powers whatsoever. But instead he went the Superman/X-Men route. The magic was a core part of the original empowerment--it can't then be looked at as a negative getting in the way of future empowerment, just because that might suddenly make for a convenient excuse for clearing the board of all these excess characters...
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Post by AndrewCrossett on Mar 9, 2010 8:30:38 GMT -5
By giving Buffy and the other Slayers superpowers to begin with, though, he leaves open the storyline of being able to rise above the loss of those powers. Joss is a humanist, which means he believes in RL that people find their power within, not without, and that those external powers (good or bad) are at best training wheels, and at worst shackles.
I can't help but think that's where he intends Buffy's story to go ultimately.
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Post by wenxina on Mar 9, 2010 8:33:08 GMT -5
However, it's been made explicit time and again, that it's not the Slayer that's the feminist icon, but rather Buffy. The Slayer may have all kinds of kung-fu skills that would make Jet Li jealous, but she was always under the command of a patriarchal system. It was Buffy who flouted tradition, and therefore, the woman, and not the Slayer was the feminist icon.
And at the moment, I don't think that anyone has actually come out to flat-out say that empowering all those girls was a mistake. S8 is dealing with the repercussions, both positive and negative of sharing that power. The connection, the sisterhood... that's all good. But what about when people abuse that power? What happens when a minority comes into power? The closest anyone has come into saying it's a bad thing is Angel, and even then, all he says is that Buffy changed the balance in power. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Every revolution that has happened in history was a shift in the balance of power. Who really knows how Joss will end this? He could change the rules again, or he could find another way to reconcile the future with the present.
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